| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketman |
My point was NOT to bash BMW (I drive one, I love it!) but to point out how tough it is to break into racing and immed. succeed. I know exactly what your point was despite it not adding up. Your choice of BMW makes no sense. Unless that is, you were trying to put Buells tentative efforts in good company with BMW's F1 efforts by making out even a giant amongst giants in motor sport won't necessarily succeed from get go. But BMW have a great racing history, even on two wheels. Buell don't. Poor choice and misleading to the uninformed. Nothing to do with testosterone. Just facts. Rocket | ||
| Brucelee |
R Man, I recommend you go back to school and brush up on reading comprehension. And, chill out, this is such an inane topic. I could give a Rat's A.. what BMW or Buell do at the race track. | ||
| Rocketman |
Bruce, I'd never expect you to be able to see the stupidity of your own comment. Of course, I knew that any rebuttal to your plain dumb comment would have us arguing. Never the less comments like that need addressing so as not to mislead. Especially those, in particular Americans, who have little or no interest in Formula 1. Just so as we're on the same page............ Take a brilliant company, a great set of racing partners, add some billions and you have .......squat. My answer to that ridiculous comment was simply to point out some pertinent facts about BMW in F1, as well as motor sport in general. Where the hell the Buell comparison comes into it I don't know, but I don't recall chucking any insults your way. I suppose I deserve Chill out man and you have some testosterone issues that need attending to as I knew you'd go down that road. You're an egotistical prick and you always have been. Your ridiculous handle sez it all. Bruce Lee my arse. More like Karate Kid. Rocket | ||
| M1combat |
Be nice ladies... No need for the purse bashing shenannigans... Bruce... To note... BMW has generally done well in racing. The "BMW POWERED" cars haven't been doing exceedingly well lately, but keep in mind that they are only BMW Powered"... They haven't exactly had the best of luck with chassis designers... I mean really... Norbert Haug (That's the aero-dynamicist for Williams yes?) and his walruss tusk nose cone??? WTF? You're supposed to be moving air up or out Norbert... Not channel it towards the center of the car and then try to make it turn... If you're going to do that you'll need to raise the sidepods and we all know that's a bad idea... Anyhow... The engine was always good  . Can anyone tell me what BMW stands for WITHOUT doing any searching? Can anyone tell me why the BMW symbol is what it is WITHOUT doing any searching? | ||
| Jscott |
Blau Mit Weiss? Bavarian Motorworks? A propeller? | ||
| Jimidan |
Brucelee sez: "R Man, I recommend you go back to school and brush up on reading comprehension. And, chill out, this is such an inane topic. I could give a Rat's A.. what BMW or Buell do at the race track." Not even in the rain?  If you don't care what Buell does at the track, why are you even reading, much less commenting in: The Bad Weather Bikers' Buell Motorcycle Enthusiasts' Discussion Forum » RACING! » Racing - Circuit/Road Racing » Mid-O results You are lost man, go back to the Topics and do not chose RACING.  These threads are for those who DO care about racing. jimidan | ||
| M1combat |
"Can anyone tell me why the BMW symbol is what it is WITHOUT doing any searching?" "A Propeller" Why ... Not what . I think you searched though . | ||
| What_the |
They started by building airplane engines? heritage symbol I was it on a TV show (about BMW) on speed or the history channel within the last year. | ||
| Jscott |
Nope, didn't search. Nice of you to trust me though. | ||
| Jimidan |
They were building Nazi fighters like the Messerschmitt Bf 109, which was the baddest plane in the air, easily outclassing the Spitfire and more than a match for the Mustang. They also pioneered several Messerschmitt based rocket planes that revolutionized aviation technology for non-piston fighters at the end of and after the war. The US "borrowed" many of BMW's Nazi engineers (hey, we didn't care...at least they were white) after the war for its jet plane development. Maybe that is why we dropped the bombs on Japan instead of Germany. jimidan | ||
| Jimidan |
Rocket and Brucelee: "have some testosterone issues that need attending to" Jeeeez! | ||
