| Author | Message | ||
     Stou |
There's some posts on Superbike planet website about the new AMA strucuture. One of them talk again about XBRR.... http://superbikeplanet.com/2006/Feb/060218e.htm | ||
| Stou |
Here's it is: This just in from American Honda, noting they have now resigned from the AMA board. Of special note may be the fifth paragraph down in regards to the legality of the Buell XBRR for the FX class. . . . . . Recently, however, conflicting interests within the AMA organization have caused a division of ideology and a blurring of the vision that American Honda has always supported. Recent issues, including the departure of dedicated individuals from AMA Pro Racing and its inability to stand by its own rulebook with regard to recent Formula Xtreme considerations, have been particularly alarming. Honda believes the rulebook is a sanctioning body's most important asset. When a governing body violates the sanctity of its rulebook, it loses credibility with everyone associated with racing--the teams, the riders, the sponsors and, most importantly, the fans who rely on sanctioning bodies to create racing environments which ensure fair, balanced and exciting competition. Honda believes the AMA and other sanctioning bodies must be responsible for coordinating the efforts of all participants to ultimately benefit the sport. Honda also believes that all manufacturers, through technical committees, must participate in, and collaborate on, development and harmonization of technical rules for each class of competition. | ||
| Diablobrian |
hmmmm lets paraphrase Honda's official position: I didn't get my way, I'm taking my ball and going home. yep, really mature. They are really afraid of lil' ole Buell. They must have better notes on the Texas test than we do  | ||
| Thepup |
Or it could be a matter of principal,they feel that the Buell was allowed to skirt some of the rules.Does the Buell break some rules?I can see where it does,although AMA didn't agree,so it's in and Honda isn't happy,I doubt they are scared. | ||
| Buellerx |
Speaking of skirting the rules, there is a good article from Roadracerx about Manns win on the Honda CB750 http://www.roadracerx.com/Backmarker_021606_MannMachine.html "Honda had delivered very trick bikes. They had magnesium cases and dripped with titanium parts. (The four machines arrived with various cams and made from about 90 to nearly 100 horsepower.) In fact, they were so exotic as to be well outside the homologation rules in effect at the time. As Ron Robbins recalled archly, “I’m not saying they were cheater bikes, but the rules specified that frame had to be stock. Well, a stock bike’s frame was made of mild steel. I had to weld on the race bikes, and let’s just say, chrome-molybdenum smells totally different when you’re welding on it.” Nonetheless, the bikes cleared tech" I dont think Buell skirted the rules. But even if they did, Honda shouldnt be the one to complain about it as they have done the same thing in the past. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Their boat's been rocked. They were not complaining when they got a displacement advantage over the il4s with the rc51. When that went away they abandoned the rc51 as a racing machine. The loophole they exploited in the rules was gone. They now see Buell making use of a similar opportunity. They did not forsee the possibility of Buell building the RR when they signed off on the rule book. That's why they (as board members) allowed such broad modifications. They are afraid that too much has been "given" to Buell. They probably are not afraid of losing the 200, but they are a big picture company and have shown a pretty good talent for reading which way the wind blows in racing. (Message edited by diablobrian on February 18, 2006) | ||
| Darkducati |
I just don't see where they have broken any rules. Therefore I don't see where the AMA has done anything wrong by allowing it to compete. I personally think Honda should be a little more worried about the new R6 than the XBRR. I want more than anything for the Buell to win the 200 but I think the R6 will be a faster bike. I hope I am proven wrong. | ||
| Blake |
"Or it could be a matter of principal" I can't see it. If it were a matter of principal, and they had integrity, then Honda would withdraw from the series. They haven't. They sure did enjoy cherry picking it the last few years. Now when it looks like they may have some serious competition, they act like a spoiled child throwing a tantrum. What does it amount to? Just childish theatrics. | ||
| Thepup |
Their competition is Yamaha and they aren't complaining about them. | ||
| Darkducati |
Agreed. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
