| Author | Message | ||
     Sprintst |
1) update the front suspension to the new style with the external pressure chamber. Sorry, but the BPF is old news now 2) update the electronics. I've said all along that the market expects it. Time for the full Bosch IMU with electronic everything 3) continued development on the engine | ||
| Snacktoast |
1) update the front suspension to the new style with the external pressure chamber. Sorry, but the BPF is old news now 2) update the electronics. I've said all along that the market expects it. Time for the full Bosch IMU with electronic everything 3) continued development on the engine If only you had seen the things that were planned, you'd think they had read your mind...or maybe that they actually were in touch with market demand afterall.  That's all I'm going to say. | ||
| Ljm |
I like what they made, and I can tell you having ridden the high hp, electronic everything bikes, the weakest link is clearly me. That being said, if they push the envelope and build that 230 hp v-twin, abs, electronic traction control, launch control, wheelie control bike, I would buy it. I am old. I'm not dead yet. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I was thinking again about those ~350 1190's languishing at the factory, assuming Hero didn't somehow claim those as part of the "consulting business". I get that even if everything goes perfectly (Bruce wins auction on Dec. 10, the court approves deal Dec. 15 and Bruce turns over a check) they can't ship those bikes to the dealers on Dec. 16, and it may be months before the required government approvals can be obtained, if ever. So, assuming Bruce wins the auction, gets the company, and some time in the first half of 2016 obtains all the government approvals, what do you do with those bikes? By that time, it'll be close to the 2017 model year, so a ~3 year old model is not really going to cut it in the market place. Here are a few thoughts: 1- Ship the bikes as-is with an amazing low MSRP. If you could get a brand-new 2015 1190 for say, $7500 (with full factory warranty), would you buy it? 2- Strip the bikes and use them for parts inventory. 350 complete bikes would provide spare parts for years of support for the 1190 models. 3- Significantly update the bikes (cosmetics, electronics, maybe mechanicals as suggested above) and sell them as 2017 models. They'd serve as early models of new line production built 2017 models. 4- Re-build some of the bikes as AX's. Maybe not the all-new AX that was planned, but the AX a lot of people wanted (a variation on the regular 1190 platform). I understand that whatever's done would have only a tiny effect on EBR's long-term balance sheet, but it's an interesting mental exercise. Thoughts? (Message edited by Hughlysses on November 21, 2015) | ||
| 1313 |
I'm all for academia, and in the matter of fact spirit that Bruce exudes, here are my off the cuff responses. 1. If I didn't still owe twice that on my 2014 1190RX (that only had a full factory warranty for 10 months), I'd jump on it. A black and red SX, however, might just be tempting enough (even with trying to keep a red rear wheel clean on a chain drive bike...). 2. That would be putting a LOT more labor costs into the resulting spare parts, that have already had labor costs put into them to assemble the parts. There might be some legality issues selling parts that have been assembled and removed as 'new', as well. But the concept does have some merit, especially if critical suppliers no longer wish to continue to do business with EBR v 2.1, effectively making this the only way to supply spare parts. 3. 2016 MY bikes and up require ABS for Europe. If that's possible this could be a valid option, although the naysayers will come out of the woodwork - it's still eleventy billion hp down on the competition, the competition has progressed but EBR is still sitting in 2013, etc. Exactly NOT what you want to do to attract market share and new customers. Most of this naysayer sentiment could be negated with proper marketing of why EBR doesn't need to have the most hp, all the latest electronics, etc. 4. This statement will piss a lot of people off, but hell I do what I excel at sometimes... The 1190 RX/SX platform (if as modular as the XB platform was) is NOT the platform that anyone would want for an AX style bike. A lot of you are all gung ho for an 1190AX and - think about this - you've never even ridden an 1190RX or 1190SX. Don't get me wrong, the 1190RX and 1190SX are GREAT bikes for what they are, but the 1190 RX/SX platform is not suited for the basis for an AX style of bike. Sure, with VERY significant changes, an 1190 RX/SX