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Vecchio_lupo
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 07:14 am: | 
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I am a recent convert to the loud pipes help people hear you. I used to be absolutely against overly loud exhaust notes however great it might sound.
The issue is not really does a louder exhaust increase your footprint, of course it does because anything you add is an additional effect regardless of level of effectiveness.
I'm telling you that your non riding neighbors will not like it, your local law enforcement may not like it, and ridiculously loud pipes will only push non riding citizens to push through extreme legislation against us. Then when we show up to protest with full on race pipes, the lawmakers will feel justified in the law they are passing.
If you are not sure of what is just over the horizon in the USA, just look at the noise regulations in Europe and the UK. I assure you there are groups in the USA that are working to inflict their own ideas of reasonable sound levels.
I guess I'm just saying that a little common sense on our part now will curtail absolute stupidity on the part of the non riding public. Louder pipes are fine, loud for the sake of loud is against the logic of legitimate power gains.
Am I a hypocrite? Yes I am, I have the Buell race header and race can on my S3T, and a Remus can on my Uly. Have my neighbors spoken to me about morning warm ups and late night approaches? Yes they have, I do my best to idle in and shut down fast as well as minimal warm up till I can put around the corner and take it super easy for a while.
I'm an American living in Germany and my German riding buddies keep telling me the Polizei are going to stop me and ticket me for loud exhaust, currently my USA registered Buells are exempt from the Euro standards.
All that I said counts for nothing, until there is legislation against something, it is allowed so ROCK ON with straight pipes and open megaphones. If your not sure what Texas will do, watch California and wait 10 years.
By the way, I am usually full of crap, just ask my ex wife. |
Motorbike
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 08:06 am: |
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Do you guys who love your loud pipes enjoy riding behind someone else in your group with loud pipes? That is where all the noise is most annoying to me. If I stay back far enough so the noise doesn't rattle my helmet, some jerk in a cage will surely pass me and sneak into my spot. Also, it seems that the Harley riders with loud pipes are constantly on and off the throttle just to see how much noise they can make! I have never felt the need to pump the throttle like they do but maybe that's just me.
OK, I have my earmuffs on. Go ahead and blast everything I just said. Thanks.
PS I do have to admit that when I was a kid growing up on the farm I had a Honda SL125 4-stroke that I put a Hooker Exhaust on. I used to drive that thing as hard as I could just to see how much noise I could make and loved it! I'm sure the neighbors were just praying that I would get sick of it and give up the sport. |
Vecchio_lupo
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 08:40 am: |
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I hear you Motorbike, a little goes a long way. Improve the stock product only if it improves the entire experience.
I took the db killers out of my Remus to hear what it sounded like. They went right back in after a quick once around the block. It would have been great for a track bike but miserable for a tourer. I'm all about extra lights and hi-viz gear.
A friend of mine who retired from the California Highway Patrol as a Traffic Fatality Investigator once told me; In all my years of fatality investigation, never once did a motorist say "Officer, I just didn't hear the motorcycle" everybody says they didn't see it, so be seen. |
Oldwesterncowboy
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 09:53 am: |
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In traffic, I stay in the left hand lane.
ok I am always in the left hand lane.
Always passing.
If your always passing, you only need to worry about the cars in front of you.
Loud pipes are cool. but only good for setting off car alarms.
No matter what you do, they will not see you.
Never forget it.
Your are invisible.
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Gringo
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 11:13 am: |
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THIS LOOKS LIKE A GOOD PLACE TO POST THIS INNOVATIVE NEW SAFETY DEVICE FROM GERMANY....
http://biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=21816 |
Tiltcylinder
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 12:17 pm: |
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Crusty has it dead on... your invisible and vulnerable. Ride like everyone in a car is out to kill you... on purpose. It helps a lot. As soon as you relax and stop checking the mirrors or watching the idiots in front of you is when it happens. I'm constantly looking for the escape route and watching what's going on a hundred yards ahead and behind. By the time you react with the horn and they react in their vehicle it's usually too late. Ride the right edge of the left lane or the left edge of the right one. Cross the line a bit once in a while. Stay out of the middle where your invisible in front of / behind that suv/minivan. Swerving drunkenly at low speeds in traffic seems very effective. If you white line traffic, you risk all for little, people see the next lane open and traffic moving at 5-10 mph, not the 40 mph bike weaving in n out of the mirrors. Seen it so many times here in the city it's amazing.
As far as loud pipes go... I'm on the fence. The XT exhaust is stock. My sportys have drags with baffles, deep n loud but more like a helicopter than an NHRA drag car, which is what some folks seem to be going for. Most modern cars are so insulatingly quiet inside, a/c, quality radios... your not going to be heard until on their bumpers. And even then only if you're 'on it'.
