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Buell Forum » EBR & Buell in the News » Archive through June 29, 2011 » Your tax dollars spent to bail out Harley Davidson « Previous Next »

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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Congratulations. Your tax dollars were spent to send a fortune to Italy, while shutting down Buell, while putting the screws to the union while preparing to outsource manufacturing to India.

Something for everyone to love. : (

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2010/12/01/AR2010120106870.html

My hope when the whole thing was going down was that the Buffet loan would come due, and Buffet would suddenly control a good chunk of the company, and Buell would be saved or sold.

Now we know how Harley paid off the loan...
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Jimidan
Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 04:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Do you prefer that your $30 million of your tax dollars be spent on incentives to build an Ark?


http://www.wfpl.org/2010/12/01/in-depth-beshear-defends-tax-breaks-for-theme-park/

(Message edited by Jimidan on December 02, 2010)
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2010 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

At least funding the ark isn't funding the active undermining of one an innovative American corporate division that was going toe to toe on a global level with the some of the most refined pieces of machinery ever built... and succeeding well.

And at least the Ark money wasn't my tax dollars (and at the time, stockholder dollars) going to support Harley Davidson executives and Italian hookers.
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Bcmike
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-industry/ harley-at-centre-of-23-billion-bailout/16312.html

Another article about the bailout.
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Court
Posted on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interesting reading . . Harley-Davidson (and others) played the American people for a bunch of idiots.


quote:

The big American banks get all of the scrutiny for taking bailout funds during the great recession of 2008. It wasn’t just the big banks and U.S. automakers that went begging to the government for loans during the financial crisis. There were many foreign banks and American firms outside of the banking sector that needed Uncle Sam’s money to stay afloat. So, what firms would have gone under without government funds?


According to an article in The Washington Post, Caterpillar (CAT), Barclays (BCS), Verizon (VZ), Toyota (TM), Harley Davidson (HOG) and UBS (UBS) all needed bailout money to stay afloat. Add them to the list with General Electric (GE) and every other company that was in danger of going under in 2008 and 2009. Companies were so desperate for access to government funds that I expected to read that Best Buy (BBY) was converting to a bank holding company.

These companies get deals that you and I would never qualify for. They borrow money at interest rates that are so low that they basically pay nothing in interest. Once things are normal, they go back to doing business as usual. How did these companies qualify for a bailout? What systemic risk did Toyota or Harley Davidson impose to the U.S. economy? Too many companies are engaging in the practice of privatizing their gains and publicizing their losses.

Source: http://seekingalpha.com/article/239913-bailout-fun ds-not-just-for-u-s-banks-automakers?source=yahoo

Why is it when firms like these get trillions of dollars in assistance from the government and those loans are never referred to as corporate welfare?


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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 07:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thats the part that burns me the most... privatizing the profits and socalizing the risk.

And what about Buffet? He took a risky bet on HD, and one upside of it was that if the company tanked he basically owned it. So that bet played out, and the government stepped in at the last minute and changed the outcome by paying off the loan.

I don't know if Buffet / Berkshire would have done a better job of running Harley Davidson, but he sure as hell couldn't have done any worse...
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I wouldn't care if it were Harley-Davidson or McDonald's . . . I'm not altogether sure why the federal government is giving billions of "stimulus money" to companies and COUNTRIES that don't need it.


quote:

Southern Copper Corp., a Phoenix- based mining company that boasts some of the industry’s largest copper reserves, plans to invest $800 million this year in projects such as a new smelter and a more efficient natural-gas furnace.

Such spending sounds like just what the Federal Reserve had in mind in 2008 when it cut interest rates to near zero and started buying $1.7 trillion in securities to spur job growth. Yet Southern Copper, which raised $1.5 billion in an April debt offering, will use that money at its mines in Mexico and Peru, not the U.S., said Juan Rebolledo, spokesman for parent Grupo Mexico SAB de CV of Mexico City.

Southern Copper’s plans illustrate why the Fed’s second round of bond buying may not reduce unemployment, which has stalled near a 26-year high. Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and his colleagues appear to be fueling a foreign-investment surge, underscoring the difficulty of stimulating the economy through monetary policy with interest rates already near record lows.




Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-17/bernanke- s-cheap-money-stimulus-spurs-corporate-investment- outside-u-s-.html
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Arbalest
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So the problem seems to be NOT that the govenment is offering stimulus money, but what the companies getting it are doing with it. The problem right now is that big business is swimming in cash. There is no incentive for big business to hire. They are making money with less labor. The problem is with small business. Something needs to be done for small business.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You're just being selfish Court. Haven't you heard? We "just want to spread the wealth around." You didn't think that meant just in America did you? What are you some kind of jingoist American patriot or something?

Blake (proud American jingoist patriot)
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Moxnix
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 01:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Why loan badly needed money to small business at low interest rates when the Fed can delay and dance until rates are up, by whatever means, and they can make a better return? The Fed being a private bank, it's purpose is to make money for someone.
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Court
Posted on Thursday, December 09, 2010 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>>You're just being selfish Court. Haven't you heard? We "just want to spread the wealth around."

I am learning. I tried "wealth distribution" for the first time yesterday.

I left the office, headed to Columbia to teach. I knew I had only about 1 minute left on the meter, my Muni-Meter ticket showed something like 4:41 and it was already 4:41pm.

I got in the car and just as I was getting ready to start it the TEA walked up, stood in front of the car, scanned the VIN with her little hand held device and started writing.

WHAT????? . . . .

I told her "but I'm leaving" and the meter just ran out less than 60 seconds ago. She kept herself positioned so I couldn't move, slapped the ticket on the windshield and walked away.

