| Author | Message | ||
     Glitch |
At least you get to talk to someone. When the fork seals whent out on my brand new Bandit it was a freakin' nightmare tryin' to just get over the dealership's head to talk to some one. By the time I thought I was getting results I also found out that if I didn't want to pay for the fix myself I had to wait for new forks to come in from Japan. New forks from Japan? Couldn't I just get the dealer to put in new fork seals? The answer was of course, but I'd have to pay for the labor or just wait for the new forks and get free labor. That dealer is out of business for a reason you can guess. I never got to talk to anyone that worked for Suzuki. Probably wouldn't speek english anyway. After about a month I found another dealer with seals but couldn't get the bike to them because the Bandit was apart at the original dealers and these two dealers didn't get along enough to work together to get me out of their hair. The whole thing was a mess. Then the bike started to consume about a quart of oil every 5 or 6 humdred miles. Suzuki admitted there was a problem with oil consumption over a year after I got rid of the bike. I feel for ya Odie, but it sounds to me like you're being cared for, even if it's too slow for your tastes. As for Randal, don't know him, so I can't say. But know this, even in the most wonderful group of people, there's at least one in every croud. People like us have to deal with this fact. I guess what I'm trying to say is, be glad you don't have a Suzuki with a similar problem, I am. | ||
| Mrh |
The problem may be that the CUSTOMER was not being satisfied at the local dealer level and felt the need to personally contact the factory representatives for support. Buell DOES provide this service, thank-you BMC. Working the Customer Service Hotline can probably seem like the complaint window at K-mart sometimes. Not an easy job I know. I'm employed by the #1 Cadillac dealer in the US for CSI over the past ten years. Our GM is very proud of receiving this award, and believe me it can be no picnic at times turning a disgruntled customer into a happy repeat customer. | ||
| Odie |
I'm happy my motor arrived. I'm looking forward to having my bike back. However, I do not think ANYBODY went above and beyond anything that wasn't already in their job description. I suppose I could've stood on somebody's desk and demanded a new bike but,without the help of an attorney (which I started considering), I think I would've caused more trouble than necessary. I did not walk into the dealer after this happened and rant and rave. Call them and ask them. I TOTALLY understand it is a machine, **** happens. They told me what happened and what the plan was and gave me a timeline. I took them at their word. I understand I'm not the only customer at my dealer or the only person calling Buell "CUSTOMER CARE". If you are having a bad day don't take it out on me, I had nothing to do with it. I wasn't asking for ANYTHING other than information; the correct information. Sure, I would've liked a new bike the next day; that would've been great, but I didn't think that was going to happen and didn't even think about asking that. Nxtr- if I could go out and ride my bike I would certainly love to call BMC and tell them what a great product they have.......no bike-no ride-no smile.......... Mitch- it's funny you bring up GM. 2000 Silverado Z71. 30,000 miles but goes out of warranty on based on time not miles (36 months). Knock sensor goes bad 2 months after warranty is up; it has 2, both are under the intake manifold. I personally didn't feel like at 30000 miles I should be tearing the top off of my motor. I was going to do it myself and would've cost me about $150 and 2 hours time. No big deal. However, I call my salesman and tell him the story and he says "I'll call you back in ten minutes". 5 minutes later the service manager calls me personally and says bring your truck in tomorrow and we'll have it finished by the afternoon- FREE!!!!! I have just become a very satisfied customer who will be back with more of my hard earned cash and send as many people there as I can (sold 3 trucks/Tahoes for them in 3 months time). I hope this all works out and I don't have any more problems with the bike. I think Buells are still great bikes and will probably buy another one eventually. My problem is not with the product. I'm sure my incident is a very isolated case. My problem is with the people I have dealt with and getting the run-around. I didn't want the race kit free or a new bike- I just wanted the correct information.........that's all. Cathy and Michelle at Buell were more than nice and helpful. Randall was a totally different story..........Hopefully I'll be riding by thursday of next week. If all goes well I'll have no hard feelings-**** happens and I'm good with that. That's life. I do not however, appreciate being lied to or talked down to by anybody........... | ||
| Nxtr |
Odie, Good to here it is now being taken care of. I still feel the Dealer could have eliminated 90% of your problems by simply giving you another bike off the floor. However dealers are independent and let's just say some understand customer satisfaction = loyalty over the mighty dollar. V/R, Nick | ||
| Odie |
