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Modular
Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have set up a time tomorrow to go look at a '99 X1 described as follows:

1999 Buell X1 Low miles (7900+ miles) Forcewinder Exhaust, Kuryakyn Breather, Steering dampener, tank bra, aftermarket Buell seat, Banke shifter and brake, carbon fiber rear fender, belt guard, under tank pieces, fender eliminator also carbon fiber. Aluminum gauge holder, bar end mirrors, power commander.

Current owner is the second of the bike. Picture of bike in question:

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Jolly
Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 12:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have not had many issues with my 99 X1, just a few of the standard things. top rocker boxes leak (have they been converted to the XB style?), and I can remember if 99 had the paper gasket under the rocker or if they switched to metal in 99 or not...my guess is they were still the paper gaskets and they are terrible. the header system can crack and or transfer energy into the head mount bolts and break those if it was ever put on incorrectly, so I would check all head bolts..also check the front motor mount bolts..certainly "not uncommon" for those to break.... how is the front rotor? in 99 they still used the 6 button carriers (two bolts at each of the three "spokes" and they wear out, Ive got a really nice wave rotor on mine now...oh, do the push rod tube seals leak? that's really all the issues Ive had with my 99X1.... great bike and lots of fun to ride if this is your first tube frame Buell. the colors are my favorite! and it has some nice aftermarket parts that are expensive...that Banke stuff is great! I would say take a truck or a trailer and pick it up! nice score!
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Ltbuell
Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

....+1....
...to what Jolly said.LT
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Steveford
Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Does it have the updated header mount? I'd ask about the primary chain tensioner (old or updated)?
What kind of shock is on it?
It should be fast and smooth, check for leaks after a spin, are the isolators in good shape? Are all of the recalls done?
Handsome bike, that's the paint scheme I swiped for my Useless.
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Mbsween
Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jolly

Excellent list. I believe my 01 still had paper gaskets when new.

I'd add to check the isolators, especially the front. If the font is torn you're on the way to broken head bolts. It's hard to tell the front one is gone till it's really gone.


I always like that paint scheme the best of the X1s. Good luck with the bike, hope it works out.
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X1bueller
Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had the paper gasket too on my '00.

I had leaky rocker gaskets and the air cleaner leaked allot until I upgraded.
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pretty sure all tubers came with paper gaskets. In fact, I don't think any XL engine came stock with metal ones. They simply superseded the paper gaskets with metal ones in P&A, and that's what we get for replacements. My opinion from my rusty memory. No warranty is implied.
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Modular
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 08:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Also going to look at a 2002 Buell S3 Thunderbolt just over 5300 miles on it. Any major differences between the two besides the outward appearances/seating position?

Bike in question:





(Message edited by modular on September 26, 2013)

(Message edited by modular on September 26, 2013)

(Message edited by modular on September 26, 2013)
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Lynrd
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 09:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Frame is different, obviously. That S3 is the last year of the tubers, and, the way Buell did it, has most of the bugs of the earlier ones worked out - has the late style shifter, the improved front exhaust hanger, the improved front rotor, and should even have the corrected primary chain tensioner right from the factory. Looks like it would be one hell of a good rider.

To my eye, the X-1 is much prettier,and at least has the shifter changed out. You might check out Don Casto's page for info around the exhaust hanger and the rest.

I don't think you'd go wrong with either one...or both.
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X1bueller
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have an X1 so I would lean towards the S3. I always loved that color scheme too. If you could find matching luggage, it would be the bomb. I dont know where you are located, but if you take a pass on the S3, please send me the contact info...

There are some engine differences between the X1 and other models. The "lightning" designation was due to modified heads and cams I believe. Please correct me if I am wrong...
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Modular
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 10:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was not overly impressed with the '99 X1 when I went to look at it plus the owner was "sketchy" and some of the "stories" were not adding up.

I always wait till after the 1st of the year to buy my scoots-better deals since it's the off-season and close to tax time. That dealer has had the S3 for quite a while due to the $4900 price me thinks. I'm pretty sure the S3 will still be there come January.
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Lynrd
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wow - $4900 - a lot of money for a Buell, but it looks like a pretty nice one. A least the asking price should scare the chopper builders off.

I have bought TWO S3s (one with almost the same milage) and a bunch of nice aftermarket and OEM parts to make all the updates this one has from the factory for same for less than $4000.

