| Author | Message | ||
     Badbuell82 |
"Except in the turns... Get a clue bro... I'm not the only one saying it. Accept it. I'm sure your 1000 is a BRILLIANT motorcycle. I'm quite positive of it actually. But... It still doesn't handle as well as an XB." I own both bikes (Xb12S & GSXR 600). I don't think you've ridden a modern I-4, or it's you who need to get a clue. The XB is a very good handling bike, but I find it too tall, with too much weight up high. In riding both bikes, I am able to go faster, much faster, on the I-4 through ALL turns than on the Buell. | ||
| Josh_ |
> but I find it too tall, with too much weight up high. You go faster on the bike you are more comfortable with. I don't have an XB mostly because I do not feel comfortable on them. Tho I do like the "Long." | ||
| Lions |
Gee...How come I don't seem to have a problem? C'mon fellas when will y'all admit: it's the rider....not the bike! I can corner just as well on my XB12S as I do on my ZX10R...Let's just stop the Buellsh!t right here and now. As someone who's owned and ridden both, I can attest that they all corner just as well (except for the Busa'a and ZX12's&14's and of course any Harley) as the ability of the rider!  | ||
| Curtyd |
What clinched the deal for me on my XB was when I read the frame and steering dimensions were the same as the 250 GP racing bikes. Those are still my all time favorite bikes or racing spectator sport. Faster speeds though the turns than even the MOTO GP class, I believe. Always lusted after the Aprilia 250 Race Replica for the street, but they NEVER could bring it into the USA. P.S. I rode japanese on the street for 20 years. The motor in the test ride in 1999 on the M2 is what put the grin on my face from ear to ear, bought one and haven't looked back yet. | ||
| Badbuell82 |
Like someone mentioned earlier; it's ALL a matter of taste. I've heard Evil Knievel say that "The Road King is the best handling, most well balanced motorcycle ever built!" And, he's been riding for over 50 years. Taste and perception! | ||
| Badbuell82 |
Lions, just curious, since I ride both a 600 & an XB12 also. Have you ever checked your lap times riding both bikes at the same track? Yes, both bikes handle well, but I personally, can shave huge amounts of time off when riding the GSXR 600. Someone else mentioned "it's all about which bike you're more comfortable cornering." I just find that the smaller bike inspires a lot more confidence in corners than the Buell. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Lions, no one is really saying that the XB's don't handle well. I think the point is that they don't handle BETTER than a repli-racer, as some here believe. I haven't heard anyone that owns both say the repli-racers have inferior handling. However, some Buell only people say that the repli-racers don't handle well, which in my experience is ridiculous. Also, if they have similar handling prowess, I would think having DOUBLE the horsepower might be helpful for quick riding under many circumstances. The same rider will have an advantage with equal handling and more power, period. To say otherwise makes no sense. How many threads are there on this board at any given time with guys trying to get 97 horsepower rather than 92? | ||
| Lions |
 Gotcha...again...I'm not putting down the Buells...just stating personal experience...I've met a lot of Buellers that swear on their mothers life that their bike corners better than any other and I still say, It's the rider...not the bike! | ||
| Spike |
I'd argue against that. Too much power, or power that is more challenging to control, will turn into a liability. The average rider will struggle to fully harness the power of the more powerful bike, and may lose confidence and end up going slower as a result. I've read tests comparing various sized bikes and it's not uncommon to see less experienced riders go faster on the less powerful bike. | ||
| Badbuell82 |
ANY “average” rider, or one possessing minimal riding skills should not be on ANY sport bike! If you’ve been riding awhile, whether riding, OR racing, anyone knows there’s NO such thing as “too much power”. So, that’s the most preposterous thing I’ve ever heard! If you have any skill level at all, you only use power when needed and applicable. Sure, a squid, or inexperienced rider will feel more comfortable on a “less powerful bike” and might even be able to ride it faster, but either way, that sounds like a recipe for disaster and an accident in the making. Personally, whether on an I-4, or a Buell, I’ll gladly take what you describe as that “Liability” of Power! Anyone who wouldn’t probably shouldn’t be piloting ANY motorcycle. | ||
| M2nc |
