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Mikeyp
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 02:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

After a few years of sitting i got my bike (98 S1W) running yesterday.
New battery, cleaned carb, changed fluids etc..

Went ripping around for 20 minutes or so, and i stopped by a friends house for a minute.

When i went to leave, i tried to start my bike, and all i got was click-click-click.

Battery seemed to go dead.
Anyway, i jumped it and got home.

Thing is i want to know what shit the bed, my voltage regulator, or my stator?

How do i determine which one is bad?

What kind of diagnostic tests can i do to check the status of the stator and the voltage regulator to see if they are good?
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Skntpig
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You can download the Service Manual from the KV I think. I think it may be your battery if it will drive when started but not start on batt power only.

It drives so that makes me think it's charging. I may try the cheap ignition relay if your battery is in fact good.

Look at this about batt maint. http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/maintenance/battery .htm
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Jstfrfun
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 03:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Lots of stuff can be a problem but, before you go deep, check the battery to be sure it spent it's power on your ride. Check the cable ends(both ends not just the batt terminals)to be sure they are clean and good contact. Put a meter on it to verify if there is power above 1200rpm. diagnose the easy way first, you'll get to the expensive stuff soon enough.
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Mikeyp
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 03:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks for the help, and i already own a manual. And the battery is brand new.

All cables are tight and clean, with no breaks.

In the past i changed the stator, and the voltage regulator.

Thing that i'm specfically looking for is this.

I think there was a ohm reading when you took the connector apart that leads to the stator.

With a multimeter you would take the reading through the windings of the stator.

I don't remember what the value was, or for that matter the exact type of electrical test it was. I don't know if it was justa simple continuity test, or an ohm reading.

Like i said, i changed that thing like 5 years ago.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 03:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Check battery connections, make sure they are clean. Could be the starter relay as well, letting that sit for a couple years could have made it weak.
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 03:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

"All electrical problem, until proven otherwise, may be presumed to be caused by a poor ground"

Al Lighton - Famed Philosopher



I was going to say "call an electrician, but at this age it would be embarrassing to get my ass kicked.

: )
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Nukeblue
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

just replaced my stator. the test was at that connector while running at like 2,000 rpm you should have around 58 a/c volts measuring across them unplugged. i had 2. off hand i don't remember the ohm numbers but i can check my service manual later..
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Jos51700
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A new battery can still be a dead battery. Test it.

alzo, though the numbers are different, the procedure is the same:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/399541.html?1222892386
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Skntpig
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 04:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Try new starter relay if you know your battery is fine during a starting load.

Mine did this with a new battery until I changed out the relay.

It did this syndrome for about a year before I stumbled across the fix.
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I replaced my stator last year, but cannot recall the test I used to confirm that it was the culprit. I think you are on the right track with a continuity test at the pigtail though. It's in the manual somewhere.
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah, an electrician would come in handy. : b
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mike,

Diagnostic routine for charging system issues begins on page 7-24 of the service manual.
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Voltage Regulator Bleed Test

Be sure regulator is connected to battery. Unplug regulator
connector to engine crankcase. Use a trouble light and touch
one probe to a known good ground and the other to the regulator
pins, one at a time. If light glows, replace regulator.

Milliampere Draw Test

NOTE
Be sure accessories are not wired so they stay on at all times.
Check for this by connecting ammeter between negative battery
terminal and battery.

See Figure 7-20. Connect ammeter between negative battery
terminal and battery. With this arrangement, you will also pick
up any regulator drain. With ignition switch and all lights and
accessories turned to LOCK, amperage reading should be 3
milliamperes maximum. A higher reading indicates excessive
current draw.

Any accessories must be considered and checked for excessive
drain.

This condition could drain battery completely if vehicle is
parked for a long time.

NOTE
A battery with a surface discharge condition could suffer a
static drain. Correct by cleaning battery case.




Total Current Draw Test

See Figure 7-21. If battery runs down during use, the current
draw of the motorcycle components and accessories may
exceed output of the charging system. To check for this condition,
place load tester induction pickup or current probe
pickup over battery negative cable.

With ignition and all continuously running lights and accessories
turned on (headlamp on high beam), wait 10 seconds,
and then read the total current draw. Compare this reading to
the reading obtained in CURRENT AND VOLTAGE OUTPUT
TEST. The current output should exceed current draw by 6.5
amps, minimum (3 amps for ignition and 3.5 amps for battery
maintenance). If not, there may be too many accessories for
the charging system to handle.

NOTE
Rider’s habits may require output test at lower RPM.




Current and Voltage Output Test

1. See Figure 7-22. Connect load tester.
a. Connect negative and positive leads to battery terminals.
b. Place load tester induction pickup over positive regulator
cable.
2. Run the engine at 2000 RPM. Increase the load as
required to obtain a constant 13.0 VDC.
3. The current output should be 19-23 amps. Make note of
measurement.

Voltage Output Test

See Figure 7-22. After removing the load, read the load tester
voltage meter. Voltage to the battery must not be more than
15 VDC. If voltage is higher, regulator is not functioning properly
or connections are loose or dirty.


!CAUTION!
Do not leave any load switch turned on for more than 20
seconds or overheating and tester damage are possible.
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Stator Check

1. Turn ignition to LOCK.

2. Disconnect stator wiring from voltage regulator wiring at
connector [P17].

3. See Figure 7-23. Connect an ohmmeter on the RX1
scale between crankcase and either stator socket. Test
for continuity.
a. A good stator will show no continuity
across either test point.

b. Any other reading indicates a grounded stator which
must be replaced.
4. See Figure 7-24. Check the resistance using an ohmmeter
set on the RX1 scale.
a. Resistance across the stator sockets or pins should
be 0.2-0.4 ohms.

b. If the resistance is lower, the stator is damaged and
must be replaced.



