| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
What would be great is a real breakthrough. If we can harness Fusion we could take garbage, feed it into a plasma torch, and sort out the bits we wanted on an elemental level. The Fusion part actually looks better than it has in decades. I know the mantra with fusion is "in 20 years" and has been for 60. The work of the late Robert Bussard looks like the right answer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polywell Like the Farnsworth Fusor, http://www.farnovision.com/chronicles/fusion/vassi latos.html where genius freshmen build fusion reactors in their dorm room http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Homemade_fusion_ reactor.JPG people are actually trying to build Polywell reactors at home. http://prometheusfusionperfection.com/ I've just started to skim this and already have a renewed craving for a MakerBot. The further refinement of plasma processing of material is probably going to take a few years. We have to figure out how to spray continuous fusion plasma in one direction... I suspect that the "rocket" mode of a fusion chamber may actually be easier to work out than trying to hold the "fire" in one place.... Cook County? Could this be the true cause of the "Chicago School of economics"? I'd be curious to know what got buried and what got just sent to the dump. How radioactive are those Graphite blocks, today, or the metal fittings made radioactive by neutron activation? ( being bombarded by neutrons makes new, radioactive isotopes of iron, for example ) One of the real problems at Area 51 is the contaminated areas where toxic paints and lubricants got dumped/spilled. On a regular Air Base, you'd deal with it the same as civilians, with contractors and best technology, but if you've spilled some crud that you really want to keep secret, You have problems. ( don't want everyone to get the invisible paint, do you? ) | ||
| Diablobrian |
interesting reading for sure. And maybe an answer to why so many corpses have been voting in Cook County over the years? just a theory! I was a Navy conventional steam engineer myself and after I got out I ended up working on a few nuke plants myself, as well as cryogenics (O2N2). Fun stuff, but hated how unsteady the work was. Ever hear why the Army has no nuclear power program? The Wiki on US Army nuclear power has the basic story of the SL-1 Boiling water reactor in bare bones but they downplay this event's importance in the DOE taking the Army's ability to play in the Nuclear military away. Nasty NASTY mess. many careers were destroyed with that reactor. and the poor buggers that died there, may they rest in peace. "SL-1: Boiling water reactor, 300kWe, National Reactor Testing Station, Idaho. Initial criticality August 11, 1958. Site of the only fatal accident at a US nuclear power reactor, on January 3, 1961, which destroyed the reactor. The SL-1 was designed by the Argonne National Laboratory to gain experience in boiling water reactor operations, develop performance characteristics, train military crews, and test components. Combustion Engineering was awarded a contract by the AEC to operate the SL-1 and in turn employed the Army's military operating crew to continue running the plant. This BWR was specifically designed to power DEW line stations. Three men were killed when this reactor plant went from shutdown to prompt critical during a maintenance procedure. The accident happened when a control rod jammed during refueling. Two men entered the containment facility to unjam the rod. In so doing, they withdrew the rod. The core instantly went critical and the cooling water, which also served as the moderator, flashed to steam. The rod pinned one man to the ceiling and the steam flash killed the other. After the accident, the third man left the control room and entered the containment, where he was killed by the radiation. This accident was important in the development of commercial power because future designs prevented the core from going critical with the removal of a single rod." The Navy's nuclear program still runs it's school in Idaho and they take to students on a field trip out to the site of the Army's catastrophic failure as a reminder of just what is at stake when they are operating these plants and just how fast it can all go wrong. Lesson learned, but at a huge personal cost to those men. (Message edited by Diablobrian on October 17, 2012) | ||
| Geedee |