Lions - You make a valid point. When you get to the point that the bike is more capable than the rider, then the limiting factor is the rider and not the bike. For example, when I had my old CB750 Nighthawk, I was always able to keep up with the Buell riders. A Nighthawk was no state of the art machine but it did have the clearance to lean over in the corners. Though I could maintain the speed does not mean the bike was doing it well. The frame flex was unbelievable, I had to shift allot more and get back on the throttle sooner to counter the lack of frame rigidity and low end torque. I believe that modern repli-racers and Buells are so close in their capabilities that the rider is usually the limiting factor. I can tell you out on the street I do not push the Uly to it's limits because my goal is to get home, not to win a race. I also agree with Spike though. Expert riders out on a track will probably find a difference in the handling capabilities of your two bikes. Many look at the lap speeds and say a ZX10R is faster than ZX6R-636. On straightaways it would be, but in the corners professional racers carry higher corning speeds on the 600s than those on liter bikes. I would say the same about a Firebolt. I have no doubt that a rider that can find the limits of a Firebolt and repli-racer would carry higher speed through a curve on the Buell than a liter bike. If you look at the FX races, the Buells hang with the 600s through the curves if not out run them. It is not a far stretch to say there is plenty of objective evidence to say a Firebolt is faster through tight corners than a ZX10R. I am not so sure about a ZX6R though since the two compete at the same level and Buells do not dominate those classes. As far as for the street, to me the Buells make it easier to go fast through a corner. A ZX10R is more subjected to rider error. Breaking the rear tire loose or being in the wrong gear affects the ZX10R more than a Firebolt. I taught that lesson to a R1 rider last year on Wolf Pen Gap Rd. In the Valley, the M2 was in his way. But once we got into the pass with curves one after another, I put it in second gear and left there. He could not seem to find a gear that would come out of the super tight curves as fast as the M2 and then on several curves he came in too hot because he was trying to make up ground lost on the corner exits. He ended up loosing corner speed while recovering the bike which meant I pulled away even more. He final settled on the fact that he did not have enough straightaway to make up the ground he was loosing to me on the corner exit even though he was able to manage the same mid-corner and faster straightaway speed. I will also add that I have ridden Firebolts and my M2 does not hold a candle to it in the curves, so I can only imagine what would have happened if I was riding one of those. Even with the dated M2, at the other end of the pass near US129 I was able to pull off at water station and stop the bike before he came into sight down the last hill. I almost turned around because I at first thought he had wrecked. So, I think that both of you have valid points, just have to define the level of riding. On the street the rider is usually the limiting factor, out on the track with pros on the bike, the bike is the limiting factor. | ||
| Eexb |
This thread could give anyone a headache !!! Most new bikes (IL4 600-1000, V twin Ducs & Buells & etc) are ALL fast bikes. Most ALL handle better than most riders, and many of them have MORE HP than many riders could ever master (especially on the street.) I own an XB12S w/ some mods, I'd also like to own a new Duc Monster S4RS and a Ducati ST3, and a GSXR 750, a Yamaha FZ1, and ..................... Fact is, except for straightaway speed, I'd likely corner at about the same speed on any of the above. So, what was that argument again ??? E | ||
| Spike |
Yikes. That's either the voice of immense experience or an immense lack of experience. Tell me, why do so many riders with numerous track days under their belts suggest a 600cc bike for an introduction to racing? Don't they know there's no such thing as too much power and they'd be much more competitive on a liter bike? Why do so many of the MotoGP riders prefer a "big-bang" firing order when they could have more power without it? | ||
| Badbuell82 |
Exactly as you stated! “An INTRODUCTION to racing”! | ||
| Curtyd |
I also rode my friend's Aprilia Tuono. What I noticed is you have to rev it up to get it to pull as hard as the Buells do from 3 grand. This is why I consider it a great streetbike. I do hit the rev limiter pretty soon but I'll bet it will end up pulling 8 grand or so in the next few years, anyhow. Not a TRACKBIKE, it's a STREETBIKE. We'll see what happens with the XBRR, still pretty innovative to try and put a racebike in folks hands for 30K. Try 5 to 10 times that much $$$'s for a HONDA/SUZUKI/KAW/YAMMIE race prepped platform. | ||
| Badbuell82 |
Don't need anything else but some safety wire. About 10 grand for a Suzuki GSXR 750. Anyone want to race? | ||
| Curtyd |
But you'll just be another "back marker" for the factory guys on that safety-wired 10K Suzuki, the guys at the front have the HRC/Yoshimura/Muzzy parts not the showroom stock stuff. | ||
| Heads |
GO BUELL,Rice burners Boring....i heard enough about them. can't wait to buy my next buell....hmmmmm then my next buell.ahhhh My friend with the GSXR 750, says he want's to go on "Pink Slips" with you, or he'll also race title to title in the N. GA mountains if you're serious? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA  | ||
| Curtyd |
It's what I ride now and I have been riding for 25 years, remember the one who DIES with the most toys win, Go RACE anyone you want, I doubt if I'd recognize you or your friend's name in any of the actual sanctioned races anywhere on this planet. Muzzy and Chandler both signed my first ZX7, saw Roberts/Lawson dominate in the 1970's and early 1980's and rode two stroke streetbikes for nearly 10 years. I like my Buell, you like your "FRIEND's" Suzuki. What do you do, ride "b****" on the back? When will you trade in your Vespa for a motorcycle of your own? Actually I like Vespas too, don't want to denigrate them by associating them with the 'friend' of another "bench racer". (Message edited by CURTYD on June 03, 2006) | ||
