| Author | Message | ||
     Hoover_uly |
Hello All, I am a newbie and I could use some advice in adjusting my suspension. I've used the owners manual settings for my 2009 XP (without police equipment)and it just doesn't feel correct. It seems unnecessarily harsh and frankly, a little dangerous. If I hit any kind of a bump in a corner or even entering my driveway, the bike seems to bounce back and attempts to right itself to upright which is not something you need in a corner. I've done a little experimenting and find that if I reduce the front and rear preload and compression dampening and increase the rebound dampening the tendency to bounce upright is lessened. Is this a typical result using the factory basic settings or am I doing something stupid? I don't anticipate having a passenger, eventually I would like some luggage and currently, with gear, probably hit about 215 - 220 pounds. I want to ride comfortably and enjoy the bike to my potential but I don't anticipate that I will ever ride to the bike's potential. Thanks for any support. I have found an lot of great info on this site but couldn't find anything for this particular issue. | ||
| Luftkoph |
Did it come with an owners manual? | ||
| Hoover_uly |
Yes, in fact, I just found the section on tuning the suspension. I had only been using the matrix previously. Going to take a screwdriver and go for a ride. Any tips still appreciated | ||
| Froggy |
It sounds like you will want more rebound dampening. Also be advised, during winter, the fluids react slower due to the cold and as result you will need to run your settings overall on the softer side. Before you play with the suspension anymore, make sure you have proper tire pressure. | ||
| Tootal |
I'm with you Hoover, mine has always seemed harsh. In fact I kept tuning on the front and realized I was backed out all the way on both screws. It's not bad there and I have to say that I'm basically setting it up for commuting which is how it's used the most. Next fork oil change I'm going to try some thinner fork oil. Amsoil makes a 5wt. fork oil that isn't affected by temperature as much as regular oil. Harley "E" oil is a 7wt. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Make ONE change at a time, and keep good notes so you know what your settings end up being. Does your XP have bags? It should...only the topcase was part of the emergency "package". On my 06 UlyX, I run right on the book's settings, plus a little preload in the rear because I have all three bags. On my 09 1125CR, I run by the chart...two weight ranges lighter than I actually am. That bike is harsh, running it as if I was a lighter rider makes it very capable. I'd start there - go one full weight range lighter, and see how it feels. At least that way, your comp/reb/pre settings will be "balanced" front to rear. Then make one change at a time, until you find a setting you like. And of course, since you had a pen and pad along with your screwdriver..you'll know exactly what those settings are for future reference  | ||
| Beached |
Ratbuell, I wish you wrote that several years ago. Its taken me that long to get everything adjusted so it feels right. I have found the now my my rebound and damping seem to be right, I can fine tune using the preload only. Any idea why the preload suddenly becomes the fine tune adjustment only after the the other two are dialed in correctly? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Because compression and rebound affect "harshness" versus "floating"...and spring preload is strictly for weight carrying. Set the harshness properly for your preferences, and the hard part is done. The bike will handle and ride the way you want. Then, as you add weight (cargo, passenger), you make one adjustment to compensate for the weight and the rest of the parameters stay in line for you. I took about six months to get my Uly set where I wanted it. Then...I swapped in '07 progressive rate fork springs and started again. Now, though...the ONLY adjustment I have to touch is the rear preload adjuster handle. No tools required. And I have all my settings written in my owners manual (I use the 07 chart as a baseline now), for when I rebuild the forks. That way I can put it right back. For the OP - if your XP does NOT have the bags...use the chart for the UlyX. Same bike, but with a bag delete. IIRC they're both in the manual - should have a chart for X, one for XP, and one for XT. Either that, or there's a footnote for a conversion from X to XP. But either way, basically an XP is an X with bags, so adjust accordingly. | ||
| Busykat |
I'm running my XB12XP with firmer settings than what's specified; I'm using the settings for the next higher weight category. When I first picked up my '09 Uly, it felt much less stable than what I had experienced on my '06 Uly. I discovered that the preload on the front was low by 1 whole turn from recommended. You may find that you need to go firmer than what you think you need to in order to get the bike to feel right for you. | ||
| Desert_bird |
Rebound adjustment has nothing to do with your compression (squeezing) stroke. It only slows down the return or expansion (the rebound) of your fork to original position. Your experience is consistent with this: Increased rebound will slow the rate of expansion of the shock, as you write 'damping tendency to bounce upright.' You will feel a little 'floaty' if that wheel doesn't return down and out quickly to keep in contact with the riding surface after a bump. The combination of too much rebound and a quick succession of bumps can have the front end begin to lose composure as the shock compresses, bike dives forward and front end squeezed down (not necessarily in that order) faster than it can return to original position. Front starts to take a squat. The rebound adjustment screw on the front fork is located within the preload nut, and rotates the same amount when the preload is adjusted. So when adjusting your front forks, make sure that you first adjust preload to where you want it, then adjust the rebound (by turning all the way in to maximum then backing out) to the correct amount. I find the best way to have the suspension really dialed in is that on every subsequent preload adjustment up front, to follow up by this by complete re-tuning of the the rebound screw to bring to spec. | ||
| Hoover_uly |
