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Rotzaruck
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 11:45 pm: | 
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-286998202 3941899903&hl=en
This is my 03 XB9. It sounds worse in person, but since I'm the only one here, maybe someone can sort these noises out and save me a lot of exploration. Not to mention all the things I'll tear up trying to find out what's wrong.
I've had a light pecking noise all along, when I listen for it, haven't been too concerned about that. My riding time has been greatly reduced lately and my fixing time is nil so I haven't had time to do anything about it. Except fret and worry.
There is a series of raps then they stop and do it again. Behind that is a rattly grindy kind of sound. I can't really tell where it comes from, listened with my long screwdriver briefly, will try to spend a little more time with that when I can. When I listen too hard it starts getting depressing. I've tried ignoring, it won't go away.
My front header looks funny at the flange, but it really doesn't sound like it's coming from there; sounds lower.
It's full of fairly fresh Mobil 1.
The noise either started or increased in volume a few days ago, I thing mostly suddenly, though I may have just suddenly started paying attention. I've been really busy lately trying to pay everybody else.
I ride it fairly gently and rarely hit the rev limiter except when I'm changing gears. Or when I miss one. It seems to be running fine.
Hopefully it will be something fairly simple, like that nut that comes loose and has to be torqued with a backhoe or something(that's okay, I have one). But the way my luck has been lately, well, the last forty years or so anyway, you just never know.
Any guidance and suggestions of where to start would be greatly appreciated.
Rotzaruck!! |
Ironken
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 12:19 pm: |
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Rotza, I feel your concern. My XB12S makes some knocks and clatters. I've committed to just not giving a shit. When/if it fails, I'll fix it. These engines are a bit noisy by nature and your vid sounds no different than my scooter does. My opinion is run it! |
Rotzaruck
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 12:49 pm: |
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Yeah, that's an approach I have taken before. Just go till it won't go and then you know what is was!
I was just getting used to all the strange racket when it changed. I don't like change sometimes. I wish I was smart enough to translate the sounds to big block chevy language, I understand and diagnose those so much better!
I was wanting to mosey down to Suches this weekend(got lots of other issues to keep me home though), but kind of skeered to. If I did though and it made it that far, I could find some educated ears to listen.
If I had to push it back, there is more down hill than up.
HMMMM; thinking |
Ironken
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 01:33 pm: |
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Look at it this way, if she blows, you have the perfect excuse to go bigger......insert Tim the Tool Mans grunt here...... |
Jramsey
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 03:55 pm: |
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Drain the oil and check the color, cut open the oil filter and check for "metallic pieces".
Check the primary while your at it.
If everything checks out OK start wearing ear plugs while its running. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 08:16 pm: |
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Link doesn't work on my linux box, but the 9s make a LOT more clatter then the 12's. So don't get alarmed if yours is tappier then a 12.
Ceejay (03 9r), myself (05 9sx), and another friend (doh! forgot your name but it was an 06 9sx) were all "pitted" together at Mid Ohio, and we all had the same happy tappy. The 12's were much "smoother".
No idea why, I think the cams and valve springs are the same, and 1000 RPM idle is 1000 RPM idle.
When mine gets really hot, it is really tappy. Been that way from 3000 miles to close to 30,000 miles with no issues. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 08:34 pm: |
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Where was the microphone?
The light ticking noise sounds like valve train noise. That's fairly normal. I wouldn't be too concerned about that unless it gets very loud at cold start-up and doesn't quiet down after a couple minutes. Hydraulic lifters can sometimes bleed down and take a while to refill.
Did ya ever get the primary sprocket nut retorqued to 250 ft-lbs as specified in the service bulletin notice floating around BadWeB? That doesn't mean much by itself if not done except to be reassured that the nut is not loose, in which case there would likely be ominous sounding but relatively harmless gravel crushing noises coming from the primary (distinctly not light ticking noises). |
Rotzaruck
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 11:57 pm: |
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Thanks for listening and suggesting folks!
I was about to take it out and warm it up to drain the fluids out. Beck was sitting there and I offered to let her do it for me since she hadn't ridden it in a while and it may be a while before ANYBODY gets to. I have a long driveway and I could hear it as she drove off. Then when she hit the road, probably six hundred feet or so away, with houses in between, I could hear the sound easily over the stock exhaust. Not a pleasant sound at all!(Becky came back grinning though!!)
It sounded kinda whirry grindy; I'm sure that's a perfectly clear description for long range diagnosing.
Listening to the video myself, I can barely pick out the rattle I'm hearing, can't really pick up the other grindier sound at all.
I drained the primary and the crankcase, some fluffy metal on the plugs, about like last time. The primary oil was just brown. The engine had a streaking of very fine something in it. The oil filter had the finely ground stuff too, nothing any bigger though.
Reep,
it's more than the normal tapping it does. It's deeper, sort of irregular, and either changes when going down the road or it has two new noises
Sparky
I took that super duper video with my little digital camera, I guess one of those little holes somewhere is the mic. That explains the high quality audio!
