| Author | Message | ||
     Uly_man |
Sat on the bike, rolled down the garden path, fired up the engine, clutch in, gear in, clutch out and NOTHING? Try again and the same. Next thing I see is some guy pointing at the ground and shouting "Transmissio, Transmissio?". And there is the problem. My belt? Lying there like a big black flat snake. The belt is in perfect condition with a clean break. I felt nothing and its done 7800 miles. It went EXACTLY the same way and miles as the two that went on the 06 bike and they both have FSTs fitted as well. It is a AKE type. The 06 bike had a AKD and a AKE belt. All three went just after tire changes. I did the last one and was VERY careful about it. The FST is giving the belt full support and not damaged. I now think they are a waste of money but at least I did not pay for the one on the 10 bike. I have no idea what is going on with these belts apart from the road conditions I ride which are lots of road humps, gear changes and I ride the bike hard as well. Fitted my spare AKF belt, which was easy, and a FST helps with that. While fitting the belt I notice a big nail in my brand new PR2 rear tyre which I know for a fact I must have picked up the night before. Not the best start to a day. | ||
| Djohnk |
At least it broke at your house and not on the road somewhere. My belt broke at my house, and I felt lucky about that, but I had to wait for days for a replacement (I keep a spare now). My original belt on my '07 uly lasted for about 45K miles I ride it hard and weigh over 270lbs. It kind of sounds like someone tampered with your bike overnight. | ||
| Uly_man |
I do not think it was tampered with due to the fact that the belts core fibers were broken, as with the other belts, further in from the break point. Or that they did the same thing at the same time on my 06 bike as well? All three belts went exactly the same way and time. And after running both a 06 and 10 bike over a period of six years now, in the same conditions, it seems to me its just those riding conditions that are the problem. I thought it might happen anyway. So what to do? Well I will get about 7k on the PR2s so on the next tire change I will do the belt as well. No point messing about for a few bucks but that is just for my riding conditions. The sort of runs you guys do seem to be no problem so it should be fine. Seems so anyway. At the end of the day the money numbers, for this belt drive bike, over a chain setup in the UK is not all that far away so its not a big deal on that score. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
OK now it's sounding like something just plain weird going on. Ozone from an electric motor near where you park? I know Ozone kills normal rubber; does it go after our belts? | ||
| Arry |
"All three went just after tire changes." I'm sure you've given this some thought, but it seems suspicious..., or just coincidence? | ||
| Ourdee |
I think tire changing is the factor. | ||
| General_ulysses |
What are AKD and AKE belts? Are those standard equipment or is that some form of aftermarket belt? What's the best one to buy as a replacement? I thought they came out with a newer/better one now or something. | ||
| Uly_man |
"What are AKD and AKE belts? Are those standard equipment or is that some form of aftermarket belt? What's the best one to buy as a replacement? I thought they came out with a newer/better one now or something." The letters are at the end of the HD part number ie G500.AKF or something like that. AKD was the first then the AKE and the new last version is the AKF. My 10 bike came with a AKE. The AKF costs more than the AKE and maybe because of the better build. It is said the AKF belt was designed for the R series bike big power output. But who can be sure. "All three went just after tire changes." I'm sure you've given this some thought, but it seems suspicious..., or just coincidence?". I think its just my riding conditions. I once counted the traffic lights on my 13 mile run to work and it was 74. That plus all the junctions, crossings, speed humps and such it makes for a lot of "stop/start" going and a hell of a lot of gear changes. I also do not get many miles out of brake pads either but I try to use engine braking if I can. | ||
| Motorbike |
Holy cow! 74 traffic lights in 13 miles? I drive 12 miles to work and there is only 1 stop sign and 3 traffic lights. Takes about 15 minutes average. | ||
| Uly_man |
I do most of my riding in and around London. You do not get much more out of a chain set either no matter how well you treat it. I know I have tried. On the open road I guess it would be fine. | ||
| Red450 |
Clean it up, slap a buckle on it and use it as a belt for your jeans. That's what I plan on doing. (Anyone have a broken belt to donate?) | ||
| Uly_man |
You can have mine if you want to pay the shipping. | ||
| Schwara |
I am just under 10 miles, but only 8 lights (2 of those right turns) and 5 stop signs (& 2 of those right turns). I have 7K on this belt with no worries so far. I have a new spare I picked up from another BadWebber but I don't honestly know what version it is. I'll swap it out over the next week or so to keep the current as my spare. It still seems to me that the manufacturer should be able to come up with some kind of wear indicator. Even if it can only indicate 40-50 miles before failure that would still be helpful. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Sorry to hear the news. Hopefully the one you put on will last awhile. My first belt lasted about 22K and I have 23K on the current one. 100K belts indeed! :/ | ||
| Uly_man |
"Even if it can only indicate 40-50 miles before failure that would still be helpful". Yes there is just no way of knowing or at least not with my belts. At least it does, or not yet, wrap its self around the bike if it comes off like a chain can. A chain set would only be about 30 UKP less anyway and a belt has a lot more advantages. No oiling, no oil on the bike, no adjustment needed, less noise, no chain tool needed and much easier to fit. In fact chains are a bit of a pain and would not want to go back to one if I could help it. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Man, I should have knocked on wood!! Just lost my belt about five hours ago. Mother F'er! It is massively F'ed up how often they break. I got 22K out of eack belt. Hopefully the third will last longer. I got a buddy with over 100K on his Harley EG. | ||
