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Los5445
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 28, 2010 - 07:03 pm: | 
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I have had my Uly do this about 3 or 4 times since its been back from HD for its 10,000 mile service.
After running at speed for about 20-30 minutes at 4K RPM as it begins to slow it gives a big hiccup or cough and the red engine light comes on. The bike seems to run rough for a few seconds and then goes back to normal. Since its service the fuel consumption has increased. I am averaging about 38-40 mpg when I used to get higher.
I don't know if these things are related but they all appeared after the service.
Needless to say the cough and "buck" of the bike are scaring the hell out of me since they seem to happen at freeway speeds. |
Los5445
| | Posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 - 09:17 am: |
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Chandler HD service guys immediately said it was an ECM problem, probably has some issue as a result of the 10K service. Anyone have any guidance? |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 - 09:42 am: |
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Loose connection on the ECM, possibly an internal break in the ECM. What is happening is the ECM is momentarily "Rebooting" as it gets disconnected. Unfortunately the ECM on the Uly is right under the rider, and the seat can apply pressure to the connector, especially if you are on the large side. A fix to prevent this is to buy spacer blocks so the seat will rest on those and not the ECM.
Without seeing your bike it is hard to say if your ECM is indeed damage or needs replacement. One way to test is to take off the seat, and with the bike running, play with the connectors on the ECM. Try to wiggle it and see if the bike dies. |
Los5445
| | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 06:48 pm: |
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10-4 thank you. The bike will go back to Chandler. The gentleman on the phone agreed that there have been "squeeze" problems as well as loose wire issues, even one case of the seat wearing through the wire housing. |
Timmins_xb12x
| | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 08:49 pm: |
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Similar issues with my 07 XB12X, found the battery leads not tight, cleaned and torqued the terminals made the cough go away. |
Los5445
| | Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 03:01 pm: |
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Thank you both, Well I wiggled the ECM leads, nothing. Tried battery leads, nothing. Tried pressing on the ECM body, nothing. Maybe a programming problem? |
Dave
| | Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 10:45 pm: |
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Mine has been experiencing the hiccup at times as well... washed it today and found the hot battery lead a bit loose -- good tip.
DAve |
Los5445
| | Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 09:48 am: |
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Well the bike has now been at Chandler HD for about a week. Their techs couldn't figure it out so they contacted the factory rep, he says that it is a loose ground problem. I think otherwise but its still under factory warranty. They didn't tell me what the codes stored in the ECM lead them to. So I'm not sure I have any better guidance for them. |
Punkrider99
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 01:03 am: |
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I'm having a very similar issue as originally posted. It started as a single hiccup after riding for about 30 minutes on the freeway. It'd just "bup" for an instant and the CEL would come for 2-3 seconds and then everything immediately went back to normal and everything was fine. I'd rock on at 80 mph the rest of the way home on my 60 mile ride with no problems.
Then it started to do it twice per ride (I ride 60 miles one way to work... takes about an hour). It's been doing this for months and months and months and has never really been concerning until today.
Today all hell broke loose and the bike was barely rideable. The •••••• part was I was splitting lanes during rush hour traffic trying to get home. At first it was a single "bup" which was then followed by another one and then it just kept misfiring over and over. It got worse and actually back fired real bad a few times. I nursed it over to the slow lanes and cruised at 50-55 mph for a few minutes while I contemplated pulling over and calling for a tow.
Then after some time it completely cleared up and went away. I drove home like normal at 80 mph without a single hiccup after that.
I noticed that when it hiccups the tach drops. It was happening right at 3000 rpm for a while but then it was also happening at 4000 rpm. When it misfires the CEL comes on and then goes right back off. Big back fires tell me that there's fuel but the spark is cutting out and then coming back on.
It ALWAYS happens have about 30 minutes of riding. Seems like a run time error or something. Also, pulled a code 36 tonight which makes sense because I recently replaced my fan so that was the code that was stored. No other codes come up.
I put over 20k miles a year on this bike and I really depend on it to get back and forth to work. Without it I spend a ton of money on gas which sucks. PLEASE HELP!!!