Sifo, I apologise to you. My humour is twisted. It is late, I have just finished work and will reply properly when I have the chance. Gregtonn, you guys would know more about nuclear than I. NZ has been anti-nuclear for years and that caused a rift with our US military relations. I can't help but think that new energy sources are being withheld. Energy is a control mechanism. Couldn't have us all with Aesquire's little black energy box and off the grid. That's what I meant by nuclear being antiquated, and the issue of waste disposal and re-processing. Burying it in the ground or dumping it in concrete coffins in the deep sea is pretty irresponsible of us to future generations. All the alternative energy methods offered also require big setup and supply lines. Control again. Remember the Gillette safety razor? They gave away the razor knowing they'd make plenty on the blades. I pulled a couple of links from my archives regarding side affects with nuclear energy. I'm positive there is better. America alone must have untold numbers of suppressed inventions locked away from us, like Tesla's. Too many clever folk emigrated to your shores over the years for there not to be. http://www.wise-uranium.org/uhm.html http://rense.com/general81/oralcncr.htm "How many people have been killed by nuclear waste this year?" How would you know? Lots of people suffering silently. I don't think you are being told anything about the waves of radiation crossing your continent from Fukushima either. Check that one out, and prepare for the consequences. Although, like tobacco related health problems, prove it. At least tobacco was a personal choice. I'm not a greenie. Far from it. 'kem. Do Americans think Alexie Sayle is funny? I need sleep. (Message edited by Geedee on October 17, 2012) | ||
| Nobuell |
GeeDee The suppressed power generation inventions are keep in the same warehouse with the 300 MPG carburetors and the pill that converts water into gasoline. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Geedee, According to your theory the French should be dying by the millions. >France derives over 75% of its electricity from nuclear energy. This is due to a long-standing policy based on energy security. >France is the world's largest net exporter of electricity due to its very low cost of generation, and gains over EUR 3 billion per year from this. >France has been very active in developing nuclear technology. Reactors and fuel products and services are a major export. >It is building its first Generation III reactor and planning a second. >About 17% of France's electricity is from recycled nuclear fuel. More here: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf40.html G | ||
| Geedee |
Yes, I know  . http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/alternative/43 723/U-S-Patent-Office-Holds-Secret-5000-Patents I think you might be able to educate me on a few things Nobuell. Pity you weren't so far away. "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool." Hey, that could be me :-). | ||
| Geedee |
Gregtonn, I can see I'm digging myself into a big hole here. I know that nuclear is pretty safe, until it isn't. Risk is low, until it isn't. When it isn't, it's pretty bad. http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/04/chernobyl _disaster_25th_annive.html Don't you think we can do better? I give up  . | ||
| Pwnzor |
Chernobyl is nothing like any modern reactor. You're right, when nuclear goes bad, it does so in spades. However, it is a risk I would readily accept in my back yard. I have delivered hundreds of truckloads to nuclear plants and those people run a tight ship. | ||
| Hootowl |
First gen reactors suck. That's what Japan has. Not sure what Chernobyl was, but you have to also consider who was running the place. The Soviets weren't exactly good stewards of the environment. Russia is one big superfund site. | ||
| Sifo |
However, it is a risk I would readily accept in my back yard. I practically do. I have no problem with it at all. I kind of prefer it to miles and miles of windmills we also have in the area. For some strange reason though, the nuclear reactors require huge power lines, while the wind farms get by with much smaller sets of power lines. I guess wind power must be more efficient.  | ||
| Aesquire |
If Fukushima is a first gen plant, ( actually, about 3rd or 4th, depending on your point of view ) then Chernobyl is -2. Chernobyl is really not even first gen for power plants, it's more like you took the first bunsen burner from the lab, scaled it up to blow over a water tank, and the rest of the system, turbines, generators, are pretty much as Tesla designed them. ( still are for most of the electric industry. Tesla was a genius. ) Like I said, Graphite power reactors are like furnaces built of pine. A little metal foil and fiberglass can make it work, but practical & safe? There are a few fallacies in how people think of nuclear waste. Most of it is really low level stuff, paper booties & suits, that really can be put in a tin can and left to rot. By the time the can is gone, the radiation is too. Even that stuff might have a practical use someday, so proper storage is desirable. Stainless steel drums work fine. The high level stuff, used reactor rods