| Griffmeister |
Recheck your alignment as well as inspect the rear pulley. The service manual is pretty specific on driveline inspection so there must be something important about it. | ||
| Uly_man |
Hi Whisperstealth. Gee thats a pain and VERY sorry to hear it. Make sure you get the AKF version. Would I be right in saying that your belt had no or little damage, went without warning and you do the same sort of riding most of the time. "Recheck your alignment as well as inspect the rear pulley. The service manual is pretty specific on drive line inspection so there must be something important about it". That may be true as on an industry synchronous belt it must be within one quarter of a degree. | ||
| Trojan |
The FST is giving the belt full support and not damaged. I now think they are a waste of money but at least I did not pay for the one on the 10 bike. Tha fact that you have lost three belts in sinilar circumstances and at low mileage woudl suggest the problem is elsewhere, such aas tyre changing. The FST is good but not a universal panacea for poor belt habndling when tyre changing or damage from outside circumstances. It will definitely help reduce belt and bearing wear under normal circumstances though. Hope you find the source of the breakages, as they are very frustrating. I had a belt complately delaminate on a Ulysses with under 600 miles on it from new. No signs of rubbing or external damage, it simply fell to pieces. H-D wouldn't even look at it and could't even be bothered to send me a reply when I sent the belt to their UK HQ for investigation. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I just don't see how its possible to mis handle a belt during a tire change? Remove axle. Remove caliper. Roll wheel forward to take tension off the belt. Slip belt off wheel pulley. Remove wheel. Installation is the reverse of removal. I just don't see how its possible to damage a belt doing that... That said, I've broken two belts in 30k miles. I broke them. Both times were nowhere near a tire change interval and both times were on hard 1-2 shifts. 100% my fault. And I'm fine with that. As far as I'm concerned any moving part is a maintenance item and 15k average per belt is fine with me. | ||
| Uly_man |
Hi Trojan. Thank you for the input. Is that "M++t" by the way? I am an old customer of yours and bought my 06 bikes FST, and a number of other things, from you. I would guess the 10 bikes FST came from you but I checked it was correctly fitted after buying the bike. So we will look at the problem in a logical fashion. A) The same-ish (7k) miles. B) The same roads, weight, riding style and NO wheelies. C) The belts broke after a slow pull away. C) The FSTs were correctly set up. D) No damage AT ALL on any of the belts. E) No de-lamination of the belts at all. F) All belts had broken from the core fibers within the belt ie they had broken further in from the clean break of the belt itself. G) They all went just after a tyre change. H) No wheel bearing wear, swing arm bearing wear and all engine mounts seem solid on both 06 and 10 bikes. Ok so it might be about the tyre changing of which I had suspected in the past. But here is the rub? I did it myself this time to BE SURE there would be no problems. I made a specific point to NOT bend, twist or force the belt in ANY WAY AT ALL and I even put it back on at the same place it came of the pulleys. I was super careful about this and if a belt can not take that on a tyre change then there is a problem. All I can think of is that it was weak after past usage. The only thing that I am sure of with a FST is that it make the gear changes smoother. I do NOT mistreat my bikes but then again I do not pamper them either. Some may not agree but I think that having had both the first and last versions of the Uly, with FSTs, with a total mileage of less than 25k and now on belt five, I am in a strong position to comment on the problem. Thats £218 x three belts and £120 x two for the FSTs. Total £894 plus post and stuff. And thats not "chopping cheap wood" by anyones standards. A FST may help but in my opinion the belts are just not up to the job in the first place. The AKF belt may be better but I will just change it out on the next tyre change anyway as its just not worth the risk (Pis+ing about with) at the end of the day. | ||
| Uly_man |
Ratbuell - If I was SURE I could get 15k out of a belt I would "scoop my eye balls out" with a Mellon baller and serve them with fries and a VERY large JD to the CEO of HD. | ||
| Froggy |
I'm at over 40k miles on the original belt on my 08 XT. I got 20k miles on my 1125CR's belt which broke this weekend, and half of that was with a hole in it from a stone. Also includes track days, wheelies, stoppies, off roading, and bump starting the bike. No aftermarket tensioner or any other voodoo. | ||
| Trojan |
Hi Uly Man, Yes Matt here  There definitely seems to be a problem going on with your bike and belts. Have you checked the front/rear pulley to make sure there are no sharp edges on any of the teeth that may be wearing the belt? Another reason may be if the belt was 'flattened' when changing tyre, not necessarily twisted. If you flatten the bend in the belt either in storage or when changing /fitting it then it can cause damage? | ||
| Uly_man |