AC Output Check
1. See Figure 7-25. Test AC output.
a. Disconnect voltage regulator wiring at connector
[P17].

b. Connect an AC voltmeter across both stator sockets.

c. Run the engine at 2000 RPM. The AC output should be 38-52 volts AC.
2. Compare test results to specifications.
a. If the output is below specifications, charging problem
could be a faulty rotor or stator.

b. If output is good, charging problem might be faulty regulator/rectifier. Replace as required.
3. Check the output again as described under Current and
Voltage Output Test.
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Road_thing
Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 06:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mikey--

Are we talking a loud "click-click-click" from the solenoid or a faint "click" from under the side panel?

Faint click points to the starter relay--cheap & easy fix. Loud click points to battery (prob not the prob if it's brand new) or maybe a bad connection. Check your ignition switch, too---they kind of shake themselves apart, especially if you throw your bike on the sidewalk and sit on it...

rt
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Mikeyp
Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 04:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Court, if i could sit still long enough, yea, an ass kickin might be in order...; )

I appreciate everyone's advice. I'll go over everything this sunday, and i'll let you know how i make out.

(I even got the Big Kahuna to post on my thread! Thanks Blake!)
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Mikeyp
Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 04:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Road Thing...
We're talking loud clicks!

BTW... great inside old school reference! LOL!
I gotta dig up those pics..
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Mikeyp
Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Found One!

Crash
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Road_thing
Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah, that's the picture!

Loud clicks, huh? Well, I still recommend you load test your freshly charged battery--even brand new ones go bad sometimes.

If it checks out, you're probably not charging (duh--you already figured that much out--I'm just kinda walking through this for my own benefit!). I can't add much to what Blake and your FSM already told you, but here goes:

1) Burned stators smell real bad-no mistaking it if you open the primary and you smell something like burned hog guts rotting in a backed-up sewer.

2) The little clip that holds the stator leads steady can chew through the insulation pretty quick. Relieve the edges with a Dremel or a file, after repairing the damage.

Good luck!

rt
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Road_thing
Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

PS--if it was me, and I found either the stator or the VR bad, I'd replace 'em both.

Yeah, I hate pushing enough to spend the extra $$. Besides, Buells get a bad enough rap on reliability when they're running-if somebody makes some smart-ass remark to me while I'm already about 98% pissed off about pushing my bike home, well, I can't be responsible for my actions...

rt
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Sportyeric
Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 02:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If your bike is currently faling to start, can you borrow someone else's starter relay? I had my S2 doing the same thing intermittently and when it finally refused to fix itself I was, fortunately at home. I swapped out the relay with the one from my Sportster and it fixed it. I think the relay only cost $10 at an auto shop. So I'd start there.
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Jos51700
Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 07:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Loud clicks?

Not starting??

Been sitting for ages???

I'm guessing Co-rosion onna starter solenoid plate...(Iffa da bat-tray tests otay)
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Buellistic
Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

IMHO "PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE" should also be mentioned here !!!

This would stop 99.9% of the "MYSTERY ELECTRICAl PROBLEMS" that occur ...

Purchase a BATTERY TENDER PLUS" ...When not riding, keep battery on trickle charge ... If the the BATTERY will not "FLOAT" the GREEN LED will flash which means the BATTERY should be replaced ... If you get the VERY LAST "ELECTRON" out of your BATTERY, not only will you be setting on the side of the road/parking lot, "BUT" that last "ELECTRON" can and could take out the voltage regulator and/or stator with that last "ELECTRON" ...

When that that last "ELECTRON" is leaving the BATTERY the CHARGING SYSTEM is trying to put "ELECTRONS" back into the BATTERY
and of which can not accept them because the BATTERY is basically bad ... "BUT" the charging system will try to force the "ELECTRONS" back in which causes HEAT ... HEAT kills the stator/voltage regulator and/or both at the same time ...
Mentioning HEAT, if your primary chain is adjusted too tight, this also causes the excessive HEAT(the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL is wrong and chain should be adjusted to 3/4 inch on the tight spot) ...

You should check the tightness of you BATTERY terminals once a month because a loose a BATTERY terminal causes a high resistance open and the charging system see's that as a low charged BATTERY which will cause excessive heat trying to force "ELECTRONS" through the high resistance open ...

Now its talk about the "WIGGLE TEST" as you ride ... If you do not tye wrap all your wiring to where it dose not wiggle it will eventually cause a MYSTERY ELECTRICAL PROBLEM ... ie: broken wire and/or bad connection ...

The reason "i" say this is that "i" have proven it to be correct ... Still running my OEM CHARGING SYSTEM and never had any of those "MYSTERY ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS" ...

Have 105,362.9 miles on my 1997 S3T as of the last ride ...

ONE THING ABOUT "MYSTERY ELECTRICAL PROMLEM/PROBLEMS" IS THEY ARE A PAIN IN THE "ARSE" TO TROUBLE SHOOT !!!
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Skntpig
Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One final time...LOUD CLICKS RIGHT?

Try a new starter relay. If your battery is in fact good then I bet it's the relay.

DID YOU TRY A NEW ONE YET? 1 minute and $10 fix.
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