| Rocketman |
And you don't?  Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Y'all need to get a room. Sad the way grown men see fit to behave ain't it Jimi. Rocket is obviously in one of his down cycles. He'll be back to his normal self soon. Until then, please treat him like the supermodel with PMS that he has become. | ||
| Blake |
Did I just call Rocketman a "supermodel"? You get the point, right?  | ||
| Jimidan |
Rocket sez: "And you don't? Rocket" I am not the one resorting to personal attacks...or lobbing birds over the wall at folks I disagree with...or bragging about my abilities or accomplishments. Pull yourself up out of that mud, son...you are too intelligent to stoop so low. Surely you can communicate on a higher plane that that! Reasonable people can disagree. jimidan | ||
| Rocketman |
Excuse me Jim lad but where in this thread, or the other you've been chasing me in, did I throw the first rock? Show me where and I'll rightfully offer my apologies. Rocket | ||
| Xlcr |
Whoa! Sorry Jimi, but I have to call foul here! Sure, there is some room here for personal opinion, but the Bf 109 was only 'superior' for a brief period in 1941, when the 'F' model "Fredrick" was introduced. It was slightly better in performance than the Spit V and the early 'A' model P 51, which was still using the Allison engine, though it was undergunned. It was inferior to the newly introduced FW 190A, however. Most experts agree that the Bf 109G (Gustav) model was a step backwards. It was still slower than the Spit IX and the Merlin powered Mustang, not to mention the P-47D, the P-38 and the Russian LA-5FN, and handling had deteriorated. In truth, the 109 was past it's prime by 1943, and kept in production only because of Germany's desperate need for fighters. | ||
| Jimidan |
XLCR sez: "Whoa! Sorry Jimi, but I have to call foul here! Sure, there is some room here for personal opinion, but the Bf 109 was only 'superior' for a brief period in 1941, when the 'F' model "Fredrick" was introduced. It was slightly better in performance than the Spit V and the early 'A' model P 51, which was still using the Allison engine, though it was undergunned. It was inferior to the newly introduced FW 190A, however. Most experts agree that the Bf 109G (Gustav) model was a step backwards. It was still slower than the Spit IX and the Merlin powered Mustang, not to mention the P-47D, the P-38 and the Russian LA-5FN, and handling had deteriorated. In truth, the 109 was past it's prime by 1943, and kept in production only because of Germany's desperate need for fighters." I am certainly no expert on WWII fighters, but I just have a casual interest. I was just recalling some of what I had read and I cannot refute what you reported. I stand corrected. I guess my general message was really about BMW producing quality flying machines that were very competitive in WWII, as well as a more storied racing history since. | ||
| Jimidan |
Rocketman sez: First, I am not chasing you, but I am not avoiding you either. Your controversial style kinds of draws me in like rutting stag and doe in heat. Somebody STOP ME! Second, I never said you started anything. Now stop chasing me...oh, I'm sorry, your it! jimidan | ||
| Rocketman |
Jim lad, you seem to spend most your BadWeB life cut 'n' pasting. I hope it's worth it. Do yourself a favour and let it go. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
I know virtually nowt about WWII fighters but I've heard a couple of things over the years. The Mustang was let down by speed until they put the Spit engine in it. Ths Spit won the Battle of Britain. And I think I'm right in saying the Spit had a fundamental difference over the Schmitt which was it could loop or turn a much tighter radius giving it a dog fighting advantage. Rocket | ||
| Xlcr |
That's pretty much right, Rocket, but with a few cravats. The aerodynamics of the Mustang were enough superior that even with the Allison it was as fast as the Spit at low altitudes, but the Allison engine had only a single-stage supercharger and lost power badly at altitude. The Rolls-Royce Merlin, which powered the Spitfire and the later Mustangs, used a two-stage supercharger that gave it much better performance at altitude, and so equipped it was the equal, though NOT the better, of several other fighter types in performance. What made the Mustang a war-winning weapon was the fact that performance came with an incredible range which allowed the Mustang to escort American bombers all of the way to Berlin, or any other target inside Germany. While the Merlin-engined Spits performed well, and the ones powered by the larger R-R Griffon engine were even better, there was only room in the slender Spit fuselage for a meager 80 gallon tank, which made the Spit a fine defensive fighter, but seriously short on range in the offensive role as a bomber escort. | ||