I had gone to the bank at 15th and 3rd yesterday and got a crisp $100 bill. Every year at Xmas I do that once in a Salvation Army kettle.

This year I went BACK to the bank . . . got change and a $62.00 money order. I put the money order in the orange envelope, walked out of the bank, mailed it, and put the $38.00 in the kettle.

The current economic policies of the nation are much like this. I don't care for them and I didn't care for what I did.


>>>.Why loan badly needed money to small business at low interest rates when the Fed can delay and dance until rates are up, by whatever means, and they can make a better return?

I have a story along these lines that is so amazing it's off the charts. I am penning a letter to the State Attorney's General but I don't think I have the guts to send it.

We are truly in EXTRAORDINARY times.

I'm not sure they realize it but the very folks that the chest pounders are demanding pay higher taxes are the very folks who have the capacity to hire AND to pass higher taxes on to those that the tax increase would shelter.

I've stopped fretting and relegated myself to the sheer entertainment of watching as a group, composed primarily of millionaires, executes an economic policy that nearly mirrors that that has brought prior republics to their knees.

Know what happens when you borrow $0.40 of every $1.00 you spend . . . . try it sometime. It works . . . roughly . . the same on the personal level as it does on the Macro level. For those of you who took a Macro Economics class you likely recall the chapter on . . . never mind . . . I'm sure it's changed since 1972.

: )







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Greatnorthrider
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OMG! $62 dollars for a PARKING TICKET?!!!
Man am I glad I live way out in the country!!
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Court
Posted on Friday, December 10, 2010 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Typo . . . it was $65.00 . . . those are the cheap ones. I get about 3 of the $65.00 per week for having a pickup illegally tagged as a private, as opposed to commercial vehicle, and not having the state mandated camper shell and seats affixed in the bed.

Some of the tickets are $125.00. The key, in NYC, is not to get towed . . . that opens an entirely new chapter in your life.

Fun town.
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Crackhead
Posted on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 08:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"pickup illegally tagged as a private"

wtf??
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Court
Posted on Monday, December 13, 2010 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>"pickup illegally tagged as a private"

Yep . . . welcome to New York



quote:

What pick-up trucks qualify for passenger class plates?

A pick up truck that is not changed and has an open bed can qualify for passenger class plates if the truck:

is used only for non-commercial purposes, and
has an unladen weight of 5,500 lbs. or less (the unladen weight of your pick-up truck is listed on the title certificate and on the door sticker), and
does not have any business advertisements on the truck.
How to apply

You are not required to apply for passenger class plates for your pick-up truck. You can continue to use commercial plates on your pick-up truck.

The unladen weight of your pick-up truck is stamped on a metal plate and located on the door of your vehicle. The unladen weight is also listed on your title certificate. The unladen weight is different from the maximum gross weight (MGW) listed on your registration documents. Before you apply, make sure that the unladen weight of the truck is 5,500 lbs. or less.

Passenger class plates on a pick-up truck do not change the MGW listed on the registration documents or the unladen weight listed on the title certificate. Passenger class plates on a pick-up truck do not change the registration fees. The DMV requests the unladen weight to verify that your pick-up truck is eligible for passenger class plates. The DMV does not change the unladen weight or the MGW.

You must apply in person at a DMV office. You cannot apply by mail, by phone, over the Internet, or by e-mail. Complete form MV-82 (Vehicle Registration / Title Application). Make sure to complete section 6, question 4. You must bring your title certificate and proofs of identity and date of birth, and surrender your commercial plates. Remove frames and fasteners before you surrender a vehicle plate or vehicle plates. The DMV office will not accept a vehicle plate with a frame or any fasteners attached. The fee is $16.00.

The registrant of a pick-up truck that is leased or rented must submit a form provided by the leasing company or owner of the pick-up truck. The form must certify that the vehicle will not be used for commercial purposes.

The DMV office will issue new registration documents and standard passenger plates with anew number. If you had custom plates or personalized plates, your new registration documents will list the numbers from your custom plates or personalized plates and the standard series plates. The DMV will send new passenger custom or personalized plates by mail.

If your registration will expire in less than 60 days, you can renew your registration at a DMV office and change to passenger class plates when you renew.

You can also get passenger plates with no additional fee when you register a pick-up truck for the first time.

Pick-up trucks that weigh more than 5,500 pounds:

If you have a pick-up truck that has an unladen weight of 5,501 lbs. or more, you cannot apply for passenger class plates through the process described above. You must modify the truck to qualify for a passenger class registration and passenger class plates. Learn more about vehicle modifications for registration class changes.


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Saxon59
Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2010 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Man am I glad I live in the country!Where I live it's almost mandatory to drive a 1/2ton 4x4 pickup or SUV and most people own a 3/4 or 1 ton 4x4.That kind of crap would'nt fly,especialy when most gov. vehicles (police,fire etc.) are trucks.
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Ulyranger
Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2011 - 12:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That is NYC revenue generation crap. Upstate trucks are treated differently. In fact the DMVs readily (and almost to the point of pushing) issue Passenger plates for PUs.

It is amazing how some municipalities can play fast and loose with State wide statute authority.
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Skinstains
Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 10:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll have to post a pic of the $205.00 NYC no parking sign in my garage. You stay away from them don't you Court ? As for the pickemup truck cap thing is only in the city proper. At least thats what it was way back when. They also won't let you on any of those good (relatively of course)fast roads in a pickemup.
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Court
Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 05:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's pretty much the deal . . I got another yesterday at 4:14pm. I'll send the appeal in this morning and it'll go away. If the TEA had waited 2 minutes he could have gigged me for overtime parking for $65. Too lazy.

Access to the "Parkways" (a word that means something in NYC) is the reason I fun a non-commercial tag.
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