| Author | Message | ||
     Yardbird |
Tripper, I have the 8110 instruction sheet with me at work today. What's your fax #. email me with it johnb@mediatechnics.com JB | ||
| Rocketman |
H-Block : After reading all your posts I think you're not seeing the woods for the trees. This might sound real stupid but try it. Install NEW plugs. Not even ones you might have bought recently. Start a fresh, NGK are the best. IMHO. Mmm, maybe I should copyright that little slogan. Start a fresh, NGK's are the best Rocket in England | ||
| S2no1 |
Hmm, Just why do the plugs foul so easily on a Buell. The 6R12 is too hot, but doesn't foul. The 10R12 is the right temp, but fouls. Things that make you go HMMM. Rocket, Copyright that slogan now and then sell to an ad Agency. Arvel | ||
| H_Man |
Thanks again for all for your suggestions. I've printed them and will keep them handy should this happen again. Rocket, I'll look to pick up the NGKs for my next plug change. Like Arvel noted, this bike fouls a plug really fast. I was talking about all my woes at the local BRAG mtg on Tuesday when someone made the keen and insightful observation that since I am still under warranty, I should to take the bike to the dealer. Hell! Duh! Why hadn't I thought of that? Certainly by the third day with no luck. I utilized the tow option offered through BRAG and had the bike towed to my dealer yesterday. Rocketman, you may be pleased to know that the crew at the dealership also though new plugs would be the answer. They changed the plugs and got the same results I have been getting. When I left, they were muttering something about there probably being something wrong with the fuel delivery system. Hmmmm. Anyway, they'll probably yank the carb and clean the jets, etc. I'll let you all know the final outcome. I'll also do a few burnt offerings so I can get the bike back quickly. H-man | ||
| Jerome |
Arvel : I think that plugs foul quickly on Buells because people use too much the enrichener or have a tendancy to make the carburetion too rich. The standard thinking is : because one changes something and put some "performance" stuff like new aircleaner and new muffler, the Buell should become too lean and one should increase its main jet by 10 or 15 points. IMHO it's wrong. My own experience using my air/fuel ratio gauge and O2 sensor says that a Force aircleaner in lieu of the OEM breadbox made actually my carburetion far RICHER.... I had to decrease the main jet from 195 to 175 to have my bike run at its best at WOT. Now that I have a Mikuni HSR42, it's the same. I started with the standard 160 main jet and my Buell feels far better at WOT with a 155. This tendancy was confirmed to me a few days ago by my Buell mechanic who uses to install Mikuni on Harleys. Food for thoughts... | ||
| Aaron |
Jerome: What's the elevation there? I'm at 5300' here. My Mikuni equipped S1 wants a 152.5 (hot weather) to 157.5 (cold weather). Hp is mid 90's. My M2, also with a Mikuni, has a 155 to 160 range, depending on the weather. Hp is low 80's. When it still had it's original CV it wanted a 185 in hot weather (never checked it cold). My S2, with it's stock CV, wants a 180 in hot weather (again I've never checked it cold). Hp is mid 80's. We figure Don's S3 wants a 150 to 155, depending on the weather. At least it wanted a 155 on a cold day. Same elevation. Hp is mid 80's. The LSR bike likes 137.5's on hot days and 142.5's on cold days. But it changes quite a bit between sitting still on the dyno at 5300' and ripping down the salt at 4200'. All of these jet numbers were determined with a dyno, not an a/f gauge. Side note ... if I run it even a little bit lean, the Mikuni tells me loud and clear. It'll pull harder just short of full throttle than it does at full throttle. That'll happen if I have the jetting perfect and the temp drops even 20 degrees F. The CV doesn't send the message as clearly, for whatever reason. The Mikuni is a terrific carb, even if it doesn't add much power to a stock motor. Saves a lot of time on the dyno fer sure. Don't ignore those half sizes ... 152.5, 157.5, etc ... they're definitely worthwhile for dialing it in. AW | ||
| Jasonl |
Jetting 98 S3 (stock) made me wish for 1/2 sizes on the CV jets. A 190 is too rich and a 185 seems too lean. It is strange though. The 185 jet coughs sporadically in the lower RPM ranges while the 190 is too rich in the upper ranges. I really could use a 185.5 | ||
| Rocketman |
Yeah dudes, I find with the Mik that sometimes after a few days of non use, it is easier to flood the motor at cold start. Then, no matter what, the plugs have to come out and get dried. I'm told Mik's are like this. Having said that, since I started using an Optimate, I've not had the flooding problem occur........yet  I'm at sea level and run a 165, I think . I'll check anyway. Rocket in England | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Hmm, I've got the 165 in my mikuni with a race header/IDS at 15 disks, am at sea level, temps are almost always between 45 and 80 here in SD. Have not dialed it in on a dyno, but it sure feels about right. I have NEVER fouled a plug, and in fact have 7K on the oroginal 10R12s I put in. These things foul plugs for everyone? Niether of my bikes have. Al | ||