Nxtr, as stated I didn't rant and rave at all. I acted just the same as the day I did the paperwork and the next day when I rode it home. Yes, it severely sucked but as I keep saying, it is a machine and they mess up. First time I had one mess up this quick but....... I wasn't mad, PO'd, nothing. I talked with my salesman, the service guy, and the finance guy. They said they were on it. That's all I needed. I hung out and waited for my ride home and that was it. I would really love to be riding right now as the wife took the kids to grandma's for the rest of the summer and she won't be back until monday afternoon. I could ride all weekend!! One other thing that I don't like is tearing into a new vehicle. I like to keep things as they were from the factory as long as possible. Exceptions being aircleaners, exhaust, etc........simple bolt on stuff. Right now I'm just happy that my motor is here and I should be riding next week. I LOVE THE BIKE- people disappointed me....... | ||
| Court |
Boy have I got a lot to say about this but my Lab is sitting next to me, already leased, reminding me we are going running. I'll leave with a few brief thoughts. * You have brought up a couple issues that are simutaneously Buells greatest strength and greatest weakness. *Randel Hendricks is a competent, knowledgeable and nice person. His demeanor rubs some folks the wrong way. Don't let that detract from the good he does. He is a VERY experienced Buell rider and dedicated to helping Buell owners. * Randel serves too many masters. * The masters lack his passion and dedication. * Randel can not respond here, so I hope we refrain from turning this into a personality exspose'. * I am glad you got your answers and will be eager to hear that your bike is back together and in service. * Buell has come light years in overcoming quality issues, in fact is at the top of the motorcycle quality scale now. * Buell has significant issues with the dealer network. There are solutions, they may not be readily apparent from inside that network. I stand by what I write in the first issue of Battle2Win and the 1998 "9 Ways to Sell a Buell". I am thankful we have SOMEONE to call. Try it with Ford, Saab, Kawasaki or Honda and you'll get your eyes opened. Holster them and ride.... Court | ||
| Brucelee |
Court is right on. I love the build quality of my Buell and every experience with HD service is tenuous at best. My bike is in the shop now waiting for a clutch cable. 10 business days they say???? Give me a break. I could drive to Wisconsin and back in less time, that is if I had a Buell to ride of course! IF the HD service is the same for their HD bikes, one wonders how the hell these guys ever retain any customers. | ||
| Hogs |
10 DAYS.. You will not leave your ride DOWN for TEN days for a Simple clutch cable??? MAn get anybody that knows anything at all to do it for ya.. ITs like cutting a slice of cake ..how hard is that??/ :-) | ||
| Brucelee |
Well, the bike is still under warranty and it has already been five days. I still have the VFR and the Boxster, so don't feel too bad for me. Still, I still feel it strange that HD can treat their customers like this and still thrive. I do like looking at HD bikes (VROD is hot) but I would not take this willingly from them to ride, say a Sportster! Once warranty is gone, I am looking for a local independent if I can! | ||
| Outrider |
Ten days doesn't sound too bad when you consider that the cable will spend 5 days in transit via UPS. I just shipped a muffler from Milwaukee to a Bueller in Manhattan Beach, CA and that is how long it took via regular UPS Ground. Add to that the time for the dealer to order, receive and install it as well as the Franklin Distribution Centers time to receive, process and ship the order and I think the 10 days is easily spoken for. The whole purpose of this commentary is I hate to see a dealer or a manufacturer get busted for the time in transit. The inverse is, I would like to see more manufacturers offer 1, 2 or 3 day shipping options at the consumers cost. | ||
| Outrider |
My second point is, a clutch cable is a normal wear item and it is my feeling that the dealer should have had at least one in stock. | ||
| Odie |
Court, I agree that Buell being connected to H-D is a double edged sword. I truly believe Buells are great products that have come a long ways since the beginning. I can just sit there and look at the bike and admire the engineering, fit, finish, and then go ride it and feel like I've been to therapy or something. Not many machines can do that for me. Last night I spent some time reading some other topics here and Randall's name came up a few times. There was nothing but great things said about him. I hope the things said about him are all true. I am glad that I have someone to call but, when I call the number that they provide, don't treat me like I'm your punk. Randall was almost chewing me out for calling two days in a row and so sure that nothing had changed. That's why he called me back with a different tone saying that indeed the motor had left 2 days earlier. This whole deal comes down to a few small, easily fixable things- 1. As a dealer/svc guy have all your information as up to date as possible, especially in a situation like this, because you know for a fact the customer is going to be very interested in what's going on. If this would've happened a year from now it wouldn't have been as big of a deal. It was 24 hours later. One of the biggest reasons customers buy new is for reliability. 