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Uly1080
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 10:24 am: | 
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Read my profile Tom. Who did I vote for? Be careful painting people with those broad brush strokes, as they may eventually disprove what you take to be self evident. Electraglider is also a U.S. Marine (former), but that's not in his profile. |
Tstone
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 11:03 am: |
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Electraglider,
You need to stop reading bumper stickers and pick up a book. A coherent political argument would be more persuasive than insults and name calling and, by the way, if you took the time to look at unemployment stats from now and when W.J. Clinton were president, you might notice that the levels are remarkable similar.
Also, before making empty charges about the growth of government, you might consider that congress (Democrat) controls the purse strings.
By the way, what union did you belong to? |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 11:08 am: |
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Politics, religion, and sex are all topics that most people avoid because they either can't defend their position or because they aren't mature enough to have a spirited debate on the issues WITH EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THEIR POSITION.
I keep seeing people say, "It's all Bush's fault", "Look at the last 8 years", yadda, yadda, yadda.
Here are the FACTS!
Bush did not attack this country. Terrorists did. We were forced to deal with the situation. Bush did not violate a UN treaty by not allowing UN inspectors into Iraq, Saddam Hussein did, and we were forced to deal with that situation (it was never about weapons of mass destruction...but the fact that we SUSPECTED they had them).
Everything was running fairly well considering the great loss of 9/11 and that the country was at war. Then, about 4 years ago, Congress was taken over by democrats. For those of you who don't know, Congress runs the country. The President can't do much by himself. It's a system of checks and balances.
Now we have a democrat controlled congress with the LOWEST approval rating in history. Lower than Bush (who, I'll admit, has not been the best President).
So, name calling and such should not be part of any debate. I am not a registered Republican or Democrat. I'm an American. And I believe the best path for our country is to let the free market do what it does. Let people making a bunch of money, make money. What's wrong with that? People who don't have the desire, skill, education, etc. to be rich aren't bad people either. I have a friend who's perfectly happy working at a dead end job because he has "good retirement benefits". He's still my friend, even though he has no desire to pay the price to become more successful. That's America (or what it should be). Why should anyone be forced to pay higher taxes just because they worked hard, got an education, made sacrifices, etc. That's not fair. The only fair tax is flat tax on everyone. Make a dollar...send X% in. Period. NO deductions. NO credits. NO tax breaks for anyone.
It has nothing to do with trickle down economics. It has to do with what's fair. Survival of the fittest.
If you want a country wrought with uneducated, unmotivated, slothful, bums....then vote for a candidate that supports "wealth redistribution", thereby removing any incentive for them to help themselves, regain (or gain) some dignity, and become a productive member of society.
Currently 40% of our country's population receives more federal funds than they pay in. That leads me to believe we're handing out enough money.
Each day when I pick up the paper, I see jobs that need to be filled. I see illegals coming in from Mexico opening up businesses and sending lots of cash back to Mexico to bring more of their family here. I volunteer at my church to care for the homeless during the winter months, and I make it a point to talk to the people we pick up from the shelters. Each and every one of them is living on the street because the CHOOSE to. Some of them even refuse a ride to get a hot meal and a warm bed.
I've always believed that the government should be the absolute last resort for anyone to receive assistance from. Family first, friends, churches, philanthropic organizations, and LASTLY...the government.
I've voted for a democrat before. He's done a fine job for our state. I always look at the facts before I point a finger of blame or give praise.
Wanna blame Bush for the current mortgage bailout? Sorry...you can't do it. I have a friend in the mortgage business who told me the trouble started with the "Community Reinvestment Act" (I believe I have the name right) which was signed into law by who??? President Clinton. It forces mortgage companies to take a percentage of KNOWN bad loans. Basically, they are mandated to make loans to people who can't afford to buy a house. Granted, if the mortgage companies were handling their money a little better, they could have absorbed the bad paper...but that's a whole other issue.
Now, what in the heck is wrong with getting turned down for a mortgage? If you can't afford to be a home owner...rent until you put yourself in a financial position where you CAN afford a home. If you have a home, and you can't make the payments...you SHOULD lose your home. Period. That's the rules. That's how it works.
If I lose my job tomorrow, and it has happened to me in the past. I don't expect the government to bail me out. The longest amount of time I've been without a job since I was 15 years old was 2 weeks. If you have a good work ethic, a job isn't hard to find. It might not be what you WANT, but it will pay the bills. You may not have the lifestyle you WANT, but you'll get what you need until you can find a better opportunity.
So, I say to everyone who hasn't already voted.....look at each candidate. Not just Presidential, but all races. Don't pay attention to what your buddy says, or what a political ad says. Do some research. Keep up on current events. As painful as it might be, visit sites such as this:
http://www.senate.gov/index.htm
And read the legislation. See for yourself the "pork" that is in the each bill. When you hear on the news that "President Bush vetoed a bill to give children healthcare"...go find that bill and see WHY he did it. Most likely, there was a ton of crap in the bill that had nothing to do with healthcare for kids. A line item veto is SORELY needed, even President Clinton wanted that.
