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Jos51700
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2008 - 05:58 pm: | 
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About 6-8 inches from the valve, if possible. You can narrow-band O2 sensors from any autoparts store for $35 or so. You can get the bungs at any muffler shop. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2008 - 06:07 pm: |
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Cool. Now you mentioned about cruise control. How would you go about adding that? It would be an excellent compliment for a touring project as this. What kind of hardware would need to be added, like switches and sensors and stuff? |
Phelan
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 09:28 am: |
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John, thanks for all your help, and everyone else too. Just the research side of this is getting very exciting. I can't wait to see what kind of excitement and surprises show up when I actually start putting things together. Sorry to play 20 questions, but a few others with the one above: Where can I read more about the Delphi systems so I don't have to keep bugging you all about it? And any way I could get a copy of that race tuner program just so I could take a gander at it? |
Oldog
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 09:52 am: |
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Jos the "pinion gear" I was refering to was mounted directly on the crank hence no slop, obviously if the teeth did not match with the notch count of the crank assm then it would not work. some where I have the idea that the Delphi ECM would be about 700$,
I dont know how many notches are in the crank would 36 make sense 1 every 10 degrees? |
Phelan
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 10:11 am: |
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A Delphi ecu may be $700 new, but don't underestimate the power of bargain shopping. Not many people are doing this upgrade or replacing burnt ecus on efi sportsters, so there is little demand, BUT there are constantly sportsters being wrecked and/or dismantled and sold for parts on eBay. I got nearly all the parts for my streetfighter sportster project off eBay, including the STD heads, Axtell cyls, and very rare White Bros 2-1 exhaust, all for pennies on the dollar. That's why I'm excited to hear how powerful the Delphi system is, because of its availability. |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 10:34 am: |
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The HD cruise kit includes a cruise control cable, wire harness, switch housings (Switches pilfered from any HD touring bike would work), and cruise module. It just plugs into a touring bike harness, not sure about an XL harness.
Don't forget, you'll need a TSM (turn signal module) or a TSSM (Turn Signal Security Module). TSSM allow's HD fob-security, and self-cancelling turn signals, in addition to BAS function. |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 10:35 am: |
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I counted 30-2 teeth on that BT crank I pictured earlier.
I have all the stuff from HD EFI classes, but it's packed away. I'll see if I can find 'em. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 11:07 am: |
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I know where I could come up with some switches from a touring model real quick, but then my Dad wouldn't be able to start his Ultra  .
So obviously the biggest hurdle I suppose will be to get the crank machined. My question is, what is different in fitment about the tuber cranks and the new sportster cranks? Would it be easier to modify the efi sporty crank to fit in the tuber cases? |
Phelan
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 11:10 am: |
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Oh, and what is BAS function? |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 11:27 am: |
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I think it would be easiest to add the notches to your Buell crank (and lighten it and have it rebuilt to better-than-OE specs, at the same time  )
I'm not sure what it would take to fit the Sporty crank, because the motor changed in '04.
BAS=Bank Angle Sensor. Shuts the bike off if tipped over. Also self-cancels turn signals, and trips security and alarm (if equipped). |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 11:29 am: |
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I do think that, if the XL EFI crank fits and works, that would be the most accurate. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 11:36 am: |
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Now I feel like an idiot . I was thinking about the bank able sensor when I read the post, but didn't make the connection. You're probably right on the crank, I'm just getting jitters about the idea of the crank being notched wrong and everything being off. I'm probably overthinking it, which is easy for me to do. About the temp sensor. Can the Delphi system run a cooling fan like the XBs where it comes on at a certain temp and shuts off below another temp? I just thought of that cuz O have an XB fan sittin' in the closet. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 11:39 am: |
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I just saw your last post above. I think the same thing. It seems like it would be easier to have a new shaft turned down for the tuber cases than it would to machine the tuber flywheels. I can't imagine the XL wheels being a different size since they have the same bore ad stroke of the tubers. I would diffinitely ha e them lightened though, to at least match the gains of an X1 crank. |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 11:49 am: |
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The Screamin' Eagle catalog says cams are compatible for mid-90's to '04-later XL's, so I'd bet the cam side of the crank will work, but you still have to make sure that main bearings, and primary drive side parts interchange, as well as basics like overall flywheel width and stuff.
I bet Denver Cranks could build whatever you need.
Cooling fan? Please.
You betta recognize! The Delphi system will start dropping every 4th firing to cool down the motor if it gets too hot. Still too hot? Then it drops every other!
It's a nifty system! |
Phelan
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 04:14 pm: |
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The TSM, are you talking about Delphi 68920-07? If so, what p/n is the TSSM? |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 04:52 pm: |
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I'm not sure on #'s. There are plenty of TSM/TSSM's to pick from. They vary based on OE orientation (X,Y,and Z axis) so you need to figure out how you're going to mount it, first.