2. If you are going to offer something call "Customer Care" make sure that it lives up to it's name- correct, up to date info, courteous personnel, etc. I want this to be so very over for numerous reasons. Most importantly I want to ride. I also do not enjoy writing words that reflect poorly on anybody. I would love to have a great relationship with my local dealer but until they realize how their employees treat customers that won't change. Don't get me wrong; there are a few good people at my local dealer. I can't tell you how many people I personally know that will drive to Columbus, Ga. or Atlanta, Birmingham, Montgomery, etc. just because they are very unhappy with Dothan H-D. I would like to think that if Dutch, the owner, knew this he would try to change things as alot of money that is well within his grasp is driving to other places. It all comes down to treating the customer like he deserves to be treated. No customers, no revenue, no job eventually.......... I have always wondered why I can walk into a Chevy or Ford dealer and get treated like a king but when I walk thru the door of just about any H-D dealer (not all) I'm talked down to or ignored entirely. It's a freakin' motorcycle. The exclusiveness of owning a Harley went away a few years ago. I'm curious to see what happens when the desire to look like a biker while you're shopping at Walmart or wandering around the mall goes away and the crest of the wave H-D is riding right now begins to lose strength......Repeat customers who were treated good in the past are going to keep you going...... | ||
| Outrider |
Odie...No disrespect intended, but I find it interesting that the motor shipped two days prior to the paperwork clearing the system. It sounds like somebody expedited the shipment of the order rather than letting it go through the normal channels and not everyone was clued in on the special handling. Just an assumption, I could be wrong (as usual).  | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Odie, are you sure the motor is in your dealers hands yet? Reason I ask is a few years back I sent a motor thru the HD remanufacturing program. Somehow when it was finished instead of being shipped back here it ended up being shipped to Janesville & nobody at HD CS knew where the hell it was. Took 2 days to locate it. | ||
| Spike |
Man, some of you guys could seriously benefit from a little work experience at a dealer. Also, I'd sure hate to see the threads you guys would start if you had to order a painted part for your '03 Harley. At one point Harley's official answer to it's dealers was that it takes 10-12 weeks to get the part, and Harley wouldn't even attempt to track the part until it had been at least 10 weeks. Mike L. | ||
| Outrider |
I can understand Harley's position concerning a painted part, especially if it is not a current production color. No sense in stocking painted parts as forecasting demand by color would be virtually an act of mental masturbation and a potential financial disaster. Simply inventorying the raw steel or primed parts is the most economical way and then just add them to the paint line the next time that color comes up for production. Fortunately for HD, they don't change designs often and they can just up the quantity of work-in-process to meet the replacement painted part demand. Then again, I would think you could get an unpainted or primed part relatively quickly and have a local shop match the color. Just my opinion based on a career as a marketing guy for a number of manufacturing companies all of which were smaller and more flexible than HDI/HD/BMC. Edited to add: Whoops, forgot you referred to a 2003 model. Assuming you want the painted parts to match the original 2003 Anniversary Edition trim jobs, that would be impossible for a local painter. I have a 2003 Wide Glide and hate all that tape, but that supposedly adds to the value of the Anniversary Editions. Catch 22, eh? edited by Outrider on July 04, 2004 | ||
| Brucelee |
"The whole purpose of this commentary is I hate to see a dealer or a manufacturer get busted for the time in transit." A clutch cable, hmmm, well why don't we try STOCKING that item! My Porsche dealer stocks them as well, they tend to BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Brucelee |
BTW- My XB was delivered to me new without an owners manual. I called the Buell Customer Care line and they told me they could not help me. OK, so with all due respect, that is a bullshit answer. If they can't send a new customer an owners manual, they should just unplug the whole service and hang out a sign which says, WE DONT CARE! And, I love the bike. Love/Hate!! | ||
| Court |
>>>>Ten days doesn't sound too bad when you consider that the cable will spend 5 days in transit via UPS. I disagree. That is totally unacceptable. I know the solution. >>>...Randall was almost chewing me out for calling two days in a row He may have been. Randel's passion sometimes comes across a phone line poorly. He and I have had out moments but let me say this. In those times I have agreed with him and in those times I have not, I have always maintained respect for him. I met Randel years before his name was on the Buell radar screen. He's passionate and I assure you few manufacturers have the good fortune to have someone as "into" the product as Randel is with Buell. If I were off for a thousand mile day or changing a swingarm, I'd welcome Randel. We'll visit about your visit. >>>a clutch cable is a normal wear item and it is my feeling that the dealer should have had at least one in stock. That is an accurate statement. Dealers have been provided, in years gone by, with reccomended stocking lists. There are 3 levels