Thank you all for your sharing your experience. I adjusted in more rebound dampening front and rear with the factory recommended preload and compression dampening for the X since my XP has no luggage or emergency equipment. It made a significant improvement but I'm sure it can be further improved. Based on the info provided above, I'm going to first try softer preload settings and attempt to dial in the dampening. Definitely will start to write down the settings..... I guess what bugs me is that the factory recommended settings seem so far off for the rebound dampening. The bike has less than 3,000 miles so it seems unlikely something is worn out. With some better riding weather I hope to have this sorted out soon and will report back. Thanks again to all. | ||
| Ourdee |
Listen to the Rat. I run a click or two light on the preload. I like it like that. But I ride mellow on the street, most of the time.  | ||
| Chorizo |
Overall my 06 handles great. The only problem I have is when hitting long dips bike wants to bottom out (dont know why its fine on bumps). Feels like I squish it for a second and then a mild stink bug (bounce) on the rebound. Nothing scary so when I see it coming I stand up and use my legs as I would riding a dirt bike. Sorry about the 2nd grade vocabulary. Any ideas? | ||
| Uly_man |
I found the 06 and 2010 suspension to be much the same even though the 2010 bike has bigger forks. You ALWAYS set the pre-loads/sag and tyre pressures first with a bike before anything else. Set everything else for now, as per Buell book as a base line. I found the 2010 book ok but the 06 book to be a little out. Set the pre-loads (to start with) so that the front drops the same as the rear with you on the bike. This is VERY important as it will, amongst other things either increase or decrease the fork angle. It needs to be as per spec to start with. Tips on Uly suspension setup I have found but much the same with any bike - 1) Re check tyre temps with cold rubber before any re-tuning of suspension. As little as 2 PSI will "throw off" your set up. 2) Do not adjust rebound and compression more than half a turn at a time. 3) As said re-set the front (top of forks) rebound once the pre-load is done. 4) The front forks do not need lighter oil. I added 10ml of heavy oil to each fork on both my bikes and it made a world of difference. Less dive under braking, better feed back and control on all types of road. Its a known issue/mod. The suspension on a Uly is quite superb. A good setup, rubber and rider will out handle anything on Tarmac but a bad one will make it feel bad. This bike can be setup for cruising, very hard sports riding, commuting or a balance of all and still work great. And it does no go bad by 10k miles like most Jap stuff. A Prime Rib bike for Big Mac money. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
There are a fair number of good suspension tuning articles online. The Race Tech site has a particularly good set up guide. Preload is not really for tuning ride quality. Preload is used to set where the bike rides in its suspension travel. If preload is set too low, the ride will seem soft but will be harsh over bumps because you will encounter the bottom end of the suspension's movement. If preload is set too high, ride will seem hard because you have set the bike up to carry more load than you've put on board. Sort of like driving a one-ton pickup without any cargo. High preload will also bring on harshness because you will be riding too close to the top end of the suspension's travel. Ideally, with preload set correctly, you will find that the bike sits (fully loaded) with the suspension about 30% compressed. The table in the owner's manual recommends preload settings for intended load. They are pretty accurate if you are using the intended springs. If you have changed a pre-08 bike to later springs (even if you have not changed the fork) use the preload settings for '08 and later machines. Once preload is set appropriately, you can begin to tune compression and rebound damping. The adjusters act differently. Motorcycles use little compression damping and it adjusts over a small range. There is not a lot of difference from none to full. Rebound is opposite, there is a great deal of noticeable change. To get an idea of what goes on, it is useful to have an idea of how the adjusters affect ride. Set the adjusters to the spec setting and go out and find a short loop to ride, 5 minutes or so will do. Some twists, moderate bumps, maybe some rolling crests. Run the loop on the standard setting to establish a baseline for ride feel. Now, open the compression adjusters all the way so that compression is to minimal damping (fast). Ride the loop again. Note changes. If you have time. Do the front and rear on separate runs. Now, turn the compression adjusters in all the way (slow) so that you have maximum damping. Test again. If everything is working, and your test loop is good, you will notice some change. Not a lot, but noticeable. Now set compression to spec and run the tests again while changing only rebound damping. This will cause very pronounced effects. With the rebound adjusters unscrewed (fast) yielding near zero rebound damping, the bike will feel very loose and maybe even a little out of control. Screw the adjusters in to full rebound and the ride should get very plush on smooth surfaces but will be harsh over bumps. After you have a good idea of the affects caused by the different available settings, it is much easier to sort things out. | ||
| Motorbike |
Mark weiss, very well written! I am no suspension expert (not an expert at anything, for that matter) but I now feel like I could go out and dial it in perfectly, using your explanation. I have been running mine set to the owners manual recommendation and it seems real good but maybe I will be more aware of the details next time I ride. Thanks for writing. | ||
| Uly_man |
Yeah. Whatever. | ||
| Motorbike |
Uly man, just because I made the mistake of singling out one person's advice does not mean that your advice, or anyone else's is not good. There is tons of good info in this whole thread, yours included. It is obvious you know these bikes very well and your advice is appreciated too. I wasn't trying to piss you off, sorry about that. I'll try to be more careful. Thanks. | ||
| Chorizo |