Thanks! |
Punkrider99
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 01:12 am: |
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On another note, I have a brand new race ECU that I've never used. I guess the only thing I need to get it up and running is an initial TPS set? Then I can see if it's the ECU or something else.
BTW bike is stock except for a Spec OPS muffler and the "race" k&n filter element (still using stock filter housing with no holes).
Oh yeah, bike is a '03 (Nov '02) XB9S with almost 50k miles. |
Skully
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 02:40 pm: |
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A friend of mine experienced these exact symptoms on a 2004 XB12. The problem turned out to be a cam position sensor that was in the process of dying. My 2003 XB9S is beginning to do this. It does seem to be temperature related.
I started the diagnostic process by cleaning the ground wire connections under the seat. That didn't help. Cleaning and tightening the battery wires didn't help.
Next, I will replace the ECM and coil simply because I have spares. Will report back hopefully later this afternoon (gotta watch MotoGP!)
Keith |
Punkrider99
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 02:55 pm: |
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Hey Keith,
Thanks for the info!! I have my suspicions about the cam sensor as well. As I mentioned before, I have a race ECM that I've never used so I'm installing that soon but unfortunately I have to take it to the dealer to do the initial TPS setting. They're first opening is next Saturday so my bike will be sitting all week.
Just about 5 minutes ago, I pulled out my battery and ECM and everything looks fine. I can see that vibe is a real mother on this bike. The tape that's wrapped around all the ECM wiring has been rubbed through but all the wires are fine. So, nothing looks out of the ordinary under the seat.
I'll try the race ECM and in the mean time I'll probably look for a coil and cam sensor.
I'll let you know what I find out. |
Skully
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 04:24 pm: |
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I saw that my wires were rubbing on the underside of the seat so I put some of the plastic, flexible conduit around them for protection. So far it seems to provide good protection. |
Skully
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 05:16 pm: |
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I just noticed your mileage. I'm hitting 50K on mine as well. I'll be surprised if we have different problems. |
Skully
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 07:53 pm: |
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Well, I just returned from a test ride after reinstalling the original ECM. Other than not being properly tuned for the D&D muffler and open air box, it ran great. I'll ride it for a few days and see what happens.
Keith |
Skully
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 10:53 pm: |
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23 March Update:
Well, reinstalling the OEM ECM did not solve the problem. The ignition cut-out is exactly the same as with the Buell Race ECM.
Here are my thoughts and observations to date:
1. Changing the ECM did not make the symptoms go away.
2. I've noticed that the problem begins as the bike warms up from "cold". If the bike was run within the last hour or two, the problem starts immediately.
3. Pressing the run/kill switch briefly on the right handle bar while moving at 70 mph in 5th gear causes the same reaction from the engine.
4. Gently accelerating seems to cause the problem to subside, but the instant that I roll off of the throttle, it cuts-out. After decelerating, as I start to roll the throttle back on, it will cut out.
5. It would seem that injectors, spark plugs, plug wires, the CHT sensor, and the IAT sensor could not cause these symptoms. What does that leave? TPS, coil, CPS, and wiring? Would data logging whilst monitoring various sensors tell us anything?
Keith |
Skully
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 11:19 am: |
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24 March Update:
I reinstalled the Buell Race ECM with the modified map (for open air box and D&D muffler). This was the ECM that was installed when this ignition problem began. I also moved the wiring harness around where it appeared to be rubbing against a potential ground.
1. Rode 10 miles to work, 50dF – ran perfectly.
2. Rode 3 miles to gym, 75dF – ran perfectly
3. Rode 12 miles home, 75dF – ran perfectly
I was not able to ride on Friday. I’ll follow up with more data as I am able to gather it.
Keith |
Punkrider99
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 02:34 pm: |
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Well here's my update:
Zero, zilch, nada.
Took my bike to the dealer so they could do the initial TPS set on my new race ECM and the bike ran like crap. It started and idled fine but it had no bottom end. It would hardly take off from a stop. The top end was there but no bottom end. I stalled twice just trying to get out of the parking lot. $95 of service work for nothing. 