based on level of Buell sales. For ANY Buell dealer to not have a clutch cable should evoke the scutiny of the Buell Dealer Relations folks. Not stocking a clutch cable is tantamount to taunting your owners to go to the internet and badmouth you. Ladies and Gents forgive me but to this day I refuse to accept the "HD does, so Buell....". Buell and HD are relatives, not twin brothers. For Buell to survive several metrics need be mastered. The first is service excellence; The XB and Blast have proven Buells committment and excellence. Beyond that there are two more legs of the 3 legged milk stool that Erik Buell drew on a bar napkin for me when many of you were in grade school. Buell does NOT get a "bye", nor can they hide nor use as an excuse..."HD does....". Buell, to quote one of my favorite authors....ME....must be "mobile, agile and hostile". The seek releif in running a 9 minute mile cause your neighbor does a 10 won't cut it. The commercial powers of the market will make Buell look like they have been through something designed by Ron Popeil. Take heart Brothers and Sisters for Erik Buell would self flagilate before he'd do that. Buells are not faster or cheaper. Their commercial lure lies in a mystical "feeling" that requires words like "sense" to enter coporate advertising. It is the type of thing that never appears on head-to-head magazine tests, yet causes Australians to cross oceans annualy and Saab mechanics in Europe to come to the United States to share the comapny of the like minded. Buell must be (not "it would be nice to be" the BEST, {absolute best, in what they do and the way they do it}. Randel is a key, even on his "bad" days, component to that happening. By the way, the story about the owners manual is, I pray, an anomoly. If you still need one, let me know and I'll have one overnighted to you. It is, for the record, the way Erik Buell would do business. Court (these comments are personnel opinions formed on experience. I am in no way associated with Buell Motorcycles, Fischer Motorcycles, Collings Guitars or H.E.B. brand tortilla chips....but, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express) | ||
| Spike |
especially if it is not a current production color. That's just it, it was a current production color. Try communicating to your ~$18k customer that they can't have their new bike back for over two months. And don't get me started on the recent circuit breaker recall. | ||
| Odie |
Outrider- I, too, find it interesting that my motor shipped two days earlier. What interests me the most about this fact is that the person who chewed my butt for calling to check the status of it on his "Customer Care" line didn't know the correct status. You can't tell me that in this day and age of computers that the status of an order or the location of an engine can't be correctly documented. NONE of this would be even talked about right now if the dealer would've said "We have talked to Buell and they will send us a new motor to put in your bike. We estimate that it will probably be a few weeks from today before you can ride again. Plan on the worst, hope for the best." Instead I was told that the motor would be here the next monday and by tuesday I should be riding again. GREAT!!!!!!!! When I called the dealer on monday they told me no motor......we don't even know who to call. So I call BCC and get my butt chewed and then THEY turn out to be oblivious as to where my motor is as well. Would that instill confidence in you? You know what- it all comes down to this- I AM THE CUSTOMER!!!!! Why do I feel like the bad guy........ Dyna, don't think I haven't thought about going to Dothan to actually see my motor. The GM called me and said it was there.............. | ||
| Brucelee |
Court-- I totally agree with you. I have run 3 companies in my lifetime and from a strategic perspective, you have to define yourself and stake out a landscape that is unique and that you have some core competence in. I think that Erik Buell needs to figure out how he is going to get this done. I don't see anyway that the HD dealers are going to deliver the kind of service a rider like me would want. Moreover, the "customer service" phone service is absolutely useless in my experience (actually impotent is a better word). It is one thing to build an unique bike like the XB. It is another to run a successful enterprise. From where I sit, I bought the Buell IN SPITE OF HD, not because of it. That is a very bad position for Buell to be in. I wish them the best and nothing but the worst for HD and their crap dealers (at least the ones I have experienced and read about). | ||
| Court |
I think that Erik Buell needs to figure out how he is going to get this done. I don't see anyway that the HD dealers are going to deliver the kind of service a rider like me would want. Moreover, the "customer service" phone service is absolutely useless in my experience (actually impotent is a better word). I know how. I went into detail at a meeting at the Milwaukee Italian American Club and was lambasted by a couple HD folks. HD does not want Buell to fail. There are some folks withing HD who would love to see EFB fail. It's the Louis Rukeyser "success offends buerecrats" syndrome. Simple jealously. HD suffers from "negative transfer of knowledge" in that their ability to do the "right" Buell things are made difficult to see and understand because of prior learning. Some things that are good for HD simply don't hold water at Buell. This is the basis for the some of the silly stuff that B.R.A.G. does. Don't get me wrong, they do some good, but lots of silly. Few Buellers pay much heed to B.R.A.G., they like it but aren't passionate like they should be. Buell and HD are no always complimentary. But, having differing paths to a goal does not, of necessity, make the other wrong. A Countach and a Jeep CJ are fine vehicles. Providing customer satisfaction for each is unique. Remind me some day to tell you what "quality" is in terms a motorcycle buyers experience. Anyone want to take a crack at it? You are in my court now....don't get me started. Court | ||