Hi Matt. Good to hear from you again. The wheel pulley had some "curl" to the outer edge tips of the teeth. These I filed off and checked the rest of the pulley before fitting the new belt. The front is fine. One concern I had though was the paint on the rear pulley teeth. The wear is uneven and it seems to me that this may have an effect. What would be your opinion. PS. The belt was hardly moved while I removed the wheel. Honestly I "tippy-toed" around this like I was working with a new born baby. I know about belts and drive systems as it is part of my work. I have also worked on THE most complicated M&E systems yet known to man but a Buell belt is just a mystery to me. I will figure it out though if it kills me. (Message edited by uly_man on May 21, 2013) | ||
| Motorbike |
It is my opinion that we should not have to be so careful with our belts. I've seen plenty of Harleys out doing burnouts with the stock belt and I've never witnessed one breaking. Why are the H-D belts lasting so much longer than our Buell belts? That belt should be able to handle anything our stock engines can dish out, but obviously they cannot. | ||
| Trojan |
I think it could possibly be down to pulley wear/sharp edges, but I don't know how or why this should be worse for Buells than for H-D models other than the extra power (but not much more torque?). Some high mileage H-D models I have seen have had terribly worn/hooked teeth on the rear pulley with no associated belt problems. As Mort says, we hear very little on belt damage to H-D models, including Xr1200's that have similar power and torque output to the Xb Buell models. The only big difference on H-D models that I can think of is that they have belt adjusters on the swingarms (as do previous tube framers, which also don't seem to suffer as much). Obviously this is completely unscientific and just a hunch, but it seems strange that models with belt adjusters don't seem to have the same issues as those without. discuss  | ||
| Uly_man |
Umm. But surly that is part of the point, to some extent, of the FST. My 10 bikes belt had no slack in it at all but now it is off the bike it feels like, the AKE one, a dead rubber band. Its just me but I am not happy with the paint on the rear pulley teeth. Its wear pattern is the same as the 06 bike as well and something I thought about before. I am going to clean it off as, in my work, you would never run a system like this in this condition. In industry they need track at less than a quarter degree to work right and that is less than 1440 of a circle. As an after thought my old belt always tracked to the outer edge of the rear pulley. The new AKF belt will only track to the inner edge. On the stand and running the wheel the other way it will track to the outer edge but forward it will not. That does not seem right to me and, given that I can not find a bearing fault, the old belt may have "bedded in" as the paint wore off the rear pulley. Who knows thought? (Message edited by uly_man on May 21, 2013) | ||
| Trojan |
You may be right on the pulley paint/coating but H-D models have the same coatings and don't seem to suffer to the same degree. I seem to remember a test done on the old tube framers when someone ran the belt as slack as it was possible to go for a few thousand miles with no ill effects. Yet if you slacken the belt on the Xb too much it will jump teeth or slip, so maybe the belt design has changed slightly? The FST is designed to give a little play compared to stock and importantly, to absorb shock loads and reduce wear on bearings etc. However it can't slacken the belt too much or you just get belt slippage/teeth jumping. | ||
| Uly_man |
I will clean off the paint to see what happens. After all "nothing chanced" and all that. The Uly needs a good "poke" every now and then anyway. We may get lucky. Who can say. Its a weird bike and it does weird things. All I would say though is if you apply un-even wear to any drive system you WILL have a problem. And thats a stone cold FACT. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
wait. your rear pulley is pained in the teeth? I thought they were chromed. My X1 is chromed. Just a sec, going out to parking lot at work to look at my 2008..... | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Couldn't really get a good look in there with all those fangled guards covering it but it is shiny in there. You think this could be a clue to your issue? | ||
| Griffmeister |
Manual just says they are "coated", but whatever coating it is, it's uniform and definitely not chrome. It will wear and chip, the manual also says if any chip exceeds .25 inch the pulley should be replaced. Chips and wear will affect belt tracking. And then there's Froggy, I was looking at your pulley, easy to check with the belt off.  You may want to carry another spare belt. | ||
| Uly_man |
"the manual also says if any chip exceeds .25 inch the pulley should be replaced. Chips and wear will affect belt tracking". Not sure what they mean by that or at what point you would measure it. The outer edge of the teeth had a sort of a lip to them which I filed off before fitting the new belt. The paint on the teeth is wearing and/or chipping off but it was the same on the 06 bike? In fact its ALL the same between the bikes. I was going to clean the paint off I am now not going to. Why? Well the paint on the teeth is not the same as the one on the outside of the pulley. Its thicker and harder to start with and so it must be there for a reason. If the belt is going because of this then I would have to change the pulley AND BELT every 7500 miles? Well that is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It costs WAAAY to much. If the "coating" is there to stop wear to the alloy pulley what happens if it wears off? Maybe its there to allow the belt to "BED" in to the pulley. Who knows. The wear level/pattern is the same on the 10 bike as it was at 7500 miles on the 06 bike and was still the same at 14k on the 06 bike. I have had two AKE belts now and the AKF is the first I have used so we will see? Man I have had so many now its hard to remember which are which. The first 06 belt was a AKD I think? Anyway I will just run the bike and see what happens. Given all of this I would say you would be better off taking a NEW belt on a trip or as a spare as I would, myself, not trust an old one. |