That and the fact that Honda Runs what is basically a Factory team against privateer's to build up their ego and record since they now are getting their asses spanked on just about every level. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Personally, I don't think the Yamaha is as big a threat as they'd like us to believe. They've already lied about the actual Red line limit of the bike which isn't close to 17,500rpm's. | ||
| Darkducati |
True but it is still an impressive bike and it will be equipped with one hell of a rider. I also think Honda didn't take Buell seriously when they heard the were building a bike. And I'm they would have never thought it would be ridden by someone like McWilliams. | ||
| Darkducati |
Additionally the only thing that makes the XBRR different from the other bikes is that Buell chose to make a bike and sell it where Honda won't help the privateers at all. This theory of having the privateers do your racing for you is great and it works great. Just ask Porsche. | ||
| Anonymous |
Yep, Honda is PO'd they're not running the show. There are no principles with that company. You can't even imagine the level of cheating they do. Thanks for your post, BuellerX, there's tons more instances, some of which I have directly observed. And Buell absolutely meets the rules. The brand new(aka no history or prejudice)tech inspector from the AMA came out to inspect the XBRRs and commended us for not just meeting the letter of the rules, but the spirit. In short, by the rule book, much more could have been done, but the modifications we performed were the minimum things needed to make the bike competitive and reliable. | ||
| Anonymous |
Yeah, and I love Honda's comments in their press release about "unprecedented rider support in the pits". What a load. Ask non factory riders, do some investigation. We have just shown them for what they are and they have lost face. | ||
| Blake |
"Their competition is Yamaha and they aren't complaining about them." Their competition is also factory Honda with five time Daytona 200 winner, two time Formula Extreme Champion, Miguel Duhamel and teammate and FX runner-up, Jake Zemke. Kudos to Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Ducati and all the other sport bike manufacturers for not being whiny little punks. | ||
| Blake |
DiSalvo on his FX prepped R6 is setting the pace so far in FX. \ | ||
| Blake |
But... can it last at that state of tune for 200 miles and the rigors of Daytona? | ||
| Dana P. |
It will Blake. | ||
| Crusty |
From Honda's press release: Most importantly, Honda remains committed to providing new opportunities for customers to enjoy and race Honda products That sums it up, I believe. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I do not believe Buell has broken the rules either. They have done what every team on the grid does. Read the rule book and try to make the most of any advantage they see. Honda is trying to backpedal and distance themselves from the AMA on a corporate level to decrease the embarrassment (loss of face) of losing the 200 to whomever, Buell, or Yamaha. No more cherry picking Honda. The times they are a changin' | ||
| Slaughter |
Yeah, and I love Honda's comments in their press release about "unprecedented rider support in the pits". What a load. Ask non factory riders, do some investigation. We have just shown them for what they are and they have lost face. If I'm up to the typing, I'll post Pfeiffer's comments about being dry-humped by Honda Racing last season after being promised and then lied to about access to race hardware. He's racing a Kawi out here now and will NEVER touch HRC machinery again - but for folks that think Honda's poop don't smell, they ought to get the article that Pfeiffer wrote in this month's RRW! | ||
| Mr_cuell |
I think the poorly worded press release has as much to do with this as anything. They guy who wrote that presented the bike in the wrong light and gave the competition fodder. For all the success at secrecy, I am surprised they let that release out like that. | ||
| Slaughter |
