| Author | Message | ||
     Serialk |
I bought my bike like this. I don't know if its JB weld or some other epoxy but I would prefer it if it was welded. I want to upgrade to the billet hanger and new bolts. could a welder do a bead around the epoxy? or would it have to come off,back on and tapped? I know there are others that have been through this. I don't know how mine was repaired and don't really trust it. What would you do?  | ||
| Foximus |
ouch.... I'd use the excuse as an opportunity to upgrade heads. But thats just me. | ||
| Langperf |
Yes it can be welded Yes all the epoxy and paint would have to be removed before it is welded Yes it would most likely have to be re-tapped Yes the head would have to be off the bike Yes the head would have to be jigged up in a mill and both mounting faces machined parallel to each other again so unless you have the knowledge and equipment to do this yourself it will almost always be more cost effective to replace the head with a good new or used unit | ||
| Serialk |
I have ridden the bike like this for 6,000km so far. so it cant be that shotty of a repair job... Well to find 1 front thunderstorm head is pretty hard. Heads are usually sold in pairs as we all know. There is a set on ebay right now from st pauls hd for $650. Or xb heads from NRHS for $850... Yes I am capable of taking my heads off Yes I can take this to a machinist that knows what he is doing. Yes I can pay less then the cost of new heads... I hope... Or Does anyone have a front thunderstorm head without a broken mount they want to trade?? hahaha you never know! income tax season is upon us. The next few weeks will decide the route I take... | ||
| Foximus |
Those heads have been on ebay for $650 for over 3 months now, so dont consider them the pricing benchmark. Welding cast aluminum for a long term stress bearing structure (especially where major vibration and stress fatigue becomes an issue) always is tricky. Not a bad option, you might get charged $100 or so. So really you have nothing to lose. However, that being said. I picked up my brand new in the packaging 2007 screaming eagle heads for $250 on ebay. So its really just about waiting for that opportunity. | ||
| Serialk |
Thats a sweet deal! $250? Nice score Foximus! Yeah Im keeping my eyes and ears open for the right opportunity. I think I might wait until my shit list gets smaller. Take the head off and get it welded properly. nice thick bead,reinforce with a billet mount to make this baby bulletproof. Or wait until someone says " I got a front head for ya for a good price!" | ||
| Buellistic |
Correct me if "i" am wrong, "BUT" the ports are the same in the THUNDERSTORM heads and the XB VALVES if installed allows the same flow ... | ||
| Foximus |
however you need to oversize your valve seats to make that worth it... as even in the xb heads the valve seats are too small for the valves. Thunderstorm have more efficient combustion chamber. | ||
| Rick_a |
They probably used a longer bolt along with the epoxy. A good welder/machine shop could handle that without much fuss. The XB heads have better ports and more fin area. If you get the 04+ XL versions they are already drilled for the carb mounts/breathers. I sold my repaired Lightning heads for pretty good money and put that towards an XB top end. | ||
| Preybird1 |
"Thunderstorm have more efficient combustion chamber" No they don't. That's why the the xb heads and the XL heads have the bath tube style combustion chamber. They are better and that is why HD used Buells design and called it there own. The XB and the XL head(s) can be used they are the same. I have a set on my bike right now. When i was building my motor, XB heads were on back order and were very hard to get. I had found a built(valves, springs locks) head on e-bay for $350 i traded it for a fully built XL head from Dan at NRHS because he needed it for a build he was doing and they were on back order. So he got an XB head and i got a $550 built head for $350. The thunderstorm heads were better than the stock harley heads before the XL heads came out. That part is correct. | ||
| Foximus |
Well, let me say this then... The actual FUNCTIONING combustion chamber of the XB/04 heads might me more efficient, however the fact that it has no squish and is designed for a flat top piston is a major hinderence, and that is why a thunderstorm head will be more efficient. To make a XB head work the same you'll need to have the valves unshrouded, seats enlarged, and machined down with at least a 10* squish. A side advantage of that will be to run the piston cooler and have less det.. | ||
| Kalali |
Why do you want to change it if it has been working well for so long? Are you worried it might break and get you stranded? Just wondering. | ||
