| Author | Message | ||
     Dlandis03 |
So I bought my special ops pipe. Sounds great, Lost all my midrange. Will the Race ECM bring any of that back? Or atleast make it run better, (popping with I decel) | ||
| Kpg2713 |
Same thing with my jardine. I have been looking into a tfi or race ecu. I'm sure someone can help more. I have done airbox mods, have you? | ||
| Buelltroll |
You could always buy a D&D... I happen to know were theres on for sale for 450... | ||
| Sneth |
if you lost your midrange, what did you gain? | ||
| Moondust |
this is what Ive been on about in countless posts, you end up on a wild goose chase trying to claw back power with a k&n & race ecm etc etc - the list goes on but hop back on a stock & it just feels right - like the day you got excited about buy a buell in the first place. I have an original Drummer on mine - I love the sound so im putting up with slight power loss but sometimes I go down to the HD dealer to have another go on a stock - just to see if Im nuts but - the stock gets me all the time - it feels zippier & smoother with all the power you first brought the bike for. Once you get an aftermarket - it seems you have to jump thru hoops just get it back to how it was with stock. Im starting to think stock is the best setup for both the 9s & 12s - im seriously thinking the sound is great but quicker smoother power is better. | ||
| Lazyj |
my new 12 (second buell) will stay stock with the exception of the air filter since i just like rewashing filters rather than buying them over and over. as far as performance goes i just love the stock setup also. I think loud pipes sound cool but as it is I find myself wearing earplugs just to stuff the intake noise on the 07' 12R.......I mean seriously how much more performance does one need for a street bike......(people who actually race need not react to the performance comment for I completely understand the purpose of MORE MORE MORE) | ||
| Nickcaro |
I'll agree with the stock setup being great for performance. I'm sure that Buell engineers invested many hours in to ensuring that its all as efficient as possible. That said, I'm itching to receive my Original Drummer that is on order. I'm not out there exploiting the full potential of the bike and just want that puppy to growl when I'm coming over the Brooklyn Bridge. | ||
| Theroamr |
I agree, I would love to have a little louder better sound, but the valve in the 12 exhaust seems to work so well. Why get a pipe then spend money on a new ecm trying to get back what you lost and be lucky to come out a few ponies ahead? Racing is different of course. Also if I had a 9 with no valve to worry about I'd get a pipe in a second. But all that time and money, $500.00-$900.00 seems better spent on other things, doesnt it? | ||
| Xbeau12s |
I bought my 04 XB12S with the race pipe,race ECM setup and I don't notice any power loss compared to stock. My roomate has a stock 04XB12S. Sounds good and enough power for me and it actually gets up quicker than the stock one. | ||
| Bud689 |
well i absolutely love odie's(special ops) pipe. had one on my 12r(keeps the stock valve working), now got another on my 9cityx. just changed the pipe, no messing with intake or air filter, left everything bone stock but the pipe, and it runs perfect, no decel backfire or miss, no warm up hesitations, runs just perfect, plugs check perfect. by seat of pants feels a little stonger in the middle and no real loss anywhere else. for only $250 for the sound and performance i would highly recommend special ops. | ||
| Fpresky |
+1 on Bud689 however I did put in Buell race air filter. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Those Special Ops pipes do sound good. I don't have one, but I've heard quite a few of them. | ||
| Khollister |
I feel the lower midrange is stronger with the Drummer than stock. I would agree that many of the pipes (Jardine, D&D, etc) appear to sacrifice low end based on Al's dyno testing. However the SpecOps & Drummer are the exceptions (the Micron really needs a remap). If you think your performance is worse with the Drummer than stock, I would call Kevin and get his assistance - I think something is wrong (or your seat-of-the-pants dyno is off). | ||
| Moondust |
Thats the problem - I have an original drummer & it backfires quite alot on the overrun & I love the sound but Im not getting a clear direct answer from anyone whether investing in the K&N & Race ecm will help ? Kevin swears by the stock ecm & stock filter so that just confuses the issue even more. Im thinking I may go back to stock & opt for power over sound. | ||
| Bads1 |
I don't know how many people I know that are running both stock and race ecm with a Drummer but none complain of lack of power. If your Drummer isn't making your bike perform better then stock you have some issues else where. (Message edited by bads1 on May 30, 2007) | ||
| Moondust |
Well - the performance is good but I spend alot of time in london city traffic - when I was on a stock bike it just seemed to handle better more zip - a little bit smoother thru out the range. Other than that its still great chunky power & grunt - the noise is awesome & I get complimented alot by sports bikers at petrol stations etc. Its just like I said - im pretty sure there is a trade off when you get an aftermarket pipe & peeps tend to end up trying to claw it back with the race ecm & K&N etc but I think it suits the track day peeps or long open motorways. When I get on the motorway - there is no complaints but I remember when I had stock - it was even sweeter on the motorway as well as down low in city traffic - that quick smooth power down low really gives a tad more confidence when squirting thru gaps & traffic. Kevin swears by the stock & drummer so maybe I should wait until my 1000 mile service in a couple of weeks. | ||
| Khollister |
All I can say is I felt the Drummer had more punch below 3500 RPM than stock with the stock ECM & filter. You say it backfires - mine certainly burbles & sounds kinda nasty (in a good way) on deceleration, but there has never been any full out backfires, as in gun shot noises. Hey - it's your bike and if you are convinced the stock pipe was faster who am I to argue. But I still think something might be out of sorts on your bike. Maybe the TPS has drifted and you need it reset. | ||
| Moondust |
Maybe backfire is too strong to describe it - it POPs loudly on the overun while rolling. Like you I kinda like it - its a nasty good sound but maybe thats the character of it - if you say you have the same ? Kholister - do you have the race ecm & K7N or ever think about getting that setup ? | ||