I put the stock ECM back in and rode home. I apparently didn't ride the bike long enough to have any problems so of course the bike ran totally fine. I priced out a new cam sensor so I guess that'll be my next step.
Just to reiterate my issue, it only does it after riding for at least 30-40 minutes. It is not load dependent. In fact it usually does it while cruising at about 80 mph with a constant load and constant throttle position. The bike starts up, warms up, idles and runs totally fine before this then it continues to run just fine after the misfires.
And of course the dealer wants me to let them run the bike on the dyno with all the diagnostic stuff for two or three hours. Pfft, yeah right. I'm not going to pay $300 in service for a $70 cam sensor. In fact, I feel like a dumb ass for even paying $95 to have them set my TPS on a race ECM that doesn't even work right. Arrrgh... stupid bike. |
Punkrider99
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 02:45 pm: |
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Keith, what parameters can you data log?
When mine cuts out I notice that the tach drops out and then when it comes back on it back fires. This would lead me to think that I've got fuel present but spark is cutting out and then coming back (and lighting off the fuel and thus creating the back fire). So, either the ignition is cutting out or the timing is being radically changed. I'd be nice to see what the igniting timing is doing during the misfire.
I have to admit that I actually have a back ground in stand alone engine management systems so I have a whole slew of things that I'd like to see but I don't know what you're capable of logging. Is it possible to log the CPS signal input?
I wish I could put an oscilloscope on my bike and make it misfire to see what the signal is doing. |
Punkrider99
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 02:50 pm: |
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BTW here is the part number from my race ECM:
on the box: 32814-02Y
on the ECM: 32801-02Y 0225 |
Los5445
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 03:42 pm: |
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I realize now that I did not enter the final resolution to my Uly's problem. I don't know if this is of any value to you but, it was a crack in the ECM outlet. I'm not sure the official name of the part but its the gizmo that the ECM plugs into. It had developed a hairline crack that became an issue when it got warm under the seat. Once the the temp was up the crack would open/flex just enough to cause a short or disconnect momentarily then in the blink of any eye it would reset. Sometimes (rarely) it would shut off and I would pop the clutch and it would restart and run fine. As the crack spread it happened more frequently. They changed that part and has not happened since. |
Los5445
| | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 03:44 pm: |
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BTW, I think I need to post that Froggy was correct from the get go. (In my case at least.) |
Skully
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2011 - 05:43 pm: |
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Carlos,
My problem does not seem to be the ECM as it has happened with both of my ECMs now. I was coming to the conclusion that the problem has something to do with the wiring harness.
The ECM plugs into the wiring harness via two connectors. Can you be a bit more specific about what was fixed? I have a sneaking suspicion that I have the same problem.
Thanks,
Keith |
Punkrider99
| | Posted on Monday, March 28, 2011 - 10:55 am: |
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I took a close look at my ECM and it's definitely not cracked. Maybe the Uly's ECM is in a different spot because it sounds like it get's sat on a lot more easily. I really don't see any way that sitting on my ECM could ever be happen on my Lightning.
I'm still thinking it's the CPS. |
Los5445
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 07:19 pm: |
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I apologize for not replying sooner. It was the outlet itself, it gets sat on in the Uly configuration. More so if you are "big-bone-ded" like me (aka Tank-ass). The heat, weight bearing and slight movement all contributed to the problem, in my bike at least. |
Skully
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - 10:03 pm: |
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Carlos,
The outlet to the ECM or the wiring harness?
Thanks,
Keith |
Punkrider99
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - 11:42 am: |
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Well it's been 180 miles and no hiccup. I don't want to start thinking that it's fixed because it'll happen again when I least expect it or want it to.
Guess I'll keep on keepin' on until it acts up again. |
Punkrider99
| | Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 11:57 am: |
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I've put 1200 miles on the bike now and it's hiccuped twice. The first 600 miles were totally find and I had no issues at all. Last week it hiccuped once on my way home but what was strange was that it happened as I was getting off the freeway at the exit I take to get to my house. I had already been riding for an hour and it usually does it in the first 40 minutes or so. So having it happen that late in my ride was definitely odd. But it hiccuped once, the CEL came on for a few seconds, and then everything was fine.
