| Author | Message | ||
     Bossanova |
Has anyone had to replace their starter gear yet? I'm beginning to experience hard starting and dead spots (starter free-wheels) when trying to crank up the bike. I thought maybe it was the solenoid but talking to another 1125 owner I'm told it may be the gear itself. | ||
| Timebandit |
i haven't had starter problems, though i did disassemble the starter ring gear and sprag clutch assembly when i was inside of the bike changing my rotor. to check the starter ring gear for missing teeth, you're going to have to look on the back of the rotor. the starter gear is on the back. it would really amaze me if you've lost teeth. are you getting a lot of rattling noise when you crank? if not, the first things i'd check are the obvious things, like starter pinion gear and starter friction clutch. i would be surprised if you've got a bad starter ring gear. of course, the only way to know for sure is to open it up. (Message edited by timebandit on April 16, 2012) | ||
| Yobub97 |
Bossanova, That's how my starter problems began, it just gets worse. A one way bearing - sprag clutch is between the starter gear and the rotor (connected to the crankshaft). You have to take the ignition cover, rotor nut and rotor off to get at the sprag clutch. Wait till see how much the sprag clutch costs - $180. The bad news is that the sprag clutch disintegrates into small metal pieces that drop into the oil. | ||
| Bossanova |
Yobub97 thanks for posting up this info. This is definitely what it is. FML $180.. | ||
| Froggy |
Boss, is this the same thing that was happening to you? Whatever it was, it only happened when the bike was sitting outside while it is below freezing, and I never figured it out before the weather got warm again. | ||
| Yobub97 |
Froggy, That's how mine started. It gradually got worse. I thought the engine was backfiring and rotating off the starter, but soon, the starter button would just spin the starter motor without engaging the engine. I could get it started by putting it in gear and rocking it, but all I was doing was jamming the sprag bearing so it would grab. Wait till you see all the little bits of metal on your magnetic oil plug (which is a quick way to check for this problem without taking the cover off). As for being a winter problem - I suggest the sluggish oil might be affecting a worn spraq bearing. Hope is stays away in the summer, but I suspect you will be fixing it by the fall. | ||
| Froggy |
I did an oil change on it yesterday, the drain plug didn't look any worse than normal. I'll keep replacement parts in mind, I'll have it done at the next valve service. My stator and rotor were replaced last year, what is the possibility the tech damaged this during the swap? | ||
| Yobub97 |
Froggy, It might be a possibility, if it were jammed on without rotating it into place, some of the cylindrical bearings may have been damaged (so they drag or wedge to prevent the whole bearing from securely wedging on the shaft). Mine was gone by the time I got to it, the cylindrical bearings were looking like ovals and some of them had come out. The little springs that hold the bearings in place were at the bottom of the oil resevoir and in the magnetic plug. I guess it isn't too bad, after all the clutch is constantly releasing small bits and pieces into the oil which gets filtered before going back into the bearings. | ||
| Timebandit |
Bub, you're talking about the cylindrical bearings in the sprag clutch, right? I've had discussions with other forum members about how easily the rotor/sprag clutch/starter gear assembly is supposed to go on and come off. In my experience, you don't need a rotor puller to get the rotor off, it just lifts right off of the crankshaft. And once the rotor is off, if you place it face down on the bench, the stater gear should lift right out of the sprag clutch using only a slow/gentle rotating motion with your wrist. It should come off so easily that gravity holds the rotor down on the bench while you lift the starter gear out. Similarly, when reassembling everything, all that's required is to properly rotate the sprag clutch to bring everything into alignment, and it should drop right into place with proper alignment. Everything should slip right together with a gentle slip-fit, no coaxing required. There have been posts on the forum where people have mentioned "coaxing", "forcing" and/or "banging" on things to get them back together. It wouldn't surprise me to see things fail if someone found it necessary to use force to reassemble everything, as the alignment of the parts would have to be off. While I would think that a shadetree mechanic could easily make this sort of mistake, I don't think that there's any way that a properly trained tech would have this kind of problem. In your case Frank, I wouldn't try to find fault with the tech who did your stator/rotor work. Chances are that those chronic starting problems that you had with drained/undercharged batteries just took their toll on the starter, and the parts just wore out. | ||