Can't find the article online so I'll excerpt some of the more relevant quotes: In the article, he describes his difficulties getting HRC parts - having to bootleg them into the US through Japanese dealers and exporters - until found out and cut off. (Keep in mind, Pfeiffer is the guy who came in 4th at Daytona in 2004 SBK on his Suzuki by maxing his and his sister's VISA cards - we're talking top of the line privateer here and not just a small time whiner.) In a letter from Rick Mitchell (Honda Pro Oils) "Please accept my most sincere wishes for a horrible 2005 season and beyond - Rookie!" Pfeiffer goes on to say "Hey, I might be a rookie, but I'll never buy, ride, borrow or look at another Honda again." and "I'm not bitter about it, I learned a lot. It just turned out to be a really expensive lesson to go out and tool around in 20th place or whatever. I won't ever buy a Honda again. I can tell you that." "They think because of where they are at that everybody should kiss their a** and I've been doing this too long to sit there and play the suck-up." Roadracing World in an editorial comment added at the end of the article said: "American Honda's Rick Mitchell got his wish: In July 2005 while riding an Aprilia at an AFM event, Pfeiffer suffered serious injuries that ended his season" I'd also add that Pfeiffer is a true professional racer, gives good exposure to his sponsors and to hear him coming out like he did carries a lot of weight in my book - it speaks volumes about Honda and their treatment of even HIGH level privateers. Sure, I'm a Buell fan and Buell racer but Pfeiffer has my best wishes in the coming season on ANYTHING BUT a honda | ||
| Diablobrian |
We are spoiled at the track though. No other brand has the trackside support that Buell does at the privateer level of ASRA (FUSA). Add to that the increased level of the contingency program and we as Buell racers have it better than most. Thank you Buell, and Henry Duga! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Honda corporate must be part psycotic. I was part of City Cure, a Cincinnati interdenominational church group. We were running a NYPUM (National Youth Program Using Minibikes) and really reaching inner city kids. We really were making a difference, and probably saved some lives. We appreciated having all the XR's to ride, but unless you count pushing 4 XR-50's that wont start back up a hill as "fun", we weren't doing for ourselves, if you know what I mean. Honda pulled the bikes from us because we refused to renounce the Christian roots of the City Cure mission statement. Joining a church was not a requirement for participation in our NYPUM program, but if a kid wanted to spend less time on the streets and get in a community of people that actually gave a shit for his or her well being, we were going to make sure they got connected to a good local church in their neighborhood. Apparently that is unnaceptable to Honda Corporate. Look at the mission statement of NYPUM, and explain to me how getting a kid integrated into a caring community group (in this case a church) is at all in conflict. Anyway, they pulled up their trailer and they took all the bikes back. It was about the stupidest corporate stunt I have ever witnessed. It implies a complete failure of rational thought within the Honda corporate structure. Made me feel a lot less bad about having wrapped one of their brand new XR-200's around a tree the previous evening. Those things track pretty straight, even with a badly bent fork  | ||
| Sarodude |
Man, Honda does some strange stuff - and a lotta folks not only let 'em get away with it, they ENCOURAGE it. When I was actively racing F125 karts, Honda motors were thought to be the thing to have. Funny thing is that you'd get people trying to look Pro going out and plastering "Honda" or Powered by Honda" or whatever on their completely unsponsored machines. They also had to pay dearly to buy Honda motors - from a company not intent on selling the racers these motors. I always thought Honda was a really cool company from an engineering perspective. CVCC / Stratified Charge. A "Compliance Link" instead of just soft bushings. Variable Valve Timing. I think Soichiro Honda was probably an interesting guy. I just dunno what the current company is doing. -Saro | ||
| Indy_bueller |
After reading all this, a thought occurred to me. Honda makes some good bikes, but they are lacking one thing. A SOUL. I just fired up my winterized, Micron-equipped Firebolt yesterday and let it idle for 20 minutes. I fell in love with it all over again, listening to it happily rumble. I don't know if Buell will ever build a bike that will truely compete against the IL4's as far as top speed, etc (I hope one day they do) but there isn't a single Yamasukihondasaki out there that has as much soul and in-your-face attitude as a Buell. In my book, the XBRR is the Granddaddy of them all. So go on and let Honda whimper and cry. It only highlights everything thats wrong with them as a company and organization. | ||
| Blake |
Bill, PLEASE send your story in to Bill O'Reilly. That is a perfect example of the secularist culture war that is being waged by some entities today and that the mainstream media denies is taking place. That is sickening. No Honda for me. |