based AX could be made but the resulting cost would bring out the detractors once again. The 1190RX/SX was 'too expensive' as it was and here the AX is XX% more than the RX/SX, what were they thinking? Did they pattern this after the Motus business model? On the other hand, if all the 'bells and whistles' weren't added, it wouldn't fare well in comparisons with competitive models, which would likely be just as disastrous for the brand. Question #4 is actually one good reason why I was/am glad that I did buy an 1190RX. If it were a suitable platform for an AX type bike, I would've been in the process of converting my 1190RX into more of a Sport Touring bike - well before I changed to 'holy crap, with unknown supply of replacement parts, I need to stock up on whatever I believe will keep my RX running as long as possible' mode. Yeah, yeah, we've heard it before. "Sport Touring bikes don't sell." Well, let me say this: Sport Touring bikes sell to REAL riders! I've got over 65,000 miles on my 2008 XB12XT. During the nearly 7 years that I've owned it, (let's not focus on this...) it was in the shop for over a year. I've owned my 2009 1125CR for 6 years now, so essentially the same length of usable time, and I've only put just over 20,000 on it so far. When I ride back home to Wisconsin, which bike do I take? Since I've got the EBR kit to keep my 1125CR's stator alive, I'm no longer gun-shy about riding the 1125CR for long distances, but the XB12XT gets the nod because it's got hard bags to carry my crap and keep it dry. Sorry to have diverted slightly off on a tangent here, but it's your fault - you asked for thoughts... And I've had a lot of thoughts that I just haven't posted to these threads - as I personally believe they only add static to the current EBR situation, but maybe they do allow people a forum to say what's on their minds... - but since you've asked I'm providing my $0.02 Now that I've said my piece: Here's looking for something to celEBRate! 1313 | ||
| Prior |
Brankin, Good rant. I haven't ridden an RX or SX, perhaps next time you're in the area I can take yours for a spin? I'm wishful for a resurrection as well- the part that made Buell and EBR, well, them, was the passion and the people. If the turnaround happens, hope this stays alive. | ||
| Court |
>>>as I personally believe they only add static to the current EBR situation I've said it before . . . . I'll say it again. In the scheme of things the orphaned bikes are a distraction. The legal issues of selling . . . the commercial liability of selling "take off"parts as "new" (some will recall that Dodge (if my memory serves) got sued years ago on that one) and the fact that they are parts/bikes no longer made by a defunct company . . . . . I think the effort, talent and money it would take to generate, deplete and manage an effective solution would fatally detract from where the attention is needed. I also think the "350" number is suspect. I'd wager that there may be something on that order, in terms of the number of "completed" bikes but . . . . I've a sneaking suspicion there are enough parts to build 9 times that many. Suffice to say a couple miscalculations, in concert with finding minimum levels to induce certain vendors to produce, may have resulted in some parts being ordered in HUGE quantities. I could be wrong. There was at least one part that got "held hostage" because the vendor was not the successful bidder on another part and they, then, refused to ship the part they had been contracted for. Be mindful that a motorcycle, with something on the order of 400 parts . . . .can represent 400 personalities, 400 relationships and all the concomitant ego, pride, hard-headedness and normal crap that goes along with buying and selling things. There is a reason that such a large number of the Buell and EBR folks were "purchasing engineers". You can develop a part . . . design it (Brankin) . . .engineer it (Abe) and produce it . . . but until you have purchasing folks (Lars, Dave Gess and Floyd) . . . ain't nutin' happening'. There may . . . . to those with actual facts (I'm guessing . . . in fact, wild ass guesses) be other great options. The one thing I am quite certain of is that there is currently enough talent in play to come up with a great solution. And we all have the best seats in the house to watch as it unfolds. Court | ||
| Mrakz83 |
Court is right-those old 1190s would just be a distraction-worth little more than a "reward for the faithful".... Hey, a guy can dream, right? | ||
| Noone1569 |
I'm with you, mrakz, I would happily take one of the distractions and track the hell out it to keep my 1190rx bit more street friendly | ||