| Froggy |
Yea I'm not blaming him, just curious about the possibility of damage being that I personally haven't mucked around under that cover. Since the rotor has to come off again, I might need to see about switching to a 09 stator but with the oil hole rotor. | ||
| Yobub97 |
Timebandit, The sprag one-way bearing (starter clutch) has many cylindrical bearings held together with two retainer rings and a long lightweight spring. It is placed into a bearing assembly on the back of the rotor. When the rotor is installed on the crankshaft, it slides onto a bearing surface provided by the starter gears. Rotating it on one way "locked it in place", rotating it the other way made it spin free. I had to use a "puller" using three of the sprag clutch mounting bolts and the thread lock applied to each and the rotor nut was substantial. I resorted to using an impact wrench to get the nut/bolts off, then the rotor did not want to budge - so I used the puller (nice and easy). | ||
| Bossanova |
Yeah Froggy thats it exactly. Thanks. Rocking it in gear is ok for street use but when its up on stands with tire warmers it suxs. I had my stator changed about 1K miles ago so who knows... Timebandit and Yobub thanks for the descriptive explanations. Besides the sprag clutch itself, can you guys recommend a parts list to accomplish this? Should I dare buy a used one? Is it the small collar looking thing with roller bearings in the middle of this?  This one appears to have a roller missing?? Oh and I changed the oil about a month ago and the drain plug was pretty hairy so this also confirms this thing is failing. Thanks for the info- | ||
| Bossanova |
Weepy clutch cylinder, stator/reg.. Sprag Clutch!! Come on down, your the next contestant on the Buell 1125 problem show!! | ||
| Timebandit |
I saw those pinwall parts that arrived on ebay last night. The price is right, but ... I won't bid on anything that's defective; it doesn't matter that they describe the defects as a "small scratch." If the part is defective, sellers tend to under-describe the problem. I avoid those part out shops -- especially when their tiny 1" pictures won't enlarge, when they respond like jerks if you ask for better photos, and when they have a no-return policy. I know that some people may think that store is a great place, but I refuse to do business with a seller who insults me when I ask for a better photo by telling me he doesn't have time to help me. I noticed in the Pinwall video for those parts auctions that prior to disassembly, the bike's charging system output was in the high 12s/low 13s. And to put icing on the cake, those guys were revving the bike in neutral hard enough to make the overrev warning light come on. What Dumbasses! I'd never buy a part from someone who does that on purpose, and then disassembles the bike. I also don't like the idea of supporting a professional chop shop that takes running bikes that are constructive/cosmetic totals, but are otherwise serviceable, and then destroys them for parts. A running 1125 that's repairable should be restored, not destroyed. To me destroying a running bike for parts is like killing a Whooping Crane. I've got plenty of reasons to avoid those guys. Just my $0.02. | ||
| 420ss |
I know this topic is 3 years old but to validate timebandit's post about pinwall parts, I purchased a frame from them that they said had slight scratches, and they completely forgot to mention that the drain plug was completely stripped out, I had to replace my tank/frame after the shop I had working on my bike cracked the frame installing new steering stem bearings, but to their defense it was ROCKY MOUNTAIN ATV's fault they sold me the wrong bearings then when I contacted them about the mistake they told me that the bearings they sent me were the right ones that they have to have a tight fit, so my mechanic tried to machine press them in and cracked the frame, then ROCKY MOUNTAIN ATV had the nerve to tell me it was my fault the frame cracked because I should not of had my mechanic try to install the bearings that they sold me for my bike, after they verified that they were the right ones, |