| Khollister |
I have a race ECM which I should sell. While it might have been a little more snappy than the stock one, I got detonation in a certain RPM range when the engine was hot (fan running). I took it back out since I live in Florida and it's often quite hot. The Race ECM has a little too much advance for my bike & climate. I do have a K&N for maintenance reasons - I couldn't tell any difference in performance (I have an 07 so the airbox is already pretty open). Friend here has the DirectLink map for the Drummer from Al at AmericanSportBike and he says it definitely made a difference in performance. I might try that route at some point, but I'm happy with how it runs now. | ||
| Al_lighton |
I recently demo'd a couple stock XB12's...one was a firebolt, the other a TT. I've been driving my micron equipped Xb12X long enough now that I wanted to feel what stock felt like again. Both were softer in the midrange than my XB12X, no doubt about that. I wasn't pounding them in the upper reaches, they WERE demo bikes after all. But the thing that I noticed is that both of them had plenty of decel popping going on. The difference is that the micron (and other aftermarket pipes) go pow pow pow on decel, where the stock pipes go pfft pfft pfft on decel. But it is the same phenomena, the muffler explosions occur on stock and aftermarket setups, the stock mufflers just muffle it more. Decel popping is just unburnt gasses combusting in the muffler. Pour a puddle of gas on the ground, light it, and it goes wumph. Do the same thing in a coke can and it goes BANG. Any time you contain an explosion, there is going to be a bang. Note that Buells don't really start popping until the RPM drops to about 3500 RPM. That's because the fuel tables are starved for fuel in the low throttle angle/high RPM cells because decel is the only time you can be there. They start popping down low because the operating point starts to be in a range where fuel needs to be in the table to support normal combustion across real world operating condition. There is a decel table in the ECM to help control popping, but I'm pretty sure that table gets disabled when the temps go up, likely because it is better to have popping but also cooling from fuel induction than to have no cooling and a quieter pipe. Al | ||
| Surewin |
Cool info, thanks al. You said that you're running micron; I'd assume that you tuned/swaped your ecm, and modded your air filter too. What all have you done? I for one was surprised at all of the posts in this thread about fighting to get power back. I would have assumed that the norm would have been if you change your exhaust (more air out) then you should change your intake (more air in) and someone should tell the ecm what to do! Too bad buells not doing the race kit anymore. Great bang for the buck. I have to agree with Al that stock bikes feel like they lack mid-range, and top-end obviously, as long as you have approached your mods as a system. just my two cents. | ||
| Thelumox |
Dlandis- i don't know what else you've done besides change pipes, but if you change one thing (exhaust), you need to change the other two (intake and fuel). i've done the specOPS pipe with Al's ecm remap and the open airbox. i chose the pipe for power from 4000 rpm to redline, and have been very happy with the results. Al has a remap that is specific for this pipe and it works very well. hope this helps. | ||
| Delk |
I just put a D&D on my `07 XB12Ss as well as K&M air filter, open air box kit and billet catch can last weekend. I also "tuned" the ECM using DirectLInk software and guess what? I too feel that I lost some power and smoothness over the stock setup. Now, I love the sound and it is key to note that unlike the Drummer or Micron the D&D provides midrange oomph as opposed to low range and/or high range RPM boost. So I knew what I was getting myself into --> I grew tired of being on the "waiting list" for my Drummer SS (although I'm still on list waiting). BUT...I really notice the increased difficulty of raising the front tire off the ground and I don't like that. Just my 2 cents. | ||
| Kowpow225 |
What is going on here? I'd have to agree the bike seems smoother stock but that may be something more related to the lack of noise and to your perception. Stock, granted has a more linear power delivery. (Message edited by kowpow225 on May 31, 2007) | ||
| Cgocifer |
I run a Jardine, race ecm, and race air filter. I can definitely feel the difference. Feels much stronger to me. I recently rode an 07 XB12R and not only was the thing waaaaayyy too quiet (sounded like lawn tractor), but it didn't feel as strong as my modded XB12S. Doesn't feel as smooth by any means, but acceleration feels smooth. As far as back fires, just about any HD-based engine as long as I can remember pops and crackles on deceleration. It's part of the deal when you have a big V-twin with that sort of firing order. You just notice it more with loud pipes. I think the weight savings alone from losing that big, heavy, stock exhaust is enough of a benefit to me. Just ride 'em, don't analyze every little thing like a couple horse power. Ear plugs? c'mon, seriously.  | ||
| Snakedriver |
My name is Leo and I wear ear plugs. Actually, I wear these cool little overpriced earbuds that the Army gives us to protect our ears...Not that I wired up to my MP3 player or anything. I Have a new race kit in the box waiting for me to put it on as soon as I get back from Iraq! | ||
| Brickcop |
From the sounds of your username you are a Cobra pilot. I was a Aeroscout observer flying 58's in Hawaii with the 5th of the 9th Cav in 90-94. Thanks for a great job and get back safe so you can enjoy your Buell. Scouts out!!! | ||
| Jasont |
Snakedriver, I use CEP's as well, love riding with them! Be safe, I will be on my way back to the desert next year(again). Scouts Out! Gary Owen. Jason | ||
| Ejiii |
I have a SS Drummer, race ECM and the F.A.S.T. Intake system on my 2005 XB9SX. I could never imagine going back to stock. The bike pulls hard from 1500RPM (yes, you read it right) to redline. The thing runs fantastic and I could not be more pleased. In it's stock form it was cold blooded, had hesitations and you could never ride under 3000RPM with small throttle openings, it was all jerky and snatchy. Also, I always wear earplugs on any ride over 5 miles. I want to keep my hearing for a long time. |
