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Madduck
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:21 pm: | 
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I think M1 is referring to the first rule of racing.
Anyone faster than me has to be cheating!
Every racer on the start line knows that if the bike doesn't break, a competitor doesnt't screw up in front of him and the team manager got the paperwork done right he will win. Attitude is critical to being on the podium. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:36 pm: |
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>>>>Anyone faster than me has to be cheating!
Ain't it the truth!
Last year a friend, who must go unnamed, broke the long standing Carl's Speed Shop record on his unfaired pit bike.
The resultant trip to tech produced one of the most thorough tear downs and inpsections in Bonneville history.
The good thing is that the record is now cast in stone.
Ya gotta love racing! |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:43 pm: |
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Jima4media,
"The problem is you can buy a complete Yamaha FZ-1 for less than that, and it will kicks the XBRRs ass on the street."
Didn't know you took up fishing.
Telewoodski,
The folks at superbikeplanet.com apparently missed the Formula Xtreme rule governing air-cooled twin engine modifications. Might want to inform them that said engine modifications are allowed to be "unlimited." The XBRR is based on the XB9R/XB12R street bikes and is legal as is for AMA Formula Xtreme. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:50 pm: |
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>>>The problem is you can buy a complete Yamaha FZ-1 for less than that
Yeah. . . but then you are dubbed a "Yamaha owner" and trying to convince chicks you are "vibrant and exciting" (not unlike myself) becomes nearly impossible.
Two guys go into a bar.....
GUY ONE: "I snagged one of the new Buell XBRR race bikes".
GUY TWO: "I went down to Hal's Chainsaw, Snowmobile and Bike" world and bought myself a new Yamaha FZ-1.
Who's the envy of every guy in the bar as he dances out the door with the chick?
I work at a much lower level than my Elf-Pals in East Troy.
Take the XBRR spec sheet....print it out on fine 32# paper...wad that baby up and throw in away. This bike is HOT.
Questions? |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:50 pm: |
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Rex,
Two valves per cylinder.
Specs and info are at...
http://www.buell.com/en_us/bikes_gear/bikespecs.asp?bike=xbrr
More stuff at...
http://www.buell.com/en_us/mania/racing/xbrr.asp
and...
http://www.buell.com/en_us/news_events/newsdetail.asp?news_id=783
See you at Daytona? |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:54 pm: |
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Questions?
you bet -- er, with all deserved respect and all, "vibrant and exciting?"
hmmmmm |
Halbard
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:56 pm: |
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If none of this technology is ever going to hit the street, then why even bother.... retooling to make the new engine, all the engineering of the frame, everything for just 50 bikes to try to up their name out there?
People buy on monday whats raced on sunday... maybe not the whole monte race machine, but if I saw an awesome machine race on Sunday, only to be told you can't have anything like it once I get into the showroom, I'm walking back out again. Or, if you tell me to buy something for $10,000, but for another $15,000 and three months wrenching in the garage, I can almost get close to the power and ride of a $10,000 bike somewhere else....
This had better make a transition to the street... if not, it is ALOT of wasted effort. If Buell is not interested in competing on the street... then why be concerned with little things like advertising, or even making this bike at all?
I really hope this represents a new idea in the Buell company... getting serious about providing the mass market with what it wants... a serious American made street machine. |
Jima4media
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 01:57 pm: |
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I'm pretty sure the AMA defines the motor as the part that needs to available in a street configuration, not just the frame.
Should be interesting to see how this development plays out.
AMA Pro Racing CEO Scott Hollingsworth jumped or was pushed out of that position yesterday. He would have made the decision on the legality of the XBRR in the Daytona 200 race. Now someone else will have to make that decision in the next 40 days or so.
(Message edited by jima4media on January 25, 2006) |
Buellerx
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 02:09 pm: |
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Take the Poll
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/getVote.jsp?pn=buell0123
Interesting Results. The Japs do a great job of marketing their propaganda. Most people think that no matter what Buell or anyone else does, Japan cant lose.
I think Honda is afraid and is setting the stage to say that if Buell wins, it is not legitimate because they cheated. |
Rex
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 02:25 pm: |
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SouperPoll :: The new Buell - legal or not?
Is Buell's new 2007 Buell XBRR legal for the AMA's Formula Extreme class?
Yes, it's based on the XB engine and chassis which are street equipment, even if the XBRR itself can't be ridden on the street.
62 votes (17.8%)
No, Formula Extreme rules state that the class requires "motorcycles produced for US street use" which this machine clearly was not.
80 votes (22.9%)
Does it matter? All the money in the world couldn't make a Buell win races against a factory 600 FX bike.
207 votes (59.3%)
Vote total: 349
Looks like a lot of motorcyclist think the buell doesn't stand a chance. Sure hope it makes it on the podium, and gets news far and wide...would be very exciting....
Just wondering....If you are redesigning new motor parts, why not 3 or 4 valves? is the two valves a requirement to run 1300 cc's?
REX |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 02:55 pm: |
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"AMA Pro Racing sources said this week that based on the fact that the rules for an air-cooled Twin in Formula Extreme are so wide, and allow for so many modifications, that it is their belief that the XBRR is legal for the Formula Extreme class."