Sorry for going on and on....but elections and politics should not be something we shy away from discussing. We should not be ashamed of our positions, or afraid to express our opinions. In the end, I believe we all feel we know what's best for America, and that's a good thing.
Today, the people will be heard. And if my man loses, I won't complain about it. I stand behind our new leader and try to make a positive contribution to our country.
Now let's all hug, and go ride.  |
Froggy
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 11:52 am: |
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Just got home from voting, huge turnout, place was packed. I stood in line like an ass in my Roadcrafter 1 piece and helmet, but it was worth it. |
Capitantem
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 12:33 pm: |
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+1 Chadhargis.
Maybe this thread belongs to the Backfire Board? |
Hooper
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2008 - 12:45 pm: |
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Yeah, I was in my Olympia AST/Ranger getup in the line this morning, getting mighty toasty - but it moved quickly. People always stare, wondering why the guy is wearing the funny suit. Felt good to finally "pull that lever"! |
Galloper
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 05:08 am: |
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Ah... a black president.
and the right soundtrack to this all is:
Public Enemy - Don't believe the hype.
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Electraglider_1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 07:51 am: |
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Electraglider_1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 08:26 am: |
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Uly1080,
Semper Fi |
Galloper
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 08:29 am: |
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What this I hear about Obama being invited by the city of Dallas for a victory drive in a convertable on November 22nd  |
Bertotti
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 08:38 am: |
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I was a marine also. It sickens me to think I was defending people that voted for Obama. I sure hope you are all right about him but I seriously doubt it. Basic economics shows his ideas for taxing are what makes an economy tank. People get made about the way Bush handled things but the deficit is down from around 400 B in 2004 to around 190 B now. If a person wanted a job they could find one. Might have needed retraining or a new field but the jobs where there. All the one I know who were complaining were to stubborn to try and change and work.
We'll see. I will hope and pray for the best but all I see is a major depression coming our way now and increased terrorist activities around the world. Might as well give up on keeping the nukes out of IRAN because they will have all they want now.
I'm done with this thread now it is America and the vote is done so we will live by it. Good Luck to everyone! |
Miamiuly
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 09:08 am: |
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"It sickens me to think I was defending people that voted for Obama."
WOW- just WOW. |
Oddsc
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 09:16 am: |
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The highest service of our armed forces is to maintain the freedom of our country and ALL of its citizens. That statement is an insult to all the great people who have fought to defend this freedom. |
Prowler
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 10:13 am: |
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Discussing politics is a never a good idea. People just get pissed off at each other over information that has been "spun" from one side or the other. The "facts" can be twisted on wording or numbers to say whatever the speaker wants them to say in the "blame game". My brother retired from a full career in the military a few years back and his view on politics could not be more different than mine. It is painfully obvious (at least to me ) that he's never worked out in the public workforce, so he's a bit clueless on what's actually happened and is happening to the economy and insurance coverage issues now for the rest of us out there working for a living. Needless to say, we avoid discussing politics as we'd probably end up out back slugging it out . All I've got to say is thank God we've got the opportunity to vote and change up the leadership of this country every four years or so. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 10:39 am: |
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Well folks....complaining and citing "woe is me" is not going to do any good now.
We can't allow ourselves to be "victims". I sincerely hope that all the people who supported Obama are right, and I'm wrong. I hope his ideas, though proved ineffective throughout history, suddenly work and we prosper.
I stand by the statement I've made many times. The president alone can't do much. All those blaming President Bush for our country's shortcomings are just as uninformed as those who believe Obama will single handedly ruin this great nation.
True, he does have a democrat controlled Congress. But not all democrats are bad. Not all Republicans are good (just look at Bush and for that matter McCain...both are VERY moderate). There are democrats who won't tow the party line (hopefully) and blindly pass socialist policy.
Remember, it took 4 years of Carter to get 8 years of Reagan.
Take all the political frustration you feel, and act locally. Get on your city council, school board, or other local political position. Stand up for what you believe is right. Make a difference, even if it's just in your local community. Don't fall into the liberal way of thinking, and wait for the federal government to do something. Get out, roll up your sleeves, and make a difference. That's what built this country, that's what made us great, and we can't let that spirit die.
God bless the USA, and God be with President Elect Obama. |
Armymedic
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 11:10 am: |
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As a former Marine and now a soldier in the Army reserves, I took an oath to support and defend the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES; not the Republican party... or the Democratic party for that matter.
Semper Fi. |
Ejc
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 05:00 pm: |
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+1 Chadhargis |
Bertotti
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2008 - 06:11 pm: |
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I am not one to apologize out of hand but I let emotions get the best of me. I would defend anyone of you with my life if needed. It would be nice if we all could agree on a president or way of life but we don't and that is what makes this country. That we can live together even with our differences. I will leave my post above as a reminder that anyone can make a mistake and still be man enough to recognize it. Peace 
Ok now I'm out of this thread if you have a comment you need me to see you'll have to pm me. Lets get back to our bikes and farkles the real fun things in life! If I run into any of you I'll buy the first round. Later Bertotti |
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