G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile

Buell Forum » XBoard » Buell XBoard Archives » Archive through April 07, 2005 » XB9 TFI runs posted online, session #2 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jerseyguy
Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 03:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok - I got out again today and made some more runs up on the interstate. TFI settings: 3,0,0,7.
www.patmedia.net/haynesfam . Click on "On the road data runs"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Norrisperformance
Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

At this point, if you had to take a guess,
where do you think you'll end up.
Looks like you going to need the tfi after all.
But it also looks like you could get by without it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jerseyguy
Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 08:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mike - I think this is it - 3,0,0,7. Maybe that last pot could be moved. I'm still a bit rich at high throttle openings. I guess I have to go through the hassle of unplugging the TFI to have a control run with just the race ECM. It seems to hold a good lambda at steady state conditions IE low to moderate throttle openings. When I nail it it still goes pretty rich. That means either that the race ECM does it or the TFI pot #2 (so called accelerator pump) isn't really off at position 0.

I REALLY wish Buell would make a programmable ECU.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jerseyguy
Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 08:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Mike, I just had a thought .... a little shot of nitrous at WOT ought to lean the sucker out! lol. I wonder if my Drummer could pass pieces of aluminum.....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Norrisperformance
Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2005 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Don't know, but I'm going to find out.
I'll think she'll be ok.

(Message edited by norrisperformance on April 06, 2005)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've talked to George at Dobeck about how to turn off the TFI...

He says that Fully counter-clockwise on 1, 2 and 3 are off, and the fully clock-wise on number four is off. I think this would leave the first three at 1:00 and the fourth at 11:00.

I ended up at Off, Off, Off, 8:45 w/ a 12R, K&N, Holed airbox, pulled snorkel, Force header and Force exhaust. It's still rich...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've got a Power Commander on the way, I'll give that a go...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hogs
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

M1,
I wd. think its just about impossible for you too be fat all the way around running that setup ,you got some dyno runs back to back to show that or are you just thinking its fat everywhere???
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jerseyguy
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hogs, My 9 is experiencing a similar effect as M1's from the TFI. Too rich through most of the range. It especially goes rich at high throttle openings across the RPM range. That led me to turn "off" pot #2 and then pot #3. It got better but still rich. Not that George is wrong, but I have to remove the TFI to see if "off" is really off.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hogs
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 01:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jerseyguy,
Thats strange pal, Why don`t ya try the stock ecm with your mods and the TFI? I wonder if the race ecm is at fault but even that wd. be hard to believe at high end throttle....Sounds like the TFI I got coming is a waste of $$$$,If thats the case I`ll send the sucker back and get something else before even trying it, Got a X1 power commander coming suppose to be, maybe thats the answer, So tell me how does your bike Run without the TFI and why Do you even think you need one yourself??As with all my mods now and running the D&D just got back from a ride and it Flies nothing wrong here at all, Just that I got the force almost ready to put on and thought I wd. need something for that??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jerseyguy
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 02:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well, I just removed the TFI & am hoping to get out this afternoon for some runs. We'll see. Personally, I'd rather have the race ECM over the Stock with TFI because I am coming to believe more and more that the Buell engineers really do know what the hell they are doing. I'm just an amateur having some fun.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hogs
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yup, you and me both...,The wifes xb12 just about all the same mods as mine except with the latus muffler it works A1 as well, wack it and away ya goooooooooo, just not sure why all this talk on the TFI, I guess I mean if it runs rich with the tfi then who needs it,Unless either your Drummer or The force leans it out and then I can see the reason behind it, but all posts seem to say they all run Fat..., and thats still I don`t understand, of Course all my years are with Carbs, But if ya throw a open can and open the air up on carbs one will run LEan Don`t understand why the same isn``t true for Fuel injected If All things being equal, Do ya think that if one makes a one notch at a time and then ride for an hour or so whatever that wd. help the ecm to learn , just guessing here...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Glitch
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah, but it'll run lean on the bottom with the race ECM, if you cut your air box.
I'm now runnin' at 4, 1, 1, 7:30
runnin' really good, except at heavy acceration it pinged yesterday afternoon.
I'm gonna change plugs tonight.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 05:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a Dyno run that indicates that it runs rich everywhere. VERY rich from 2200-2800.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hogs
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

M1 did you do back up runs, like three runs back to back with all the same settings, etc.etc.??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Odie
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just based on my decreased mileage alone I can say it runs rich!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hogs
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Odie,
How does yours run,I know you have your own pipe system on there , Does it haul SSA, no bucking, falling flat on its face etc.etc., and what settings are you using on the Tfi and are you happy with them for now or maybe better words just leaving it where it is and riding for now..??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

M1combat
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I only have one run, but they all looked the same.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jerseyguy
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 06:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I made my runs without the TFI & got the data but haven't had time to analyze it completely.