| Jerome |
Aaron : I'm at 600 ft elevation, so not far from sea level. I've tested the 152.5 on my Mikuni but it's too lean. The 160 is too rich. I have to test the 157.5 which seats on my bench right now. I also had to lower the jet needle by one notch. I'll test soon the 98 needle (standard is 97) because my 1/8-1/4 throttle seems a bit too rich. For the slow jet, the standard 25 is too small on my bike and I'll test soon the 30. Like Al, I'm running the race header and SuperTrapp IDS with 15 disks. You're right about the Mikuni being a terrific carb. I doubted that before, expecting that it would make the bike too sensitive to throttle opening and creating often too lean conditions right after opening the throttle. Actually, according to my a/f ratio gauge, this happens but for a very short period of time (maybe a second at most). The accelerator pump helps to limit this effect. I've tuned the latter so that it would start working at 1/4 throttle and stop at 3/4 throttle. So far so good. As you say, no spectacular increase in power but a bike which reacts fast and well, and an easiness of tuning compared with the CV carb. Regarding this question of rich jetting, I should once fill a small tank of gasoline in the USA and use it here for comparison... Maybe the energy efficiency of european and american fuel is significantly different. We have more aromatics in our fuel here. | ||
| Mikej |
Jerome, There are a lot of variations in our fuels here, both seasonally and regionally. Should make for an interesting cross-country ride this summer. "Hmmm, should I get the gasahol in 50 miles, or should I fuel up with the summer blend and hope I can stretch the gas to the next gas station." Anybody have any advice on fuel choices? Or just run the premium regardless of the blend. What's the best way to get a 300+ mile range on a Buell anyway? MikeJ (thinking of getting a few fuel bottles at REI, or maybe springing for a fuel-cell like the IronButt folks use) | ||
| Buellzebub |
Mikej: the only way to get 300 miles/tank is to put it int the back of a truck and haul it like the "enthusiasts" going to daytona/sturgis to parade their shiny toys. i get between 120 and 150 miles before i have to start looking for a filling station [s1 small tank]large tank should be good for another 40-50 miles | ||
| Mikej |
Yep, I think I've put just over 5 gallons in my tank once, hit the station on fumes, think it took 5.1 gallons. I usually get 46-53mpg, sometimes hit 55mpg, so I can get 200 miles fairly comfortably if I ain't bucking a headwind, but hit reserve around 140 miles since I haven't pruned the tank's petcock tube yet. I'm going to do a mpg test today to see what my current gas use is. Should be riding at least 200 miles after work if things go as planned. | ||
| Travis |
When i first got my S3 in Aug '97, and the following spring, i routinely got near 225 on a tank of fuel before switching to reserve. After i put the Thunderstorm Heads and Pistons on, the MPG drop to about 195, and has continued down to about 150-165 now. Sucks. Trav | ||
| Jerome |
Yes MikeJ, in Europe as well fuel composition changes at least seasonally, but as far as I know the restriction on percentage of carcinogenic aromatics in fuel is less strong here than in the USA. I don't know how it goes up exactly now because the European commission has been working on stronger restrictions. Anybody who would be a specialist of that and who could give us some valid numbers ? I may be wrong on this point but it's a possibility that our carb tuning has to be different on each side of the Atlantic because of fuel composition. I'm always amazed to read on this forum that some folks require a main jet of 200 in their CV carb and I'd like to understand why. Under identical atmospheric conditions, with the same heads, same aircleaner, same cams and same exhaust, the amount of air travelling through two Buell engines from intake to exhaust should be the same for both, and therefore the jetting, providing that we use the same fuel... | ||
| Jasonl |
Altitude relative to sea lvl? If that changed drastically (like in Denver) wouldn't that affect jetting? | ||
| Rippin |
Jasonl: You say "cough sporadically at lower rpm" What throttle position are you at? Sounds more like pilotjet(slowjet) or needle position than it does main jet. Just a thought. Aaron? Jerome: You said your 1/8-1/4 is too rich but yet your going to go up a size on the pilot to a 30. You also say you have no acc. pump action till 1/4 throttle. I'm no expert but am I missing something here? Aaron: On your M2 if I may ask what would your # pump nozzle and pilot be? I have a 99M2 and mine seems to be happiest with the 22.5 pilot and 50 pump nozzle. 157.5-160 depending on weather flucts. Also I don't remember seeing you on your M2 at the past Homecoming B-trax. Thanks Ryan | ||
| Jml |
It seems that the Part Numbers for jetting kits change from 98 and earlier M2's to 99 and later. What is the difference? Would the jetting recommendations at the top of this page change significantly? Thanks | ||
| Jerome |
Ryan : I say that my pilot jet is too small because at idle I have to turn out the idle mixture screw by only half of a turn from fully closed position in order to have the right mixture. This means that I have to put a bigger slow jet. In the 1/8-1/4 throttle domain, what affects most the a/f ratio is the needle straight diameter and the air jet. In the 1/4-3/4 throttle domain, this is the taper part of the needle which affects the mixture, therefore the fact that I lowered it by one notch in order to have the correct mixture in this domain. Therefore the future try of a 98 needle instead of a 97 for the 1/8-1/4 domain, as its straight diameter is slightly bigger than the 97 one. The reason why I have tuned the accelator pump so that it would open only at 1/4 throttle is because my carburetion is rich enough when I twist the throttle between 0 and 1/4 and because I look for best fuel economy in this domain of throttle position which is the most often used when cruising. Is it clearer like that ? | ||
| Aaron |
Ryan: I use a 22.5 pilot and a 70 nozzle, believe it or not. Seems weird to use such a small pilot with such a big nozzle, but that's what it wants. The 22.5 pilot gets me smoothest idle at the prescribed number of turns on the idle mixture screw, and I tried all 3 nozzles (50, 60, 70) and liked the response with the 70 best. I set it to work from idle to about 3/4 throttle. I rode the wife's S1 at Homecoming Battletrax. Took the S1 class but Joe White beat me by half a second for overall honors on his X1. He's a helluva rider, I don't mind losing to him. Ripped a hole in the knee of my jeans and tore up a pair of boots trying to catch him. I'm using the 97 needle in the middle position on both bikes. I noticeably lose part throttle power if I lower it. Jml: the '99 M2 has a Thunderstorm top end, perhaps that's the difference. Jet kits seem like a waste of money to me, personally. See ya, AW | ||
| Jasonl |
Rippin' - thanks for the post. I'm at part throttle below 3k rpm. It doesn't happen all the time, infrequently at best. I checked the plugs and I'm worried about the bike being too lean most the time with the 185 jet. So in goes the 190. Thanks for any help. BTW Anyone - how can you tell if your cycle is dangerously lean? | ||
| Jml |
Aaron, I don't intend to use a jet kit either. I am interested in the differences so I know how close the recommendations at the top of this board are. It doesn't sound like there was a major change that would significantly impact jetting. I haven't jetted a carb in several years and that was dirt bikes. I am looking forward to getting into this... Thanks, Jerry | ||
| Jasonl |
JML - the jetting part isn't hard. It's just getting the tuning right thats the bitch. But it's fun to play with and "theorize" on. | ||
| Yardbird |
Looking for some free advice here. I recently added a SuperTrapp with 15 disks to my otherwise stock (gutted filterbox, k&n, freed breathers) S1WL. With the stock muffler, I was running a little lean on top end with a 165 jet. With the muffler swap, I went to a 185. I have the 45 slow jet with the air screw out 2.75 turns - seems ok there. Now it seems to run great down low but sometimes in higher gears, it coughs a little when I open the throttle. If I gradually feed it throttle while the rpms rise, it goes like a raped ape! Think I should mess with the needle? What would some of you guys try at this point. Please don't recommend a dyno run - I'm nowhere near a dyno dealer. Thanks in advance ... Jb | ||
| Chuck |
My first guess was that you are too rich on top; but then I wasn't sure. Try to determine whether this is a "rich" symptom or a "lean" symptom. Is it worse when cold or worse when hot? If worse when hot, you ARE too rich. Is your needle adjustable? If so, drop it down at least one clip position. If not, try a smaller main. By the way . . . when is the last time you changed your spark plugs and wires? | ||
| Y2k01x1 |
i'm getting ready to install a forcewinder xr2 air filter on my fuel-injected x1. is there a trick to removing the screw at the one o'clock position on the snorkel tube? what tool and is the screw a metric hex? it's one of the three screws that secure the snorkel tube to the backplate/support plate. thanx! | ||
| Jasonl |
Y2k01x1 - Get a metric set of ball-end allen wrenches. They're not expensive and great for getting at the allen bolts you can attack straight on. (They work just as well coming in from an angle.) I think this tool could solve your problem. | ||
| Y2k01x1 |
Jasonl: thanx for the help. don't know why the engineers couldn't have placed the screws in a more accessible spot. i will follow your advice. | ||
| Airborne |
Y2k01x1: I know exactly what screw you are talking about. It isn't a fun one to deal with either. Here is another possible thing to try. I took a allen wrench and hack sawed the short side to leave just enough length to get a grip on the bolt. Fits right into that tight little space. | ||
| Y2k01x1 |
airborne: thanx. that should work nicely also. will try it. thought my harley tools was all i was gonna need. now i'm collecting metrics. go figure... |