| Badbuell82 |
Google Drag Bike Racing Assoc. I was the A Stock record holder in 1979. Been riding & racing for close to 40 years. ONE of my bikes is an '04 XB12S, I love it but just like my Tomos Moped, I appreciate both for what they are & what they can & can't do. "But you'll just be another "back marker" for the factory guys on that safety-wired 10K Suzuki, the guys at the front have the HRC/Yoshimura/Muzzy parts not the showroom stock stuff." True! But, you'll still be lapping XBRR's! | ||
| Curtyd |
I think they're just getting started with the XBRR, we can only wait and see. Granted the best prediction of future behavior is to examine the past, BUT just sometimes the road changes. Innovation and all that. We have to remember only HD's race and win Flattrack, it could be the rules, but it still is a bike I have never been able to buy, a lightweight HD 750cc twin that slides, not highsides. Why can't HD sell me one of those for my streetbike? Buell XBS is the closest thing so far. It's a load of fun to see all the jap bike guys complain about the AMA. It's like they never knew AMA and HD have been racing together since the 1930's, about 40 years before the japanese bikes ever showed up on a racetrack. Any wonder they are trying to get together again in one little FX class to try and pull the "faithfull" into the grandstands? The France's can't give away grandstand tickets to the Daytona 200 here. In Europe 100K or more folks show up on bikes for the races. It must be something to have that kind of enthusiasm, here all we have is Brand fanatics. I've ridden lots of Brands. I like this one at the moment, who knows what's next. I've probably wadded more bikes than some of these posters have ever actually ridden. Some, not ALL, I am sure. | ||
| Spike |
I thought I recognized that crazed logic. Going for a 4th ban from badweb? | ||
| M2nc |
BadBuell82 - You have more experience than me racing a bike, but you make some comments that leave me wondering. "But you'll just be another "back marker" for the factory guys on that safety-wired 10K Suzuki, the guys at the front have the HRC/Yoshimura/Muzzy parts not the showroom stock stuff." True! But, you'll still be lapping XBRR's! Dude, you are caught in the moment! There is no way in hell a stock GIXXER750 would hang with a XBRR. To begin with the Buell out horses the stock GIXXERS and by more than advertised, allot more. Then you have all the design advantages that keep stock XB12R on Gixxers tails leaving them praying for a straightaway to go and hide in. Don't get me wrong, the GSX-R750 is my favorite Repli-racer so I am not putting the bike down by any means, but I was at Daytona and McWilliams was trading positions with the Suzuki factory bike. It was no stock street bike. The top eight positions where all held by factory sponsored machines that were pure racing bikes. The field fillers were being lapped by McWilliams as wells as the other seven factory bikes. You may have been racing a long while, but you haven't been paying attention lately. Your subjective comments contradict objective facts. (Message edited by M2nc on June 04, 2006) | ||
| M2nc |
Heads - "My Friend" Have some pride man. | ||
| Badbuell82 |
I'VE been "paying attention"! The Buells can't finish a race without breaking! Then there's those here that think Buell can stretch that antiquated envelope even further?? Yeah, maybe by using a GSXR 750 engine! | ||
| Lions |
Well...Now all of you can kick my zx10r's butt today cause like a jackass, i cut my pointer to the bone while slicing a bagel...what a dope I am! 5 stitches required...hmm..it's the clutch hand..you think I can still ride today?  | ||
| Badbuell82 |
"To begin with the Buell out horses the stock GIXXERS and by more than advertised, allot more." "A lot"?? Buell XBRR = 150 HP at the crank! Suzuki GSXR 750 = 148 HP that's a STOCK, street legal bike! Add a pipe, intake & PC III and you're easily out powering an XBRR, with about HALF the displacement! STILL with a street legal bike too! Do your homework. | ||
| Spatten1 |
"Then you have all the design advantages that keep stock XB12R on Gixxers tails leaving them praying for a straightaway to go and hide in." That is cool-aid speaking. An XB12R will not handle better than a purpose built race-replica. Do you think the Buell has a patent on wheel base and rake and trail? The Japanese factories and Superbike race efforts are not so misguided that they just do not understand as much as Buell about chassis design. The XB has an outstanding chassis, but I would not exactly shake in my boots if I had to compete with one on a repli-racer on a tight road or track. The Buell could easily be considered the equal in handling, different, but equal, depending on rider preference. It just gets a little silly to believe that the XB chassis is so much superior to race-replicas. I'll state again, no one that owns an XB and a MODERN race-replica seems to believe that the MODERN race-replica has inferior handling. It is only those that that are Buell only guys making that claim. I you wonder why I keep writing MODERN, it is because too many guys will write about the handling of thier 1988 Yamaha Phazer or thier Hurricane 1000. | ||
| Badbuell82 |
AMEN! |