Given the condition, last year, low miles, if there is such a thing as a Buell collector, this would be a nice addition to a collection , assuming it comes with the stock air cleaner and all the original manuals, dealer prep pack and crap for that price. As a rider that is just too much money in my opinion.

It pains me to say that - because even $4900 is cheap compared to comparable Sport tourers (try to find a Ducati , BMW, or Guzzi LeMans that cheap) but the Buell market is currently at what I believe to be the low point - and it could be there for years to come.

Hopefully, the dealer is a visionary and this is the bellweather of a rebound in value of our bikes. But I regard that asking price not so much as an offer to sell as a cry for help to wrest the seller from the grips of insanity.
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X1bueller
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 11:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have seem asking prices for RS1200's go over $10. If there were ever a collectors Buell, that would be it. But even $10k is a bit much for the asking.

True that we are probably at the bottom of the market for tubber buells. Parts bikes are plentiful and most of the commodity engine parts will be available for decades to come (based on it's 1950's technology). I do worry about things like exhaust and intake systems, frame parts, and other specialty bits. Once the parts bikes dry up, these will be hard to find.

This bike is a nice example and would make a nice sunday/weekend joy rider. But 5K??? get real. I figured this would bring the low $3k's at the most...

I will probably never get rid of my X1 but I vowed to never own another Buell. I should probably stick to that.
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Modular
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That is why I am looking at it now whilst the weather is good. Come January, if they still have it, they will (hopefully) be more apt to deal on the price. If not........buh-bye. Maybe after they have the bike in inventory for over a year they will re-think the price.
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Steveford
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The X1 is slimmer, lighter and lower and it always felt to me that the crankshaft was lighter.
The S3 has a sit on top of the bike feel, it doesn't have the removable side plate, the shock should be softer and it feels like it revs slower (and I am talking about the injected ones) although that could be my imagination.
It should accelerate slower due to the increased weight.
They're both really nice bikes and I'm partial to the 2002 models as all of the updates are already done.
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Jolly
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 07:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have both bikes you are looking at, a 99 x1 and the 2002 S3T, the touring sister to the one pictured above, oddly enough, mine is exactly the same color. GREAT BIKE! I think at 4900.00 you would be slightly over paying for it, especially since it doesn't have bags or the rack for the bags. the rack and bags can be hard to source or expensive. you could plan on spending around 700 or so on bags and rack if youre patient and wait until the best deal to come along, and then of course paint to match... there is a lot to be said for the current status of the bike, you could buy cheaper and it end up costing you more, or you could over pay and it still cost you...I know this is stating the obvious, but it seems more true with these bikes since parts are less than predictable of when they will be available unless you're talking about standard sportster parts that are available. I took mine on a multi day bike trip and had an outstanding time through the twisities and I am very happy with the bike. I waited and found one with bags though. as a side note I just bought an S2 and bought one without bags and had to spend time sourcing bags and a rack for it...sure added to the cost!
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Hootowl
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

X1 and S3 in that year both have the same engine. Same heads, same pistons, same cams.
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Buellrider92
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 12:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I looked at the same bike when I was looking for a Buell a while back ago. I believe it is in Batavia, Ohio? I tried talking to them about price and they didn't want to come down at the beginning of this year. It's a nice looking bike but I found a better deal for a 99 X1. They've had that bike in there inventory for over a year I believe. My father tried to get it last year at the same price listed now.
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Steveford
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 05:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hootowl,
The 2002 S3 I sold at Schoch's was pretty peppy, I remember that much.
I think the forks should be softer, too?
It had the bags, it was a very nice bike.
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Trojan
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 08:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The X1 is slimmer, lighter and lower and it always felt to me that the crankshaft was lighter.


Not true. The EFi model S3 had exactly the same motor as ther X1. Likewise the frame and suspension were the same except for the removeable alloy rear subframe on the X1 (which is actually heavier than the steel S3 item). Weight and height wise both bikes are very similar believe it or not.

One thing that I would be very wary of on the X1 shown is the Force exhaust, as they have been problematic to say the least. A lot have broken or cracked and need regular attention with a welder unfortunately.