Think about it, then think about it like the rest of the driving public who already believe motorcycles are deadly dangerous vehicles being driven by idiotic organ donors with death wishes. |
Motorbike
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 01:30 pm: |
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Twice in the last month or so I have seen idiots stop their cars completely in the traffic lane on a busy, fast moving interstate highway because they were trying to exit off to the right and could not do so because of traffic! So they come to a quick stop right ahead of me and wait for traffic to clear so they can pull off the highway. I swear one time my rear wheel must have left the ground as I hit the binders hard. The tire squealed for a second then quit as there was no pressure on it because I was on the front brake hard. Fortunately I was able to regain control and switch lanes to avoid impact. It seems like all of this happened in a split second. Taught me a good lesson and now I leave as much distance as possible at highway speeds. More time to react. Thanks. |
Redbuell_really_gives_you_wings
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 08:51 pm: |
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Traffic Fatality Investigator once told me; In all my years of fatality investigation, never once did a motorist say "Officer, I just didn't hear the motorcycle" everybody says they didn't see it, so be seen.
Doesnt this actually prove that there are less fatals with noisey bikes??
F#@k the neighbours who whinge, id rather be alive with a noisey exhaust than bow down to tippy toeing around to please others. Should hear the noise i make in my street every time i arrive home LOL
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Slaughter
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 08:55 pm: |
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Loud pipes save lives - when you are BACKING INTO TROUBLE. |
2008xb12scg
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 09:19 pm: |
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Wolgy, most import is to ride like everybody is out to get you. after awhile it becomes second nature to know what people are doing before they do it. I drive a bread truck and I get cut off all day long, and it's not like I can stop on a dime in that thing. Do your best to be seen and stay out of the blind spots.
as far as the pipes go if you're going to get one I love my Drummer and Kevin Drum is awesome to deal with. Very easy to put on he will walk you through it. |
Vecchio_lupo
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 02:49 am: |
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Aftermarket exhaust that improve the overall performance of the motorcycle but up the noise level within reason is perfectly acceptable.
Trying to ensure your bike is LOUD, and then attempting to justify it as a safety issue is a losing argument.
True believers are just that, they believe and you will not change their minds. Like the old cruiser guys who wear out rear brakes at twice the rate of their fronts because they are worried about being thrown over the bars in a quick stop. What about the "Helmets are dangerous because the impede vision and hearing"?
Don't waste your blood pressure on the true believers. They will run straight pipes and revel in the notion they are "Rebels" until some State Representative passes a ridiculous law about stock exhaust that don't exceed ?? decibels being the only option. Then watch the stupidity and protests.
All of which could have been avoided with a little compromise and common sense. I thank you all for the opportunity to speak and while I will certainly read this thread I'll stop feeding the Trolls by responding.
Good Luck and stay safe. |
Hotredjohn
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 07:30 am: |
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Being seen is the key, not being heard. Remember that most drivers simply don't see you and you will fair a lot better. I can't tell you how many times a driver has look directly at me and STILL pulled out, cut me off.
You are a motorcyclist, so therefore YOU must be more aware NOT just LOUD. You can't hear a bike coming towards you, only after it passes.
Here is an interesting statistic:
If you increase your following distance by 1/2 second you decrease your risk of a crash by 50%.
If you increase your following distance by 1 second you decrease your risk by 80%.
So time and space make the difference not louder and more obnoxious.
If you want to "Live to ride" you must "ride like you life depends on it" |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 08:02 am: |
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I used a shorter post before...but here's my true feelings.
I saw a shirt a couple years ago that I wish I'd been able to buy:
"if loud pipes save lives, imagine what actually learning to RIDE that thing could do!"
Again - take the muffler money and spend it on an advanced rider course, THEN see how you feel about "needing" those loud pipes. I guarantee that with your new skill-set, you'll look at that muffler purchase in a new light.
Loud pipes are a cop-out. They're for people who don't want to put the effort and energy into paying attention like they're supposed to.
I don't count on equipment for visibility, or for noise awareness - because that, in the end, relys on the "other guy" to NOTICE that stuff. All the color in the world, and all the noise in the world, doesn't do a BIT of good if the other guy is just THAT oblivious. Or texting. Or wiping up spilled coffee. Or yelling at their yap dog for pissing on the passenger seat. Or whatever.
That puts the "other guy" in the equation, and I don't care for that.
I count on me. Period. Because in the end, I'm all I've got - and I know exactly where I stand and I know what my capabilities are.
I *use* hi-vis gear, flashing brake lights, reflective pinstripe tape on my bikes and on my helmet, and mostly bright colored bikes...but I don't *rely* on that stuff to actually make a difference. Again - colors only help if the guy is paying attention in the first place (and what if they're colorblind? Or deaf? If color and noise are all you've got in that situation...you're really screwed!).