Initial impressions include that lambda goes way down both with & without the TFI on high throttle position openings across the rpm range (.7 to .8).

Lambda at low RPMs and low throttle openings is leaner without the TFI, like around .95 to 1 (too lean for power just about right for pollution.

So it appears that the TFI does good down low & lower midrange at settings 3,0,0,7 on a XB9. I have to study the data more. I may try the stock ECM with the TFI next.

I'm off to Bragg POT tomorrow for 4 days.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Glitch
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 06:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

On my dyno runs (without TFI-with Odie pipe- with cut air box, 03 XB9S) it ran so lean Steve thought the sniffer was broken. I'm running the proto-type Odie pipe.
It didn't get rich until closed loop (after 3500rpm).
I guess I should have been clearer about that.
I've not had time to get a dyno done after TFI yet.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Briz31
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 08:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I guess it all comes back to the issue:
TFI was designed for the STOCK ECM, that appears to be where it has it's biggest potential gain.

On the RACE ECM it's gain is limited as both the ECM and TFI are trying to achieve the same thing.
Hence you have to use limited settings for a minor improvement, and with the costs involved it just seems a good way to flush your $$ down the gurgler.

Well that's my 2c.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jerseyguy
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 09:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Briz - I'm good at wasting $ - just ask my wife....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Glitch
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 10:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've never had the stock ECM.
After my dyno seein' how lean it ran in open loop I saw no other alternative.
I needed a jet kit, a jet kit is what I got.
If I had a stock ECM I'd try 'em both and use to one with best results...but I don't.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Norrisperformance
Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I know I have said it before.
My 12 with race ecm ran over 16,
so I had to have more fuel.
I've had the bike on two different dynos
so I know it was very lean.
The tfi was money well spent.

My bike doesn't surge, skip, hic up, spit, sputter
or fart. For a Buell it just flat a55 flies.

I have no idea why we are all having different
results but clearly we are. GO FIGURE!

Maybe my ecm was built on a Friday
or maybe my exhaust flows better.
Who knows, sure would be nice if
everyone had easy access to a dyno.

Drag bikes run a mixture of 12.6
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gsxr_is_gone
Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 05:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well I have dynoed my bike from stock up to the mod race kit.

Stock the AF at bottom and cruise where is should be. From 2700 to about 3700 the AF was about 12:1, from 3700 up to redline AF about 11:1

With race pipe and stock ecu the bike was lean atlow end and cruise,but still between 11 and 12 AF WOT.

With the race ecu, AF for lower and cruise again where what they should be. At WOT the AF was arould 12:1.

With the mod race pipe, tfi, and cut airbox, lower and cruise
AF are fine and I'm running 12.5:1 to 13:1 at WOT

tfi settings are 4, 2, 1, and 8

The bike runs great and I'm really happy with the mod race kit.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Glitch
Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 06:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have no idea why we are all having different
results but clearly we are.

Just goes to show we all have different bikes, even though we have the same brand of bike.
Also shows why my settings may not be good for someone else, and why a dyno is important when playing with settings.
Exhaust design, intake design, weather, it all comes into play, not to mention dynos are different as well.
In open loop mine was closer to 18!
Ive been on two different dynos as well, two different kinds of dyno.
One had me at around 65 HP, the other around 85HP.
The curves were close to the same, the AF ratio was the same as well.
Guess which dyno I like the most; )
I'm not spitting, sputtering, or surging either, although I was with the stock TFI settings.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sokota
Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 06:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

GSXR....what mods did you do to race pipe ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ingemar
Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2005 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have no idea why we are all having different
results but clearly we are.


And it shows that you can't download someone else's map into your PCIII or equivalent device and expect anything more than mediocre results (unless you're very lucky).
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gsxr_is_gone
Posted on Friday, April 08, 2005 - 01:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I cut out the inner tailpipe and made the hole to match the size of the larger tailpipe. The sound is a little deeper at idle, not to loud for the neighborhood, and louder when your on the gas. It works great.
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional.
Password:
E-mail:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration