Author |
Message |
Conchop
| Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 10:17 am: |
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I seem to be getting an occasional spark knock out of my Uly - it comes after riding the backroads in 2nd gear. Once out in a place where I can roll it on - it knocks a bit - raise a gear and roll it on and it goes away and runs great. I have irridium plugs and run 93 octane gas - o8 model. Any ideas?? |
Jlnance
| Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 12:35 pm: |
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They will do that if they get hot. Your description of how it goes away after you get to a place where you can speed up makes it sound like this is what is going on. Assuming the fan is working and it is just "occasional" I wouldn't loose too much sleep over it. If you haven't installed the comfort kit, that may help the bike run cooler. |
Wesman
| Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 02:36 pm: |
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Conchop .... a timely question .... see my new post here http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/584458.html?1280774089 |
Salem
| Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 03:36 pm: |
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Just read 1/8"= new bike, a new post, seems like it might apply to you. |
Conchop
| Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 03:50 pm: |
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Hmmm - comfort kit has been in there for some time. Glad to see it is just the weather. I bet the new Erik Buell Racing computer would fix this! It wasn't this hot 20 years ago! |
Tootal
| Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 09:44 pm: |
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I just put the Erik Buell Racing ecm in and mine pings like crazy! It starts better, runs smoother but if I roll on the throttle when it's hot it's a tin can of marbles. I pulled the timing map out with ecm spy and compared it to stock. In the middle of the map it is advanced 3 to 4 degrees. I already had to manually retard mine to keep it from pinging and it was great. Now I have a worse problem. I'm wondering if they sent me one tuned to race gas or something? |
Ratbuell
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 12:32 am: |
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Send them a note and ask. I suspect you'll get an answer - they're good like that |
Natexlh1000
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 08:43 am: |
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My 2008 only pings a little on a hot day if I get cheapo with the gas. 2008 and up can't be adjusted with a screwdriver since the timing is taken directly off of the crank. Perhaps it's just running a tiny bit more lean than mine? |
Conchop
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 03:51 pm: |
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heat index over 100 here. open road is fine, just hot green lane. Get her cooled just a bit and life is better than ever. Funny how these Uly's get better over time. |
Tootal
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 05:35 pm: |
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Rat, that is the plan. I've dealt with them before and it's always been a great experience in comparison to other manufacturers. |
Froggy
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 06:32 pm: |
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Tootal, I would figure out the cause for you to need to retard the timing, that is not normal. Being that the Race ECM was made on a healthy bike is why you are having the issues. |
Tootal
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 07:23 pm: |
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I don't know Froggy, seems there are a few folks that have retarded their bikes with great results. Mine pinged when hot from day one. I would always have to back off the throttle until right before homecoming when I retarded it 1 1/2 lines on the plate. It ran much better on that trip than it ever had. I think the compression is too high for the timing they had. Like I said, it's only on hot days that I had the problem but that included just running down the slab, not stuck in traffic or anything. |
Froggy
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 08:20 pm: |
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Yes I understand that, but retarding the timing is a band aid and doesn't fix the actual problem. (44k on a non-pinging 06) |
Davo
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 09:08 pm: |
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Tootal, I think you nailed it with the compression remark. Retard, increase octane or relieve the compression by shimming the cylinder. I hope everyone is well at Badweb. It has been a while since I checked in at Badweb. |
Tootal
| Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 10:18 pm: |
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Thanks Davo. I've built a few racing engines and cam timing, compression, ignition timing and octane all have to match or it will ping. It would be interesting to do a compression check and see how high it is. With premium pump gas the most you want is around 190. I prefer 170 - 180 just in case the fuel is not up to par. The later the cam closes the intake valve the higher the compression ratio can be. I don't want to change cams so I can either lower the compression or back off the timing a little. That's an easy decision. |
Tootal
| Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 05:08 pm: |
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I was thinking about this again today and I remember my Harleys always had a vacuum switch of sorts. The old one had a VOES switch and the newer one had a map sensor. Both of these were used to take you from an extremely advanced mode, for good mileage, to a second mode with a slower timing ramp. I'm wondering if the buell uses such a system? On ecmspy I only see one timing map. Do they advance and drop to the timing on the map? Do they use a map sensor? I don't recall seeing one on there. |
Froggy
| Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 05:22 pm: |
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Only Buell with a MAP is the 1125R. As far as I know the timing doesn't change during riding on any Buell. |
Tootal
| Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 05:30 pm: |
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Thanks Froggy, that's what I was afraid of. I noticed today at 100 degree air temps that if I grabbed a handful it would ping and then go away. It didn't seem as bad today and in the past it has not been a consistent problem. That's when I thought I might have a bad map sensor but obviously that can't be it. |
Davo
| Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 08:26 pm: |
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Tootal, If I remember right my compression was around 185 psi on the 5th crank on a warm engine if I remember correctly. Sometimes that can be miss leading because the engine is not "in the cam" at such slow cranking speeds. My experience with high performance engines is the XR-750 Flat track engine. Very high compression and tall cams with a lot of overlap. Some times the cam timing was crazy. As for the the VOES, the Buell system is much more complex. The VOES is just a second 2 dimensional timing curve with less advance and a slower ramp. I like to use the Twin Tech ignition on the XL engines. They are fully programmable. A couple of years ago we were using a prototype PVL system that was digitally programmable had dual magnetos until they were outlawed from competition. They had a VOES switch that could be used to establish a back up curve for those last few laps. |
Growl
| Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 12:20 pm: |
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if you run the Uly at low RPMs for awhile, it can carbon up a little in the heads. The glowing carbon will cause pre-detonation. A little high RPM riding will blow the carbon out. I also retarded the timing a tad and it eliminated freeway pre-detonation and still performs great with over 50 mpg on the open road, 45 mpg average. |
Metaldude
| Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 02:35 pm: |
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I've also heard that misting some water into the air intake can help blow some of that carbon off that causes the higher-than-spec compression. |
Methed
| Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 08:33 am: |
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Seafoam, my friends. Half a can in half a tank, get it hot, then run some errands. Note the blue smoke and subsequent performance improvement. |
Tootal
| Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 09:22 pm: |
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Thanks Methed, I'll have to try that. I do commute on the Uly and that means ten miles of freeway and then city riding in traffic. Carboning up is probably the problem. I'll try finding the Sea Foam. I've never seen it in the store. |
Nittanyxt
| Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:01 pm: |
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Greg, My local lawnmower shop carries it,also might try a marine supply shop. BTW, my new ECM is A-OK so far. Jon |