My personal opinion is that this is the most relevant part of the statement. Remember... The tech inspector is second only to God on race day, and if God is racing... |
Oldog
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 03:32 pm: |
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If none of this technology is ever going to hit the street
I will be supprised if it does not,
on 4 valves, looking at the long stroke (street) version it was piston speed IMO, that was a limit.
the new rocker boxes shuggest that it may be push rod but, its been set up for those speeds
just using the press & badwebb pics, that mill has all kinds of tricks, many may make their way to the street. and I would bet there may be a 4 valve head or 2 that is setting in a corner some where, they had a reason why, we just don't know it.
the whole cam chest has got me scratching my head
Im trying to figure where the oil pump for the mill went, Im thinking inside the primary cover
My 02$ let the Buell kicking of asses begin! Its time americas' oldest bike maker & their young upstart subsideary, showed 'em some things, its good to see it's the AMA and not the JMA}
Me I would like to see Buell mounted riders 1,2,3 on the podium
 Rice it's whats for dinner. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 03:43 pm: |
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looking at the long stroke (street) version it was piston speed IMO, that was a limit.
Oldog, IIRC, Erik specifically stated in Cycle World last year that the XB12 was RPM limited by the long-term durability of the rod bearings at high RPM. The valve train is definitely not holding it back.
I've been trying to see what external differences in the engine we can identify. See the thread on the XB board:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/171143.html?1138221072 |
Oldog
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:01 pm: |
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Ok there Who,
I did the numbers with the old tuber bore/stroke for piston speed if 4500 fpm? was the border that should not be crossed then 44~~ would be close, I have never heard that the big end rod bearings were a limit, it makes perfect sense too
as there is a lot of force acting on that bearing
what do you think of the heads with the integral rocker boxes, the motor is short stroke, the valve springs while NOT the xb's are the same config lotta cool shiznet!
[that was the context for my comments about why not 4 valves]
(Message edited by oldog on January 25, 2006) |
Bluzm2
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:06 pm: |
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I still think it's cool and can't wait to see it in action.
On that same vein, will Buell display the RR at upcoming IMC events in the Buell booth?
The Minneapolis IMS is coming up in a little over a week.
I'd sure like to see it there! |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:11 pm: |
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quote: will Buell display the RR at upcoming IMC events
I was thinking the same thing |
Light_keeper
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:12 pm: |
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It's going to be great fun, win or loose it will be exciting. I'm sure that there will be some suprises, and the road will be hard and if the other side gets beat'n too bad the rules will change. However I do know what corner I will be in. The name will get out there further than it has before and that afterall is the real payoff. Pride in what you ride. |
Kuuud
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:36 pm: |
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I'm not a 'techie' but remember hearing that the reason to stay with a 2 valve head in an air cooled race bike has to do with heat and head warp. The example used was the 2 valve Suzuki drag bikes. |
Jima4media
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:30 pm: |
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All the AMA has to do is take a blood sample of the XBRR Sportster motor. If the DNA is the same as the 1957 variety, then it has "evolved".
If it a new species, then it is an "Intelligent Design".
If it is an "Intelligent Design" then it must meet and greet the street, before it can compete.
 |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:35 pm: |
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/Eyore voice
Well... If they need a volunteer buyer for the street version chalk me up as first on the list. Ya win some and ya lose some I guess... |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:49 pm: |
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>>>All the AMA has to do is take a blood sample
I suspect that, just call it a wild guess knowing the anal attentive team involved, that Dr. Henry Lee has done his thing long before we saw this iteration of the XB. |
Whodom
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:50 pm: |
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If Chuck Norris rides a motorcycle, it's a Buell XBRR.
Oops, sorry, wrong thread... |
Panic
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:15 pm: |
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Depends on whose definition of "based on" is used.
Based on hardly means "looks somewhat like, but made from completely different non-interchangable castings".
1. RR cannot be built from anything else
2. RR parts do not fit anything else (as in, retrofit not possible to the extent of making an XB competitive)
3. therefore it is not based on the XB9 in the sense of being a higher point of development
4. but is that what the rule intended to define?
And, finally, the decision whether it's legal will not be based on a strict reading of the rules, but rather:
1. money
2. politics
3. popularity
I'm sure all companies are equally capable of a hissy-fit if the ruling goes against them (as we see every day in NASCAR). There are no good sports in this sport - except the racers. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:25 pm: |
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"There are no good sports in this sport - except the racers."
Ummm, have you been on a racetrack?
(Message edited by M1Combat on January 25, 2006) |
Xlcr
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 06:52 pm: |
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I think the one thing this proves beyond all else is that Honda is worried. |
Southern Marine
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 07:00 pm: |
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My local HD/Buell here in Jacksonville, NC said they put in an order for one. I hope they get it. I told them I can't wait to see it. They have a race bike they usually display in their store. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 07:01 pm: |
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I think the one thing this proves beyond all else is that Honda is worried.
or jealous...
What brand of motorcycle stirs up such passion, good or bad?
I've not seen a brand have as many passionate haters as lovers. |
Medic_2512
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 07:23 pm: |
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I think the XBRR will be VERY competitive against the 600cc bikes. But come on, its got almost 1400cc and its not even street legal, how much fun is it gonna be beating up on the Japs with a motor almost 3 times the size? Hardly fair reguardless of the circumstances.
I think Buell should have put some time, money, and effort into a totally new motor(overhead cam, multi valved) to smoke the Japs with! No one is holding a gun to Buell and saying you have to race a 50y/o designed motor thats aircooled and has 2 valves.
Give us a modern motor for our Buells please! |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 08:32 pm: |
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No one is holding a gun to Buell and saying you have to race a 50y/o designed motor thats aircooled and has 2 valves.
Not a gun perhaps, but at the end of the day HD does hold all the cards ($), and dictates what Buell can and can not do. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 08:33 pm: |
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Besides, one must remember, the XBRR is only the first step. |
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XBRR Threads Consolidated Here! »