and medical isotopes come to mind, can be burned up now, and rendered inert, or at least run through the isotope cycle to low level. That's AFTER you pull off the metals you want to use again. Uranium reactors burn a tiny fraction of the useful isotopes in a rods life cycle. You have to pull them, and rebuild them. There's still lots of useful fuel in there, but it's contaminated and won't chain react as efficiently. Different geometries in new deigns don't solve that problem, but you can make it easier to recycle. After all, cars are much easier today to recycle than they used to be, because we make them that way. Todays water bottle is tomorrows fender is the next decades tackle box. Sifo, yes, wind is more efficient at making tiny and sporadic amounts of power. For that, you don't need the big wires. Myself, I like Helium cooled pebble bed designs that never hit melting steel temperatures. You lose a little total efficiency that way, but proper design gives you a heat source to boil water that won't be a bother even after the earthquake/terrorist attack/drunk operator as long as a heavy thick stainless steel can ( that you build it as ) isn't broken. We test containers for this kind of stuff pretty severely. Nothing is perfect, of course. What's worst case? A half kilometer asteroid strike directly on your reactor? Who'd notice the reactor? My proposal for temporary storage is to pick someplace like Ft. Irwin, build a nice set of warehouses, set up razor wire fences with nice warning signs in all the languages you can think of "Cross this fence and you will die". Then make that so. ( you've got the Blackhorse cav to make it stick. ) Or if you'd prefer the longer term, less expensive way, pick an aboveground test crater, ( after all, it's contaminated forever, isn't it? ) pile the stuff up naked, same fences and warning signs. ( the sign is not a threat, it's a promise ) As long as we don't get giant ants... should be fine. A few vultures may die feasting on ELF & Greenpeace corpses... I may have to rethink this one... | ||
| Aesquire |
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| Nobuell |
Sifo They have small power lines because they do not generate much power. | ||
| Sifo |
I was just trying to not be so blunt about that fact. | ||
| Nobuell |
Sifo I am an engineer. It is my job to be blunt! Geedee - I was just kidding with you. Wait, is that a black helicopter hovering outside?  | ||
| Nobuell |
Sifo, Have you ever driven past the wind farm north of Purdue U? Fowler Ridge/Goodland wind farm is one of the largest in the country. They have 674 wind turbines that cover approximately 180 sq miles. The name plate capacity is only 680 MW. Compare that to the Braidwood Nuclear Station near us in Chicago area at 2600 MW since the recent power update. It has a 96.2 percent capacity factor. It is only down long enough for fueling. The capacity factor for a typical wind farm is approximately 30 percent. Lots of land and lots of maintenance for such a small amount of power that can be counted on only 30% of the time. | ||
| Sifo |
I don't think I've been past that one. I've seen plenty of other ones though. They can go on for mile after mile. It's an incredible amount of land for the power lines that come out of them. | ||
| Hootowl |
"If Fukushima is a first gen plant, ( actually, about 3rd or 4th, depending on your point of view )" I wasn't specifically referring to the Fukushima plant. After the tsunami, the news was saying most of Japan's plants are first generation. | ||
| Aesquire |
That is correct. The "generation" a plant is, depends on your definition. First gen ( commercial power mass production ) nuke plants are what we've got here, too. You could argue that that same plant is 4th gen based on the major changes in how we make reactors, but based on commercial success, 1st and 2nd gen is pretty much it. What they stuff in a Seawolf is a whole different kettle. Lots of power in a compact package and designed to be run by teenagers. Dedicated, highly trained teenagers, true. Consider the accident at SL-1 as posted by Diablobrian above... A reactor that overheats when one thing goes wrong? That is very immature technology. ( also some years ago... ) We'd have much more refined reactors if not for political reasons. I'm not sure how the French are building them, but I bet they've advanced a bit beyond the original one they built ( probably a GE model back then ) The Swiss and South Africans are ahead of the US in Commercial power production reactors. http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf86.html And I see because of Fukushima the Parliment caved to hysteria and they will build no more or replace the ones they have until they get balls again. ( probably when the next oil war happens... ) | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf40.html Thirteen