| Court |
>>>I AM THE CUSTOMER!!!!! Why do I feel like the bad guy........ You, most assuredly, are NOT the bad guy. You are the one and only reason Buell exists. At a single moment in time this may escape some folks. Temper, frustration or fatigue may deprive someone on the end of a phone line with perspective. Erik Buell has never lost it. (well, at least in THAT regards  ) Court I am on the verge of doing another customers.com rant about customer service in this day and age. I may give a reading assignment. | ||
| Brucelee |
I CAN say that to me, the one very obvious fact that comes through when I chat with HD dealer's locally is that for the most part, they could really care less for me as a customer. I don't expect a perfect world or bike. I DO expect that the folks who took my 10G and will take my $400 in service money at LEAST fake like the care less if I like or don't like what they are doing. It wouldn't hurt if they took a course in faking it. Beyond that, competence would be nice also. My 35 years in trying to perfect the customer service experience tells me that at least locally, EB has a very very tough road to hoe! | ||
| Brucelee |
BTW- the local Porsche dealer DOES have the whole customer service deal down. No German attitude stuff, just a basic concern for the customer and it SHOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
You, most assuredly, are NOT the bad guy. You are the one and only reason Buell exists. After purchasing 2 Buells I am still treated like the bad guy. Didnt want it to go that route & still dont, there is still time & hope to come to an amicable solution. Will they bend tho? No. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Remind me some day to tell you what "quality" is in terms a motorcycle buyers experience. Anyone want to take a crack at it? For me personally quality is treating the customer as if they are the most important thing in the world. Without customers you have nothing. Quality has nothing to do with price or reliability, it has to do with what a person perceives as bang for their buck & if & when problems arise they get fixed in a timely fashion. Most of us realize that bikes will break, hell they are machines & no machine is perfect. But when it does break, why do dealerships & companies look for every excuse in the book to blame the owner? Sometimes even if it actually was the owners fault..so what? A good hearted gesture will go a lot further towards cementing a lifelong relationship with that customer instead of turning your back on them & driving them into the arms of your competition. Over the years I have purchased a number of bikes from several different dealers. 2 were from the local HD dealer & 6 were from the local Honda/Yamaha dealer. In every instance the "foreign" dealer has treated me well. Wish I could say the same for HD. Guess who will be getting my next bike purchase & the purchase after that? | ||
| Odie |
I wish so very much that the bottom would drop out of H-D (I would have to sell my stock first!)just so I could see the employees scattered about town working at Micky-Dees, Sonic, gas stations etc...I guess they all think that they are something special working at "The Harley Dealer" Wow, I'm impressed. Most of them don't even own a freakin' bike and if they do it was shortly after they started working there and got a really good deal on one. Do they think that because they work there that they are affluent now and should act like they make 6 figures a year?!?! I pay more in taxes each year than some of them make. When I was enlisted years ago I bought a '72 650 Triumph Tiger from a Warrant Officer that was retiring. I restored it and made a killing on it (should've kept it). As I was researching the original paint scheme, parts, etc I went to countless Triumph/Norton/BSA shops and had a great time talking to people young and old about motorcycles, the past, Lucas, the Prince of Darkness, when Triumph was going to make a comeback,etc. It was a great experience. It didn't matter what I rode (showed up on my Interceptor most times) what I did for a living, or how much I made each year. Now a days there is more clothing than parts at the Harley Clothes Boutique. I ask for a part for my Wideglide ('83) and get a blank stare most times. It just gets so damn frustrating more and more.....I still love Harleys and I know I'm going to love my Buell. They are Americana; a part of who we are as a Country. A part of a Country I spent 21 years of my life defending. As a retirement gift to myself I bought my 12S. I figured I had it coming. Everything that has happened is starting to get me down.......I'm sick of writing negative things about people; it's not my way. I want to write about how much I'm enjoying my retirement riding my new, finely engineered, well maintained, dealer supported Buell!!!!! Later............. | ||
| Brucelee |
Right on Dyna! |