| Serialk |
I want to fix it because I want to put on my billet mount and want it to go on a head without any defects. I could put it on like this. But who knows how much longer this fix will hold. It's a gamble I don't want to take. Do it right the first time. | ||
| Xl1200r |
replace the head with a good new or used unit This would be my advice. It's typically the other side that breaks, so I'd be worried about this side stronger but not perfectly aligned and risking a break on the left side. Thunderstorm have more efficient combustion chamber. I'm not an engine building professional, but this is the first I've ever heard this claim. I've also heard that the Thunderstorm (maybe I'm thinking the Lightning heads - same as used on Sportster 1200S) are heavily shrouded and was the need for the second plug. The general consensus I've heard is a stock XB head is typically better than a worked over anything else. | ||
| Serialk |
I would love to replace it with a good new or used. but i don't want to buy a pair... If I am going to buy matching heads then it will be a set of xb heads... The roads are still covered in sand and de-icer where I am so I have some time to let this percolate. Most likely I will take this head off and take it to a machine shop to get reinforced and aligned properly. Here is some info on the heads FYI http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php? t=14000 | ||
| 5liter |
I had my head replaced last summer and only had to buy the front head. | ||
| Sportyeric |
That was an interesting read at the link that Serialk provided. However, if that is what Foximus is basing is opinion on, I don't see the support. In fact, Aaron says, "Likewise, an XB or 04-up XL1200R/C head is better than the Thunderstorm at any given prep level, although the difference diminishes at the higher levels." The XB head does have a squish area but it is flat and matches the piston, not angled and so can be improved by machining an angled squish band and using a domed piston to match. Valve shrouding is only an issue with the Lightning and 1200S heads, according to what I read there. As an aside,I followed Aaron's process (and, in fact, his specific instructions) on improving the Lightning heads using Thunderstorm pistons for my Sportster and it runs considerably faster than my unmodified Thunderstormed Buell. As to the initial post, given that the front fails in this fashion somewhat frequently, I suspect there would be few fronts sold alone on eBay. However, a used pair could probably be had for not much more than the cost of welding and machining your current broken one and would be more reliable IMHO. | ||
| Guell |
sportyeric, can you tell a big difference on the lightning heads after reworking them? I would consider doing that with my cyclone since it apears to be a more cost effective way than new heads etc. | ||
| Foximus |
.... really? lol | ||
| Buellistic |
Anybody put XB valves in the THUNDERSTORM and then RE-flow them comparing the difference between the heads ??? | ||
| Cyclonemick |
Have a question kind of related...I'm gettting ready to install a used front motor mount on my cyclone and think it would be a good idea to install new bolts! The old bolts are fine but figure it would be a good idea to go ahead and get new ones! Since I only have a Service Manual and not a parts book, Can someone give me the part #'s for those two Bolts? (the ones that mount to the head) | ||
| Jramsey |
Bolt#AA0618.1CZ You need to be sitting down when they give you the price. IIRC Al used to stock them. Here ya go. A17049-B - 96-02 Front Motor Mount Bolt Kit Price: $19.90 (Message edited by jramsey on February 17, 2011) | ||
| Cyclonemick |
Thanks! I'll check out American Sport Bike First! | ||
| Sportyeric |
Replacing "mission-critical" bolts such as those is recommended whenever they are removed, IMHO. @ Guell (and Foximus) there is this: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/125502.html Took a lot of time but I'm pleased with the results. I may try to dyno it next year if I stumble upon one. Some of my ideas there were incorrect, it turns out. I now believe T-Storm heads, given the same treatment, would be better. An incompetent shop put an end to that on my Buell heads (for now.) | ||
| Cyclonemick |
I'm in luck, American Sport Bike does have them! sucks they are $10 bucks a piece!  | ||
| Guell |
I emailed nrhs and was told a stage 2 lightning head makes about the same as a stage 2 t-storm. I think I might be heading in that direction now | ||
| Foximus |
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| Rick_a |
One huge benefit to XB/'04+ XL heads is that the engine mount area is much beefier than those prior. The T-Storm and older heads have mounts designed for XL's having downtube frames. |