experimental and power reactors are being decommissioned in France, nine of them first-generation gas-cooled, graphite-moderated types, six being very similar to the UK Magnox type. and In mid 2006 the CEA signed a four-year EUR 3.8 billion R&D contract with the government, including development of two types of fast neutron reactors which are essentially Generation IV designs: an improved version of the sodium-cooled type which already has 45 reactor-years operational experience in France, and an innovative gas-cooled type. Both would have fuel recycling, and by mid 2012 a decision is due to be taken on whether and how to transmute minor actinides. The CEA is seeking support under the EC's European Sustainable Nuclear Industrial Initiative and partnerships with Japan and China to develop the sodium-cooled model. However, it notes that China (like India) is aiming for high breeding ratios to produce enough plutonium to crank up a major push into fast reactors. The National Scientific Evaluation Committee (CNE) in mid 2009 said that the sodium-cooled model, Astrid (Advanced Sodium Technological Reactor for Industrial Demonstration), should be a high priority in R&D on account of its actinide-burning potential. It is envisaged as a 600 MWe prototype of a commercial series which is likely to be deployed from about 2050. It will have high fuel burnup, including minor actinides in the fuel elements, and use an intermediate sodium loop, though whether the tertiary coolant is water/steam or gas is an open question. Four independent heat exchanger loops are likely, and it will be designed to reduce the probability and consequences of severe accidents to an extent that is not now done with FNRs. Astrid is called a "self-generating" fast reactor rather than a breeder in order to demonstrate low net plutonium production. Astrid is designed to meet the stringent criteria of the Generation IV International Forum in terms of safety, economy and proliferation resistance. CEA plans to build it at Marcoule. So perhaps Fukushima is a 2nd or 3 gen... like I said, it depends on your definition. I'm personally leery of sodium loops just on the grounds that I'm chicken about using a cooling fluid thats normally a solid metal. It has nothing to do with nuclear power. It's my irrational fear of sprays of hot, liquid flaming metal.  One thing worth noting here, is that you can breed new fuel and create a sustainable power economy with low to zip CO2 emissions ( the backup generators will be diesel, after all ) independence from foreign oil, and none of the ecological disaster problems of giant wind farms ( with the associated dead birds... ) or covering Texas with solar panels. But there is a strong anti-nuclear movement that doesn't want that. ( you could say, to parrot the Global Warming Movement, These Deniers are in the pay of the Evil Oil Companies ) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Don't worry, we will break out firehose and spray you with water after it happens. Oh wait.  | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Yeah well, the nuclear industry here is dragging it's heels & wasting as much time as possible in the hope that Francois Hollande gets voted out at the next presidential in 4.5 yrs time. He sold out Nuclear to the Greens to get elected, promising shutdowns & such but with no clue what to replace the lost capacity with. It's a hot topic here. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Don't worry, we will break out firehose and spray you with water after it happens. Oh wait. Yea, that whole sodium reacting violently with water deal was kind of a minor drawback to that, wasn't it?  Apparently the latest thinking on nuclear in the U.S. is much smaller plants (mainly to get through the approval process in a reasonable time) and build more of them. OTOH I remember reading a summary of a Cato Institute study a few years back that said neither nuclear or solar power were economically viable in their present states based on long-term life-cycle analyses. Both rely heavily on government subsidies to work. The study went on to say something to the effect that conservatives ignore this about nuclear while liberals ignore this about solar. It'd be interesting to see how the current state-of-the-art shakes out in this regard. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'd be interested in more information about the study. My concerns with solar and wind start with physics. Once that is overcome, then i can worry about economics. At least with nuclear, the physics appear that they might work. | ||
| Aesquire |
Ultimate energy use comes with a Dyson Sphere. That's Solar Power! Big fan of orbital Solar. The economics make sense, when you go to full production, to fabricate the solar panels on Luna. ( with solar power, too ) That takes the pollution off planet, and makes for a Greener world by far. And who doesn't want to Honeymoon at the Luna Hilton? Niagra Falls? Vegas? Don't get 1/6 G back there, (think what that does to the Kama Sutra! ) and what could be more romantic? | ||