| Sprintst |
Sounds like the NOS could be sold off to someone like American Sportbike and be parted I'd like a Showa BPF for my 1125R, even if I do need to get the new front wheel for it. I'm guessing there are some major parts could cross over. Between replacement parts and upgrades for 1125's, seems like a market | ||
| Mrakz83 |
Now we're talking! | ||
| Malott442 |
If I get a bike to use for stunt riding, I will take some sweeeet videos! | ||
| Steveford |
Yeah, yeah, we've heard it before. "Sport Touring bikes don't sell." Well, let me say this: Sport Touring bikes sell to REAL riders! Yes, they do. I bought the Useless specifically for long distance, two up riding as it had a comfortable seat, optional luggage and it wouldn't be cramped. It was a toss up between that and the 12Ss but the bags, seat and easy shock preload adjustment is what made up my mind. I could care less about the adventure bike look and stuck on the race kit, bags, Lightning front fender, bars, clutch cable and brake line before I ever rode it and couldn't wait to stick on some Michelin Pilots. I hope to have a new (to me) sport tourer in my garage by the New Year. I want something that's big, fast, handsome, handles well, is reliable, has luggage, weather protection and will be good for the passenger. Happy wife, happy life. I'll post pics when the big day arrives. | ||
| 2kx1 |
SuperdukeGT is a sport tourer.It's going to sell well I'm sure. | ||
| Finedaddy1 |
2kx1 - I totally agree. Sport touring will be the next big thing IMO. | ||
| Hughlysses |
SuperdukeGT is a sport tourer. It's going to sell well I'm sure. Well, for practical purposes the Uly was a sports tourer too, especially the XT version. I get what 1313's saying about the 1190 not really being suitable as an ADV bike platform, but I did spend ~15 minutes on an SX test ride last summer and I was really surprised at how tractable it was- noticeably better than my 1125CR in that regard, and at least one Badwebber built a sport tourer out of an 1125. Of course, we (at least most of us) don't have a clue what the AX would have looked like but EBR started out saying it would be based on the RX/SX platform and later changed to say it would be an all-new bike. Could you slap a different tail section seat and fairing on an 1190 and have a decent pseudo-ADV bike/sport tourer? Maybe. Some milder cams and different gearing might be in order. The major shortcoming I think would be fuel range, and that'd be hard to fix without major surgery. | ||
| Court |
I, and I chalk much it up to my advancing years, find the Ulysses to be a great starting point....in terms of power delivery....seat room .....handling.....ride height and luggage capacity. The lights on the stock Ulysses are a joke .... But options (although to date I'm still not satisfied) abound. | ||
| Ponti1 |
The lights on the stock Ulysses are a joke .... But options (although to date I'm still not satisfied) abound. Court, HID replacement bulbs from somewhere like DDM Tuning not satisfactory? I know they made an enormous difference on my 1125R. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I have a DDM 4300K 35W low beam in my Uly. Fact is...the optics suck. Go as bright as you want...if the optics don't focus the light properly, they're still not worth a shit. I have the same low beam in my CR - mildly better, but not much. The biggest (and most easily remedied, from a production standpoint) issue with the headlights is, you cannot focus the low beam and high beam independently. If I could bring my low beam up a bit more, without sending the high beam into the treetops...it could be better. On my CR, there is a visible dark gap between high and low beam patterns. The Uly doesn't have the gap...but has the low-is-too-much-lower-than-high problem. Separate housings? Would solve it. That said - my Uly has PIAA 35W amber projectors mounted where the turn signals used to be (I run 1125CR mirrors), toggled with the high beam. I have, sitting in a box waiting for me to get off my ass, a pair of H7 LED's rated at 4500 lumens per bulb. I plan to use them in the high beams of both bikes (Uly and CR) - we'll see how they do. As far as an AX...it needs to be an all-new bike. Spend some time on the Dirty forum - the Uly, while a great motorcycle (I love my 06 to death), is a sport bike trying to get dirty. You'll see the complaints in the forum - 17" front wheel doesn't have decent dirt tire options...not enough low end torque...gearing too tall to crawl through mud...suspension not "dirt bike plush"...heat...not enough farkles (aux lights, power ports, stock GPS, adjustable suspensions, ABS, adjustable power settings, etc)...not enough control adjustments (seat, pegs, levers, bars, etc). I can't decide if I'd like to see a new S2...or an AX. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
