| Author |
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Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 09:52 pm: | 
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Strongbad is correct on this one with respect to Buells. With no continual transitions, ECM will assume a nonfunctioning O2 sensor even with a resistor in its place and set a CEL. |
Ridenusa4l
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 10:41 pm: |
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Anon,
Can you shine some light as the the effects on the engine and fuel injuection, if you were to disable the O2 sensors?
MUCH THANKS,
Jake |
Strongbad
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 06, 2010 - 11:59 pm: |
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By unplugging the O2 sensors, you just remove that input from the fuel calculation. The fuel will be determined by the base map plus AT, ET, Baro, and front and rear learned fuel if different than 100. The majority of the load points are not in the closed loop region, so a lot of the time you are not using O2 feedback anyways. The O2 sensors only guarantee that you are running approximately at stoich while in closed loop. With them removed that guarantee is gone. You could be richer, could be leaner, could be right on. You also remove the learning capability, so the open loop region is no longer being modified by the closed loop region. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 03:46 am: |
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Mike,
Posting the work of others absent clear and proper attribution of that work and its source and authorship is unethical; it's called plagiarism. I think most folks who read your opening post would assume that you wrote it. It is a post under your name with nothing to indicate that it is not your own work. That is blatant plagiarism. It would get you tossed out of most universities.
I've noticed that you also have a propensity to name drop in support of your efforts. It rubs me the wrong way. Suggest you get everything on the 100% honest up-and-up, stop the name dropping, stop the plagiarizing, just produce and be 100% honest. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 11:43 am: |
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Jake, no problem. Just read Strongbad's post. 
The base maps for any fuel injection system are just that, base maps. There are subtle differences among any population of engines that mean that the base maps will not be perfect for all engines. For that matter, a single engine will run differently and have different requirements over time (think about differences during break in as an example). O2 sensors give the system a way to compensate for those differences. This is why I said before that any tuner providing a set of maps for a street bike with the O2 sensors disabled shouldn't be. Race is a completely different animal.
BTW, just keep in mind that for an 1125 we're talking about one thing, once you throw XBs in the mix, disabling the O2 sensors completely defeats any methods for altitude compensation.
The first 2 minutes produce 75% of harmful substances, the engine expels in total.
That's not really true. Later in the test is where a huge majority of certain constituents are expelled. |
Highscore
| | Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 03:59 pm: |
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The lambda eliminator or simulator with the two resistors is not my invention, the "tuning industry" created it and made it obligatory for pretty all piggy back fuel controller around (looks like as my own POWERIZER controller is the only exception).
Thousands of them are on the streets and it is a good business - 20$ for a connector with two small resistors inside.
This success for itself gives the proof, that the eliminator works and avoids CEL throwing.
I have read somewhere, Dynojet has sued by CARB for this practice in the case of its Powercommander for a fine of 1000.0000 US$.
I guess I should be out of doubt to advocate this cheap trick,I only tried to explain how this "wonder" may work: with a resistor instead of of a real O2-probe the ECU is just waiting for the probe´s signal, which will never will be sent by the resistor. A "lambda conversion error" is not reported by the ECU, because the ECU needs to sense any tension by the probe to detect the missing conversion.
In this way the function of the eliminator is really ingenious, wouldn´t be there the shortcoming of disabling the trim for ambient conditions by the ECU. This is happens only with an eliminator in place of an O2-probe.
Regarding self-adjustment for production tolerances, different exhausts etc. by stock O2-probes: Sadly this does not happen for two reasons: (1) closed loop is limited to very little engine load and speeds. In this small window an exhaust swap makes no sensible effect. (2) The stock narrow band probes are usually manufactured and "tuned" to work solely around Lambda=1 (or 14,7). There are NB-probes available with a wider sensor range from Lambda 0,8 (=12) up to Lambda 1,6, the stuff installed in emission controlled bikes, is sadly cheaper.
Regarding emissions in the first 2 minutes after cold start: I have done some EURO-III emission tests. This is my first hand experience. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 04:29 pm: |
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The ECM is also waiting for that signal to transition routinely and without that transition, it will set a code.
Having run several EURO traces myself and analyzed mountains of data from them, I can assure you that the end of the test has an enormous impact. |
Highscore
| | Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 06:38 pm: |
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@ Anonymous
Does this mean, the 1125-Ecu cannot be fouled by this simple resistor trick? Good to hear.
I talked here about my experiences from other bikes than Buell, where the "eliminator" is the preferred tool to cure surge.
Regarding emissions: you are right, at the end of the test the "heavy loads" occur, where NOx instead of CO and HC becomes the essential substance of the emissions-cocktail. Here it is necessary to "gamble" and pit CO against NOx. But this works only, if your CO-balance is not maxed out yet by the cold start at the beginning of the test procedure.
(Message edited by Highscore on January 07, 2010) |
Ridenusa4l
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 02:10 am: |
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Anon,
Thanx for the response...at least i wont have to worry AS MUCH if i decide to get it tuned and they end up being disabled 
Thanx
Jake |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 02:56 am: |
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Blake
I feel I clearly stated It was not my work. right after it within a couple post for clarification.
I don't see where you get the name dropping issues.
thanks for a great post highscore/slauter.
Is it wrong to thank someone for nice work of there own that we can all learn from including myself? lets see. answer is: NO :
What I usually see you post is something about someone doing something wrong more than positive.( never anything like "nice find of some good data") your awful quick to point fingers and be so negative.
you have many post of copied text all over this forum, but you call me out even when I posted within a very few post that I copied the text and where it was from. open your eyes dude.
""well it would have been easier to do a link but a lot of people wont go to links so I copied the txt
>never said it was my info just facts.<""
was this not clear enough? geesh someone has issues.
maybe everyone here needs a "works cited" page to there post. LOL
How about annotations also?
talk about petty
It is a Web forum . Home of improper English, typos and ect. If this was a class I was taking, or it was something for an actual publication within an Institution of education,I would have revised and rewritten it. Then posted the authors information and added a work cited page.
I would then set it aside a few days and re-proofed it, re-written it again to make it 100% coherent, logical and accurate to the intended reader, unlike this post.
Back to the fuel stuff and forget the babyish stuff.
mike |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 04:25 am: |
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Now is when the education begins I think... |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 04:50 am: |
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A form of "autotune" with cell by cell, front and rear A/F ratio targets will be the ending solution to shelve all else.
It will utilize front and rear wideband lambda sensors in constant feedback/correction/learning/closed loop mode.
Been used for years in higher end applications and now coming to our little pond married with the stock ecu. Gee!
 ...sucks to work so hard for nothing in return but hey, what else do amateurs got to do? Happy Tuning...er, LEARNING!  |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 06:49 am: |
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Do tell...Else, you're just a tease. |
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