Pay attention. Enough attention for you, for the other guy, and for the guy behind him. Think ahead and visualize what the other guy's about to do (I learned to play chess when I was six; looking three or four moves ahead is second nature to me). Put some effort into the job of riding, instead of just hiding behind an obnoxious noisemaker.
And for the record - yes, I have Buell race mufflers on my tubers. FOR PERFORMANCE...and, let's face it, availability. The Drummer is gone from my Uly, though - it and the CR have stock mufflers and I LOVE them both. My ears don't ring after a ride, I can hear the idiot in the cage pulling up on me on the highway, I can listen to my engine as I row through the gears on the back roads, the bikes perform just great...and I don't have a single close call more on my all-black (nearly invisible) stock-exhaust CR or my nice, quiet Ulysses than I do on my bright white or bright red tuber.
Because I pay attention. The whole time the key is on, I'm on high alert. |
Motorbike
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 08:59 am: |
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Amen brother. Well written. |
Odie
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 09:36 am: |
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I have my pipe on my 12S. Not to make me noisier in traffic, but because it sounds good TO ME and performs better. I have a HID in front and XBLights in the rear. If you, as a car/truck driver, can't see me it's because of your lack of attention to the road and what's going on around you. My bike is dark, my Vanson leathers are dark, and my helmet is dark. I have to wear a reflective band to get on Post but other than that I use no reflective or bright colored gear. I think you could dip yourself and your bike in dayglo orange and run a straight header and people would still turn in front of you or look you dead in the eye and pull out in your lane. I have always hated how commercials and training have always focused on the rider when it really needs to focus on the idiot drivers that don't realize just how dangerous driving really is. All the Army training propaganda has always tried to educate the rider; which I agree needs to happen; but never have I seen anything to educate the drivers. At least not in the Army. I ride very defensively (perhaps excessively) because I go out there every day believing no one sees me. If my loud pipe interrupted your phone call about getting your wife the right size tampons at the Walsmart then I'm sorry. HANG UP!!! Pay attention to the road and what's going on around you. Ride safe...... |
Od_cleaver
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 10:00 am: |
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Redbuell_really_gives_you_wings,
I like your logic.
A little while ago there was a thread on this forum about a battery powered bike. Some of the worry worts (not on this forum, but in the links) were concerned about the lack of noise. Pedestrian safety was the concern. If my memory is correct, the manufacturer was thinking about adding a speaker and some recorded sound.
So, the life that you are saving may not be your own. |
Wolgy
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 10:51 am: |
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Thanks, everyone. Lots of food for thought here. This is a decision that needs to be weighed carefully. I have only been riding for 3 yrs and am thinking the advanced course is a great idea for next spring. I live in the country and no worries about pissing off the neighbors. I have heard a drummer on a Firebolt and do love the sound, but on a long road-trip it might get annoying. In the basic course I took they taught us to do everything possible to increase your visibility. I really believe that a louder exhaust will increase your chances of not being run over. You may not hear a loud bike coming up behind you, but that isn't an issue because you can see the bike in the mirror at that point. When a loud bike gets into the blind spots, I don't care what anyone on here says, I know I can hear it. But then again, I don't have the music blaring or have headphones on either. So that brings up the final point, you don't have any control over the idiots out there and you truly are on your own. Thanks again, everyone! This is my first post on here and I am overwhelmed by the responses. |
Babired
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 11:12 am: |
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Hey Andrew there are some books you can check out I don't want to be a commercial or anything but I teach Total Control the advanced riding class in Md. Lee Parks wrote the book Total Control. There are other really good books out there too Like Proficient Riding volumes 1 and 2. You have to check them out the BRC is just the beginning of your journey! And 3 years statistically you are at a hi crash risk year just like the first year in your riding. Not saying you will crash but just be aware of it okay  Not saying you are a bod rider either, usually what happens in 3 years the rider gets a little cocky and comfy on their bike so they push it a little more. Just remember your crash avoidance skills you learned and keep practicing them. K |
Redbuell_really_gives_you_wings
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 09:04 pm: |
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When a loud bike gets into the blind spots, I don't care what anyone on here says, I know I can hear it.
Exactly Wolgy!!
Its another layer of safety that is welcome, just as hi-vis and advanced riding courses also *help* protect the rider.
That rumble the driver hears while you may be in a blind spot uses another sense, and unbeknown to the rider, it just may have prevented a life changing event.
Im not saying go out buy a loud exhaust for the sake of safety, but if the drummer or similar appeals to you, dont let whinging neighbours decide whats in your accident avoidence toolchest.
(Message edited by redbuell_really_gives_you_wings on August 19, 2010) |
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