| Aesquire |
Political, right wing, biased... enjoy or avoid. http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=105&load=7585 | ||
| Geedee |
"I'm still waiting for the lay man's explanation for how HAARP causes earthquakes. That seems like a pretty important detail when asking someone to believe that HAARP is being used as an earthquake gun." Hi Sifo. I'll do my best to explain some of what I know about HAARP (High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Project) induced earthquakes. The largest HAARP site is located near Gakona, Alaska, and is the world's largest Ionospheric heater. It is jointly managed by US Air Force, US Navy, DARPA & University of Alaska. HAARP can shoot high powered beams of directed energy (radio waves) up to 200Kms high. The Ionosphere is 100Kms (62 miles) above the earth. The known uses of HAARP are weather modification, earth tomography, 'Star Wars'-type defense capabilities, enhanced communications (especially with US submarines), communications disruption and mind control (using the same frequencies as the human brain). Whale beachings may be caused by HAARP frequencies interfering with their sonars. There are a lesser powered Ionospheric heaters located near Fairbanks Alaska, Puerto Rico, Norway, Russia, Tajikistan, Peru, The Middle East and Australia. Russia, China and US have also set up HAARP-like facilities in Antarctica. In order to increase functionality and effectiveness, Ionospheric heaters are used in combination, and can be mobile and on ships. The HAARP technology used by US was patented by Bernard Eastlund based on Nikola Tesla's electromagnetic frequency generators. HAARP can be used in conjunction with chemtrails, which contain metallic particles such as aluminium, barium salts and strontium, which increases the conductivity of the atmosphere and creates a plasma-like envelope from 30,000 feet to the ground. Analysis of some chemtrails has also indicated fungal spores, blood cells and pathogens. WTF? By heating up the Ionosphere and ballooning and oscillating its ceiling, ELF (extremely Low Frequency) signals can be bounced down into and penetrating the ground. By focusing the energy a cyclotron resonance can be created which can vibrate and induce an earthquake, especially on a faultline, or by heating a watertable. A signal sent up to the Ionosphere acts as a catalyst with natural energy up there which can amplify the signal up to a thousand times. HAARP in Alaska is capable of a billion watts of energy. The Earth's Magnetosphere can also be charged and used as a giant global communications antenna. It's an interesting subject surrounded by denials and misinformation. Gary | ||
| Aesquire |
But...ELF signals already penetrate the ground. That's why we use them for communicating with Submarines under the Indian Ocean. The ELF waves go right through the planet. My Father did some medical work at one of the Navy's ELF Transmitters. Huge. The Whole valley was a transmitter. No one with dental fillings was allowed to work there. When you parked a car, you rammed it into a metal pole buried into the ground to keep from getting zapped when you climbed out. The spark welded the car to the pole. When you drove somewhere you'd have to punch it in reverse to break the weld. Lots of power. Lots. The Soviets did some work on Scalar Waves, trying to follow Tesla's work and develop a weather control/cold wave/mystery Uber weapon. I have to think that if they got anything useful working we'd be paying taxes to Moscow. Willing to entertain the concept, even willing to think about how little things like radio waves can affect a fault line. ( after all, it's a big thingee under lots of stress and the results of small changes can be huge ) HARP has always been the conspiracy clan's favorite thing. It's electrical, It's secret, and It's hard to understand without basic science knowledge most people lack in todays social democratic school systems. Heck, it would actually BE the Perfect cover up for a scary, world domination scheme. All the right players are involved. I'm just having a real problem getting around the issue of the huge number of people who have to be involved in loading the chemicals into airliners. Unless...... they put it in the jet fuel! Yes! but.... that means when I got that deal on the Jet-A and used it in my tractor.............  | ||
| Geedee |