Also, I was thinking about. I am pretty sure the crank shop could mate a EFI sporty flywheel half to a Buell flywheel/shafts, and give the precision and fit. Junk EFI flywheels turn up from time to time. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2008 - 09:17 pm: |
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Yeah, there's a good set on the bay now. It seems nearly all the parts I'd need are on eBay right now. Sounds about right, cuz the only time I find good deals is when I'm broke LOL. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2008 - 09:20 pm: |
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So what's the difference between the SE race tuner and SE Pro Super Tuner? The good news I found is that the race tuner will work for all EFI models, all I have to do is be patient and someone unloading one on the bay for peanuts. |
Oldog
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 12:43 am: |
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Jos I had an Idea I was checking the static timing through the window between the cylinders, for retro fit the crank can be "dimpled" or "notched at the location of the window the sensor can be installed there. I reset the timing it appeared to be overly advanced BTW has any one noticed that one injector clickes as the mark reaches TDC point, ( transition on to off or V/V )the ECM spy display is too slow to try and catch it unless you are deliberate
about the adjustment.
One other thing I noticed was that at rest cold there was about a 5c deg temp error,
the race box wanted to run an afv of 110 ~ 115,
the stock box is almost dead on at 99
(Message edited by oldog on November 16, 2008) |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 12:19 pm: |
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That click is not an injector, but a relay, and it can be an adequate method of testing timing.
If you were to use the timing hole as a location for your CKP, you would need to have your "-2" teeth re-clocked appropriately. The Delphi EFI has many background maps that require VERY specific/accurate timing reference.
I know not the difference between SE race tuner and SE Pro Super Tuner. I could call a friend or two, though. |
Oldog
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 06:59 pm: |
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 That click is not an injector, but a relay
After carefuly reading the wiring diagram
I can't find which relay that would be on the X1. as one is the starter and the other is the ignition relay? the coils, fuel pump and injectors are directly connected to the ECM Black connector, or ground.
FWIW, I presume that the CPS simply generates a pulse each time a notch goes by, the ecm counts the notches, perhaps the duration of one of the notches signifies either TDC, or "0" where ever that is relative to the engine operating cycle, A good machine shop like the "crank" shop mentioned earlier could apply the correct cuts to that wheel for the timing, and no welding would be required on the cases. the hole is there, and the pattern can be cut there as the TDC #1 cylinder indicator there nowI wonder why Buell did not do that to start with The only thing that I can think of is lack of adjustment, but the same problem would likely manifest its self in either scenario
BTW I heard the injector on the rear cylinder click, I did it a number of times to confirm it. The only relays other than my HID Hilo position control relay are farther back under the seat. I know that the pump cycles on and off while the engine spins as I tested the timing indicator on ecm spy by rolling the engine
plugs out, coils / pump disconnected its too slow. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2008 - 10:44 pm: |
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Something came up in my project S2T thread, and since nobody ventures over there, I'll post it here (very related anyway). I was told the Super Tuner is basically a replacement for the Race Tuner. That being said, I was also told it is VIN locked after start-up to work on only one bike. That's fine and dandy, unless it's on a build like mine. My question is, how locked is it? In other words, will I need the VIN from the sporty my parts come off of or can I use the S2 VIN from the frame. I don't care that it's locked for one bike. I DO care if I can't use it because I don't have a VIN to match the ECM. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 12:28 am: |
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Ross, my partner is familiar with Race Tuners, give him a call. Terry,707 996-6103. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 12:38 am: |
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Thanks Jim, I will call him probably early next week so I don't interrupt to holiday feasting LOL. BTW HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE! |
Pkforbes87
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 09:31 am: |
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"VIN locked after start-up to work on only one bike."
I would assume that means that the tuner locks exclusively to the first ECM it is connected to. You shouldn't have to do anything to lock it.
This thread is VERY interesting even though I don't have even half of the know-how needed for such a project. Good luck! I'll be anxiously watching for updates. |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 11:19 am: |
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The older gen Race tuner that I've used mated to the ECM it was hooked to (The ECM stores the VIN) and that was the ecm it was mated to. Very monogamous.
You can, however, have the HD dealer change the VIN in the ECM (In case of ECM replacements and such) but I don't think a non-oe VIN would work (i.e., no FLT reflashing on an XL vin.
I'd read on the XB board where a guy used a late XL EFI crank in an XB, so I'm guessing retro's are possible. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 11:40 am: |
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I see. So do you think the dealer would be able to get it to work in other words? |
Phelan
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 11:46 am: |
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Or how about this. If I have a friend that already has an EFI sporty and a race tuner, and I buy my own race tuner, would it be ethical and feasible to ask the dealer to change the VIN in MY ECM to the VIN from by friend's bike to trick the race tuner to work for my system? |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 05:43 pm: |
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It doesn't quite work like that...They (HD) have it set up so as not to allow that. It's been awhile, I wish I could remember specifics!
As far as using the XL ECM on a Buell, lets put it this way....if the Ecm is installed on your lawnmower, how would the ECM know, as long as it has a legit VIN to work with? It would be good to use a friends' VIN, instead of making one up.
I don't see an issue with two ECM's sharing a VIN (unless it becomes a theft/chopshop issue). I have made spare ECM's for a friends XB12X using the Digital Tech before. It's not like you have two frames with the same VIN. |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 05:43 pm: |
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I wish I had the funds to pursue this project myself, now! |
Phelan
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 11:35 am: |
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From what Alex was saying about XB9 cranks in tuber cases in another thread, the crank side of this project sounds even more doable than ever. I can't wait to get started. I think I will use my '03 XL1200S cases since they have the speedo sensor in the tranny, and I have a line on an S2 frame and title if I decide after researching state laws that a salvage title is worth messing with. |
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