In my advancing years, and boy are they advancing, I do not think a 150+ H.P. "sport bike" with great handling is a good platform for much else then just that. I have been and still are a true Buell/EBR fan and rooting for Erik & Bruce. Now I have completely enjoyed my M2 & my 1125R for what they are and I have ridden like I'm 40 through these canyons of Utah with my son on his SV1000. Still we rarely ever saw speeds above 120 or so staying safe always. And I must say the acceleration was something to behold and that rush was incredible. And now if I wanted a sport touring or an ADV bike I would prefer something with good fuel mileage, was very comfortable for the long haul and could carry quite a bit. If I could I would prefer something very much like my old 1977 BMW R100RS. There are many out there to be had, and all will cruise comfortably at 80+, but I do not think a V-twin is really as smooth as many others for that purpose especially a made over "sport bike". So let the flames begin, especially from the HD crowd. AND I still like the BMW boxers for these reasons. Just the take from a senior motorcyclist. This one comes real close as a touring bike. For an ADV bike maybe something a little smaller.  (Message edited by Bob_thompson on November 23, 2015) | ||
| Jaimec |
I was thinking more along the lines of the F800GT:  Put a set of hard bags on that and you're ready to go. Belt drive (instead of a shaft) and a LOT less weight than the R1200RT, too. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Jamie, one of the gals that used to ride with us and had an 1125R went with one of those for her ADV biking and has been well pleased as far as I know. That was what I meant by a little smaller bike. Still a little big for my stature but just fine for most. And I might add the ADV biking has really taken off big time all over the country. Some of those nicer gravel roads are really calling out there! | ||
| Sprintst |
I swear anyone that could do a great sportbike for those of short stature would have a hell of a market. It may not be huge, but I meet riders all the time that struggle with not fitting a bike, having to lower a bike, etc..... Disclaimer - I'm 6'5", so no dog in this fight  | ||
| Steveford |
That is too true; when I was doing sales there were more people trying to move up from a Blast onto the Lightning Low and they just couldn't reach so they ended up with a Harley. | ||
| Mrakz83 |
my 5'3" wife complains all the time about how she wishes she could ride the Uly. She'd love to have a sport touring bike that she could reach the ground on. | ||
| Jaimec |
I've got short friends who ride tall bikes all the time. It's all a matter of getting comfortable with it. Problem with lowering a bike is you generally **** up the handling in the process. Most people just give up in the showroom which is sad. I never understood why people prioritize the 1% of the time their feet are on the ground over the 99% of the time their feet are on the pegs... | ||
| Bob_thompson |
"I never understood why people prioritize the 1% of the time their feet are on the ground over the 99% of the time their feet are on the pegs...: I totally agree Jamie and at 5'6" I have completely adapted to all my street bikes easily especially my M2 and the 1125R but....riding in any dirt, gravel or off road as could be with an ADV bike means quite often you'll have to dab a foot down to maintain control or have a possible bad experience. Dirt bikes crash fairly well, not so much others. I have ridden many really high enduro or motorcross high bikes with not much effort by being "up" on the pegs most of the time but starting and stopping is a real hassle for me. HA! | ||
| Jaimec |
I remember looking at a modern 250 MXer and wondering where the accessory staircase to get into the saddle was stored... | ||
| Sprintst |
Well, it seems simple to me to lean the bike, but I've never experienced it........ Folks seem to want to flat foot for perceived safety = comfort Hence, anyone that could develop a short bike, that has great ground clearance and handling, would OWN that market | ||
| Ratbuell |
Electro-hydraulic suspension. Below 5mph, lower it. Above 5mph, go to "ride height". Similar to the air-over-hydraulic system in my Grand Cherokee - "enter/exit", "aero", "Normal ride height", "off-road 1", "off-road 2". Added bonus? Rides like a DREAM. When it's implemented, you may send my royalty checks (and beta-test motorcycle) to 14216 McAfee.....  |