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/scalar.htm 1. A POSSIBLE SCALAR WAR SCENARIO The following seems like science fiction, but scalar beam weapons were invented in 1904 by a American immigrant genius called Nicola Tesla (1856 or 57 -1943) from Yugoslavia. Since he died in 1943, many nations have secretly developed his beam weapons which, now further refined, are so powerful that just by satellite one can: Make a nuclear like destruction; Earthquake; Hurricane; Tidal wave; Cause instant freezing - killing every living thing instantly over many miles; Cause intense heat like a burning fireball over a wide area; induce hypnotic mind control over a whole population; or even read anyone on the planet's mind by remote; Affect anybody's REM dream sleep by sending in subliminal pictures to the visual cortex; Cause hallucinagen drug like effects or the symptoms of chemical or biological poisoning; Make a disease epidemic by imprinting the disease 'signature' right into the cellular structure; Paralyze and/or kill everyone instantaneously in a 50 mile radius; and lastly Remove something right out of its place in time and space faster than the speed of light, without any detectable warning by crossing 2 or more beams with each other and any target can be aimed at even right through to the opposite side of the earth. Check out Russian Woodpecker, Chernobyl nuclear incident whereby the control room lost control of operations just like Fukushima plant. Fukushima, Stuxnet, Mossad, Japanese supplying fuel rods to Iran. http://natzrim.blogspot.co.nz/2011/04/japanese-agr eed-to-supply-iran-with.html News Report "Miyako City - a town of about 60,000 people, was 178 miles from the epicentre of the quake that caused that tsunami, and not as badly affected as Minami Sankiru, where everything in sight has been flattened." Here is video of Minami Sankiru, supposedly 'flattened' by a Magnitude 9 earthquake. Do you know how big that is? I don't see anything flattened, until the Tsunami passes over. Look for video at Sendai,Yamagata, and Fukushima. No damage until the wave. "I'm just having a real problem getting around the issue of the huge number of people who have to be involved in loading the chemicals into airliners." I don't. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5hMsQ1lR7Q&feature =relmfu Repost: "Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves. So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important." Former Defense Secretary William S. Cohen DoD News Briefing Monday, April 28, 1997 I have a question for you. Do you believe that corporations, private or otherwise, need governments, or do governments need corporations? I believe the latter, therefore there is no need for us to know, anything. In the end it doesn't matter what we "useless eaters" living in our mushroom farms think or believe. We are irrelevant in 'their' grander scheme of things :-). "You and I are essentially infinite choice-makers. In every moment of our existence, we are in that field of all possibilities where we have access to an infinity of choices." Deepak Chopra | ||
| Aesquire |
Thank you for the natzrim link. Scalar waves, aether, qualify as lost tech, and it's a hobby. They even have the Nazi flying saucers! I Love that one. Seriously, These rumors have been around for years, but there may be some basis in fact to some of them. The Japanese actually did build Submarine Aircraft carriers in WW2. They were tiny compared to modern floating ones, only carrying 2 to 4 planes, folded in a watertight hanger. The plan was to attack the Panama Canal, but the war ended before the first operational strike. Eyewitness accounts of the capture of one, ( the other(s) were scuttled to keep them out of our hands ) by a sailor on a Destroyer describe it well. ( Huge ) Pictures of both sub and the planes exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-400_class_submarine The Germans also had huge cargo subs, and delivered critical and secret gear to both Japan and South Atlantic bases. Among the things delivered to japan was aerial cannon used in the "Tony" fighter, and engines, plans etc. ( some speculate nuclear material as well ) All well documented. So it makes sense, with the antiaircraft missiles, IRBM's and Cruise missiles actually used by Germany in the war, that Foo-fighters, Saucers, and unworldly powers be considered as well. Like Area 51, and it's testing of stealth or hypersonic recon or bomber planes... People have seen things and not identified them... exactly. ( the SR-71 had a nuclear bomber version in the works, ( never made ) and a fighter version, built and tested ) The Air Force, ( ours or theirs ) is not in the habit of telling people the right names and details of secret projects. ( after all, some don't work as planned, and it can be quite embarrassing. ) Just found this one.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ncsj1tZHsi4&feature =related I've been a big fan of Tesla, and like the idea of the Aether. Not to have a medium the waves travel in, but because if it does exist, the rules are different than assumed if there is none. |