| Xlcr |
PS, also, while you are correct in saying that the Spitfire was a better dogfighter than the Bf 109, it was hardly the best dogfighter of the war. That award should probably go to the Nakajima Ki-47 Hayabusa (Oscar) flown by the JAAF, with the IJN's Mitsubushi A6M Zero a close second. However, the truth is that dogfighting as such went out of fashion in the course of WWII. In the Spanish Civil War the Germans developed what the Allies came to call the 'Finger Four' formation, with two flights of two planes consisting of a leader and wingman, which allowed the planes to mutually support each other, thus to an extent cancelling out the advantage of manuverability. When faced with the extreme manuverability of the Japanese fighters, the Flying Tigers, who were the first Americans to face them in regular combat, developed the 'dive and run' mode of attack which became the standard tactic of the Pacific War, as staying to engage in a turning fight was suicide, even with the more powerful later American fighters. This tactic involved gaining superior altitude, then diving in at high speed, picking a target and making a firing pass, and then using the speed built up in the dive to escape before a turning fight could develop. Also, Jimmy Thatch of the USN developed the 'Thatch Weave', in which the leader and wingman crossed each other's flight path when attacked, allowing the wingman an excellent side shot if the attacking plane followed through. This allowed the Grumman Wildcat flown by Navy and Marine pilots to survive in the air in the early battles of the war. Nothing could demonstrate the obsolesence of the dogfight better than the fact that the highest scoring fighter against the Japanese was in fact the P-38, a large and heavy plane which was designed as a bomber interceptor. It didn't need to win dogfights, it had such a speed advantage that it could use the dive and run tactic without having to run very far. If a Japanese fighter got on it's tail it had the power to simply run away from it, even in level flight, and once it got out of range the pilot could turn about at his leisure and come back for another firing pass. This is also why fast monoplanes made biplanes obsolete at the beginning of the war. In the end what mattered most was NOT manuverablility, it was speed, the speed to chose your fight, and to run away if the situation was not in your favor. | ||
| Rocketman |
Most excellent posts Xl. I'll read them again when I finish work. We should move this 'new' found thread into one of its own on the QB and INCLUDE pic's of these fine machines you speak of. Thanks again. Great stuff. Or should that be 'Right Stuff'. Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
Rocketman sez: "Jim lad, you seem to spend most your BadWeB life cut 'n' pasting. I hope it's worth it. Do yourself a favour and let it go. Rocket" Thanks for the advice, but I have learned that cut 'n' pasting saves me a lot of time over typing everything out. You should try it sometimes, unless you just need the practice. I do have another life out in the real world...which is where I am heading right now. Chow! jimidan | ||
| Bikemakr |
Gee, I thought I was in the "Bad Weather Bikers' Buell Motorcycle Enthusiasts' Discussion Forum » RACING! » Racing - Circuit/Road Racing » Mid-O results" forum....musta taken a wrong turn. | ||
| Rocketman |
But the aerplona boom boom stuff was a great diversion, right? I mean, where else in the world could you find threads that bounce around so much. It's a BadWeB tradition you know. Rocket . | ||
| Ceejay |
Zat's the problem when you get over 5000 folks who can't concentrate on anything cept when they're on their sleds... | ||
| Ebear |
Naw....right turn , just wrong channel....   | ||
| Ceejay |
I never noticed this until I saw Eboos excellent pics but I was wondering why McW has different tail as compared to all the others I've seen. Just a personal preference? |