The S3 is very much underrated and to my mind is definitely the better of the two bikes for sale here for general everyday use, touring and carrying a passenger. They are also much rarer. This one looks to be in excellent condition and pretty much stock except for decent upgrades to intake & exhaust.

I've never been a fan of the PM wheels on the X1 either. They are harder to keep clean and very '90's' in style. I much prefer the stock alloys such as the S3 has.

lastly, that S3 is a great colour : )

S3 all the way : )
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 08:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The S3 frame is different from the X1.
Steering geometry too.

S3 and X1 are the same engines though.
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 09:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yup, it goes beyond the subframe (the area around the rear isolators, and the passenger footpeg mounts) but I was under the impression that the geometry was the same. I've been wrong before.
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Trojan
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 10:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Me too, there are slight differences in the footrests (The S3 has lower footpegs so gets a small extension to the frame below the isolators to mount them) and rear subframe mounts/lugs to suit the different models, but the actual frame geometry is the same as far as I know (and I've owned both).

When the bikes were released I think they had slightly different spec shocks fitted. However once the dealers had finished the recall programmes they were all mixed up so that X1's had S3 shocks and vice versa. Here in the UK they basically fitted whatever shock they had to the next bike to come in, so M2's got remote reservoir shocks if they were lucky and X1/S3's sometimes got non reservoir shocks. It was a bit of a lottery to be honest.
The S3 in the picture seems to have the correct remote reservoir shock fitted though : )

You can also see that the S3 has been stored/parked up for some time if you look at the front brake disc. At around the 7 o'clock point there is the tell tale mark left by the pads on the disc when they are left standing for a while : )
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Pkforbes87
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"The "lightning" designation was due to modified heads and cams I believe. Please correct me if I am wrong..."

Heads between a 99 X1 and 02 S3 will be the same, except for the location of the engine temp sensor. (near the plug on the 99, center of the head on the 02) FYI, heads on both of these models are designated as "Thunderstorm". And the difference in ETS sensor location doesn't prevent them from being interchangeable.

"Lightning" heads were, I believe used on S1 and S3 models 97-98, with the exception of the S1W (Thunderstorm heads) and the main difference I know of was that they utilized a 10° squish angle. (Thunderstorm heads are 15°, I believe pre-Lightning heads were 0°)

I'm unsure of what heads were used in 1996 and previous.

"The X1 is slimmer, lighter and lower and it always felt to me that the crankshaft was lighter."

Between a 99 X1 and 02 S3, the S3 will have the lighter crank. It's not a difference in model, but in year of production. I believe the change occured mid-2000 model year, and the newer models got a lighter crank. Having ridden both variants, I prefer the older/heavier crank. The lighter one will rev faster, but doesn't carry as much momentum and therefore is more susceptible to fluctuations in vehicle speed due to wind, terrain, etc. The difference is small though, and might not even be noticeable unless you're looking for it.

The difference in weight between a non-T model S3 and any X1 isn't as large as you'd think. The X1 is a pig!

Edit: corrected a mistake in the use of Lightning heads.

(Message edited by pkforbes87 on September 27, 2013)
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"The X1 is a pig!"

Blasphemer! The X1 is as light and agile as a 250 GP bike, in all areas that matter (my own imagination).
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Jayvee
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 02:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The published specs are:

S3 Rake 24.5 Trail 3.8 Dry Weight 465
X1 Rake 23 Trail 3.5 Dry Weight 440
M2 Rake 24.5 Trail .38 Dry Weight 435

Wheel base is 55 for all three.
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Pkforbes87
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That 465 dry weight is for an S3T. The S3 is just under 450.

Hoot, I mean no disrespect to any X1s or their owners. I've owned 2 different X1s, never any other tuber.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So the S3 and M2 had the same frames?

I KNOW the X1 has a different frame.
hint: Replace a belt on an S3.
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Davefl
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 03:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sub frame is different from S3 to M2, other than that the frames are the same.
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Steveford
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 05:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I forgot, the X1s seem a bit twitchy at high speeds and always makes me wonder when I'll get around to fitting a steering damper, the S3 isn't like that.
I liked my S3 when I had it, I'll end up getting another one sooner or later.
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Hootowl
Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2013 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The blasphemer crack was a joke. At the time, 420 wasn't all that bad, but by today's standards, it is a bit heavy. I should have used one of those little smiley thingies.
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