Then the next day it hiccuped on my ride up to work in the morning. It did it in the EXACT same spot that it always does in Long Beach. It did the same thing: hiccuped, CEL came on, CEL went off, and I kept going with no problems.
I've made a few commutes since then and it hasn't done it. I'm just glad it's not going crazy like it did that one time and misfire for 5 minutes straight. But it's pretty frustrating not knowing what the problem is or how to fix it.
I'll update some more as time continues on. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 01:22 pm: |
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If the CEL comes on, there's likely a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) stored that'll help to identify what the ECM thinks is the problem. If you don't have the diagnostic tool to read the DTCs, you can jumper two pins in the Data Connector and find out what is stored as historic codes and/or current codes.
There is likely plenty of info on this forum to learn how to do this simple procedure. Let us know what you find. Good Luck! |
Punkrider99
| | Posted on Monday, March 05, 2012 - 05:00 pm: |
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Well here we are almost a year later. I haven't ridDen my bike much in the last 6 months but I'm getting ready to start riding it daily again. The last time I did ride it it hiccuped just like before. I had completely forgotten about the issue so it was a big surprise to me.
Could it possibly be the coil? I'm thinking the plug wires and coil are probably needing to be replaced after having 50,000 miles put on them.
Skully, you still out there? Did you get yours fixed? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Monday, March 05, 2012 - 06:00 pm: |
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If it were my bike, I would first look closely at the cable routing under the seat. My 9sx had the cable routed over the battery terminal wire, which had a sharp edge, and it put an almost microscopic nick through the insulation. It would periodically short out that wire, and cause the "briefly dead bike" followed by a CEL. Re-insulating and re-routing the wire solved the problem for the next 30k miles till I sold it.
I would also check grounds, particularly around the battery. I would check the bank angle sensor (maybe bypass it for a while and see if the problem goes away).
The bundle that goes down from the flyscreen under the frame is also a known chafe point. There is another in the fuel pump. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2012 - 09:51 am: |
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Skully (and others...) I care more now, because the Uly started doing this on the way to work this morning. 
Early on, you said:
quote:A friend of mine experienced these exact symptoms on a 2004 XB12. The problem turned out to be a cam position sensor that was in the process of dying. My 2003 XB9S is beginning to do this. It does seem to be temperature related.
I started the diagnostic process by cleaning the ground wire connections under the seat. That didn't help. Cleaning and tightening the battery wires didn't help.
Next, I will replace the ECM and coil simply because I have spares. Will report back hopefully later this afternoon (gotta watch MotoGP!)
The moment it started, my first thought was cam position sensor. Mainly because it would explain a very short, very sudden start and restop. And because I already fixed the break in the wire bundle around the steering head, and have made sure my ECM isn't rubbing.
So I looked at the tach carefully during the hiccups (a trick I learned when the CPS on the Saab died... if it cranks and cranks and won't start, and the tach needle is dead in the water, the CPS is probably your problem, as the tach pickup is the CPS).
Sure enough, the tach during the stuttering would both climb and drop *dramatically* even though the clutch was out and speed did not change significantly. So for example, I'd be cruising at 3500 RPM and it would start to stutter, and the tach would whip up to 5000 RPM and down to 1500 RPM. Obviously, the engine speed can't be changing that fast. And if it was just a dead short, I don't think the tach would register *more* RPMs, and the speedo needle was not jumping.
So did you ever replace (or test) your CPS?
I got a cheap portable storage scope for *exactly* this kind of problem, and I've been dying to use it. So I'll slap it on the cam position sensor leads and ride around and see what I can catch. And I'll probably just order a new CPS anyway, I either need it or it's a nice thing to have on the shelf.
So anyway, if you or anyone else has experience with the CPS failures, I'm all ears.
Thanks! |
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