To further complicate matters, I have buried my manual. Deep. Due to complications I'm not even going to explain, we've emptied the bedroom to paint. I stuck my XB manual(that always stayed within reach of my desk) in my box of other manuals, and put it in some corner of the spare bedroom. THEN we had to completely empty an apartment(in panic getthedepositbackanddon'tpayanothermonthsrent mode) and most of it went in that same spare bedroom. It was a lot more stuff than I had planned on. THEN my bike broke. Due to the danger of avalanches it's not even safe to search. I may never see it again.
Went back and studied some more, looked at that exhaust flange again. I'm wondering more and more how much and varied commotions a leak there could make. It has some dark and light places on it. If that's the gasket I can see behind the flange, I can see a crack in it, or is that just a split ring to hold things together? The only one I've had apart was the M2, too long ago too.
The rear exhaust looks like a booger to get to.
She did come back!
Might just put up a marker and forget about my manual.RIP |
Ocbueller
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 07:54 pm: |
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For peace of mind I would have to retorque the oft mentioned nut. Other than that I would think a loose primary chain.
SteveH |
Sparky
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 11:56 am: |
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An exhaust leak at the header flange gaskets could very well contribute ticking noises also.
It's easy to see anomalies on the front header flange but not so easy on the rear header. Perhaps poking around there with a small mirror and strong light might verify it looks OK? |
Xbgenin
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 10:33 pm: |
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Ed, I saw your video. The bike sounds normal to me.
My first comment would have been that your last bike was probably an import. Many import riders are not accustom to the extra noises HD engines naturally produce.
I see, however that your previous bike was a M2, so you should be used to the idea of a noisy motor.
A loose exhaust flange will rattle like hell and you'll probably hear something resembling a "sucking" sound as the pistons pump. You'll probably notice some severe pipe discoloration depending on how long it's been run that way for. I had the same problem for about a week or so with my old Road King. The black tip of my Rinehart 2 --> 1 turned chocolate brown!
A flashlight and a telescopic inspection mirror will tell you more.
Other than that, just from the video, the bike sounds normal to me. If it were me, I would check all the fluid levels, ride it, and ask the shop to do a compression/leakdown check during the next service. A compression check and leakdown check will tell you lot about your motor. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 10:45 am: |
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I agree with Sparky. A slight exhaust leak, meaning leaking past the gaskets not due to a loose flange (that would be a glaringly obvious issue) can cause the noise I'm hearing in your video.
Or it could just be noisy valvetrain. If it gets louder during acceleration like when Beck pulled out and took off, then that is indicating an exhaust gasket leak. If under chopped throttle decelleration from elevated RPM you hear some backfiring or strong burbling that then reinforces suspicion of exhaust gasket leakage. That is more prevalent for a carbureted bike though. The EFI may better limit fuel charge in such conditions and thus not cause the same effect.
Do you notice any unusual noises during decelleration? |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 10:49 am: |
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"It has some dark and light places on it. If that's the gasket I can see behind the flange, I can see a crack in it, or is that just a split ring to hold things together? "
That is the split ring that seats inside the flange and holds the header to the cylinder head. The gasket is not visible without removing flange and header. The gasket is one of those compressed metalic mesh types that upon torquing of the flange nuts form to the exhaust port and header. |
Rotzaruck
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 10:55 pm: |
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Thanks for the input gentlemen!
I wish I had better sound, it's so hard to hear in that video. It's definitely something abnormal though. My M2 had a blown out V&H so engine noise was quite lost. I had spent some time listening to all the varied racket from the XB, and had gotten used to it, but it's undoubtedly changed. The sound riding is completely different from the rattle I hear at idle. I may have two things going on. The idle sound does speed up with rpm, and isn't affected by letting the clutch out some in gear to put a little strain on things. I think I read somewhere here that the nut that comes loose will quiet down with a load , but I'm not sure and can't find it now. May have dreamed it.
We attacked that room full of boxes last night, looked in each and every one(major undertaking). Don't know WHAT I did with that box of Buell manuals. Then I invested a lot of time choosing and printing off a ream of sheets from the on line manual, the majority of which printed AFTER I ran out of ink! Another pine tree down for nothing.
After reading all the posts, I realized I had been hearing some popping while decelerating, and even though it looks like a ugly job, I would hope it was exhaust.
Decided to hit the dealer for parts and check the monster torque nut, replace the exhaust gaskets, adjust the primary chain, replace the clutch cable "o" ring (too small of a leak to fix without good reason), zip it up and see.
The dealer was open till seven the last time I was there. Got there just in time to find out they had gone to "winter hours" and closed ten minutes before I got there. Started home all dejected and got in a slow line of cars going slow because they saw the deputy. When I saw him he was looking at me! Sure enough, he pulled out and followed me a while and hit the blue lights. Then I saw another coming toward me and he hit his lights too; I was surrounded!!
Apparently putting on your seat belt just after looking at a deputy looking at you is too late to count. BUT driving around with expired tags, no registration and no proof of insurance DOES count. I really needed another day in court, I have so little to do these days. The really frustrating thing is, I had been riding the Blast earlier, which doesn't even have a seatbelt, and if I could have found a way to tie that mattress I had to relocate on there I wouldn't have gotten that ticket. Should have tried harder.
Not knowing what parts I can get, had quite a bit to do with what approach I was actually going to take, so I think I'll just scratch my head or something, and surf the knowledge vault until tomorrow.
I'll report when I manage to do anything.
Thanks again |
Mbc
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 11:35 pm: |
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One ear plug and a 2' piece of hose,start the bike and snoop around with the hose in your ear.This will give you a better idea from where the sounds are coming from,top of the engine,*exhaust gaskets*(my geuss),primary side,cam/lifter side,cracked/broken header or muffler,head gaskets,listen to everything.Sometimes this will take you straight to the problem,then again you may need to get a little creative. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 01:47 pm: |
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Mbc, that is a good approach for general noise diagnostics and I'd recommend that be done. But, due to the construction of the XB series with fuel in the frame, there is no substantial mass above the engine to attenuate engine noises as with the tubers. There is only a thin plastic airbox floor, the air filter and its cover and the outer "tank" cover.
This construction does damp a lot of the higher frequency tappy noises from the valve train but little else.
As a result, the XB9 engine (at least mine) can sometimes make a kinda rumbling, low frequency, rough sounding grinding noise that is very predominate with the helmet on and in the normal riding position with head directly above the faux "tank". Other BadWeB posters have characterized this rumbling as nickels in a blender or nickels dumped in the motor or even coffee can full of nickels. Pretty descriptive, huh? But if one moves his head off to the left or right, this rough grinding noise seems to go away. I don't know if the hose technique would pick up these nuances but it'd be worth a try. Thanks for that tip. |
Rotzaruck
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 01:24 am: |
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Progess!!
I know one thing it's not!
I got by Thunder Creek HD Buell and they had everything I asked for (bless their hearts) except the chain inspection cover gasket. It apparently only comes with the cover(which they did have). $15 for the cover and gasket wasn't bad, but it was a lot for a gasket;I passed on that. We never could find a number for the "O" ring for the clutch cable, that's been seeping forever. No problem there, had one at my shop.
In snatches and grabs between everything else going on I got the primary cover off and jumped on that nut.
I had a four foot fence post on my ratchet, so I don't really know how tight it was, but it certainly wasn't loose.
I made my locker tool
I learned a 150# weakling standing on the end of the handle won't get it
But if you reach down and grab the peg support, pull hard and grunt twice you are rewarded with a nice click! Not nearly as bad as I thought.
Got the primary cover back in place,(after screwing it onto the clutch cable,(tricky thing) and realized my small torque wrench must have gone into witness protection with my manual. It's always something! I'll have to get a loaner when I take this monster one back.
I'm anxious to get it back together and do some more serious listening. I was thinking it would be good to have that nut crossed off the worrying list, but now I'm worried about having to take it back off. That red locktite said "PERMANENT". |
Mbc
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 02:02 am: |
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Sparky,as you have described the airbox,"faux" tank,if the airbox is a type of Helmholtz resonator or Quincke-Herschel tube or some other noise negating devise,then what you may be hearing could be the airbox itself ,when all the factors are "just right".I'm not familiar with the XB construction,if its possible,simply remove the airbox cover then run the bike and listen for the noise. I,m grasping at thin air now. |
Rotzaruck
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 01:03 am: |
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I finally managed to get it all back together tonight. Nut to spec and chain adjusted. I still have my deeper knocky noise, but it seems to be somewhat subdued. Or maybe it's my imagination. The other noise, I can't hear with it sitting. I'll send Beck down the road on it tomorrow (hope I don't have to twist her arm or anything), between ballgames, and see if I hear it then. I was just listening around with my screwdriver and it really seems to be coming from lower down. I can hear it pretty clear sitting on the seat with my head right over the air box though.
I constructed an oil straining device to see just how much metal came out of there, I spect I'll be asking how much is acceptable next, if my rig catches anything.
Managed to amuse myself (burning hair is just funny) while listening and gave up for the evening. |
Mbc
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 04:12 am: |
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Did you cut the oil filter open to look for metal ? |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 06:32 am: |
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Buy yourself a Filtermag.
It will catch and keep any metal in the engine oil and keep it in the filter for you to see at the next change. |
Rotzaruck
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 11:39 am: |
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I did rip the filter up, found a noticeable amount of silver dust, nothing any larger.
I don't think I would have noticed what was in the oil if I hadn't been looking so hard, but it had streaks of fine stuff in it. When that sock settles maybe I can see more.
Filter mag looks like a good idea. I was thinking about the metal on the plug and wondering where you could put another magnet, never thought of that!
After all these football games(3) maybe I'll find out something.
Thanks! |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 04:34 pm: |
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I have one on my 12R.
I put it on before the dealer was allowed to start the bike.
You would not believe how much metal is in the oil! |
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