Explained very well thanks. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Preload may also be used a bit to fine tune handling. It is important not to go too far though because adjusting more than a few turns will take the suspension (at the end you are fiddling with) out of its ideal range. If you want to make the bike less sensitive to steering the rear can be lowered, relative to the front. This may be done by reducing rear preload, increasing front, or a combination of the two. As noted, do not go to far, no more than one "weight class" by the owner's manual table. This adjustment makes the steering less sensitive, possibly desirable for long distance interstate riding. Maybe on soft surfaces too. Be aware that the cost will be in slower handling and increased steering pressure to initiate and maintain a turn. More sensitivity is gained by going the opposite direction. Drop the front, raise the rear, maybe both. More sensitivity may be useful for enhanced maneuverability in heavy traffic and for trackdays and twisty road. This adjustment makes the bike less stable. Large bumps and ruts will have a greater effect on the bike's path. Preload should not be used to try to make up for having the wrong springs. If your loaded weight results in running at (or off) the end of the tuning chart you should really change springs. Preload is meant to set the chassis so that most riding conditions work the suspension through the middle 1/3 of travel. Fully loaded, the best preload setting will allow the springs to hold the bike at the top of the middle 1/3 of the suspension's travel. This way, most bumps will move the fork or shock through the middle 1/3 of travel and will produce the best results. | ||
| Uly_man |
Motorbike. Sorry that was not the case at all. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Damping adjustments are meant to damp spring movement by controlling the speed at which the suspension is able to move. Compression damping controls how quickly the wheel is able to move upward, absorbing a bump. Rebound (sometimes Tension) controls how rapidly the wheel is able to drop back to stay in contact with the road. Both damping directions work together to smooth the suspension's response and keep the springs under control. On either side, too much damping (the adjuster is closed too far) is often referred to as "Slow". The wheel is not being allowed to move rapidly enough to absorb bumps. Too little damping (the adjuster is open too far) is often called "Fast". The wheel moves to quickly and is somewhat out of control. It can be time consuming to sort things out. Compression controls wheel movement when a bump is encountered. Too little compression damping and the tire may move so quickly (too Fast) that it is bounced off of the ground. Too little compression damping is rarely an issue for road riding. Too much compression damping and the wheel cannot move quickly enough (too Slow), thereby transferring excessive shock to the frame. If you hit an "average" bump and you feel significant upward shock through the handlebar or seat, compression is likely too high. Rebound damping has more notable effect. If the above mentioned "average" bump has a harsh finish, you need to deal with rebound. If the bike comes off of the bump and drops harshly back to the regular surface, it is likely that you have too much rebound damping causing the rear wheel to not be able to return quickly enough (too Slow) to remain in firm contact with the road. The result is the feeling that the bike "drops" after a bump. In extreme cases, over rippled surfaces, the bike will actually "pack down" with the suspension not fully returning after each bump. If the bike finishes the bump harshly, sometimes with an audible "clack" but does not yield the dropping feeling, there is likely too little rebound. The wheel returns so rapidly (too Fast) that the bike is not allowed to settle after the bump finishes. Slow rebound (more damping) generally yields more plushness and is frequently preferred for road riding. Fast rebound (less damping) usually makes the bike feel loose and is better for the track. When tuning a bike, I like to start at the factory settings and work from there. If I don't have factory settings, I will start with the adjusters in the middle. How far I turn the screws each time depends on the total range. If an adjuster has six turns of range, I'll go with one half turn at a time. For a sixteen turn adjuster, I will make much larger changes. I work on compression first, running the test loop and increasing damping until things start to get harsh. From that point, I will back off a few clicks (or quarter turns). For rebound I work a bit differently. I will run the loop and slow rebound (increase damping) until the bike starts to finish bumps poorly. I start to notice the "drop" feeling. I'll then reduce rebound, allowing the suspension to extend more rapidly, until the bike feels loose. From there, I will compare the two settings, divide the difference by three, and return to a point that is about 2/3 toward the looser end. That gives me a good baseline from which to fine tune. I find that I almost never change compression settings. Keep in mind that terms such as "harsh" and "plush", etc. are somewhat subjective. | ||
| Uly_man |
Good advise Mark but I think both you and I may have been a little to subtle. Many riders do not get the best ride from even basic suspension for many reasons. The main one is fear, from what I have found due to a lack of understanding of there machine. It takes time, effort, thought and road miles to understand this. Many just "ride around" the problem and thats a shame. As I have said many times this bikes suspension is superb for a road bike. The fully adjustable suspension is easy to screw up and if your not used to a bike with this and with a fork angle close to race type you may have a problem. It needs to be known/said that this bike has close to a sports bike frame/suspension and should be treated as such. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Uly_man, By FAR the best standard suspension on a production bike that I have ever encountered. There is a reason that this forum is probably the only motorcycle forum on the web where better suspension is not discussed as regularly as tires or oil. Actually, I cannot recall seeing anyone ever post an inquiry about better forks or a better shock. My Ulysses is the only bike that I have ever had on which I retained the stock suspension. Even the discussions regarding changing pre-'08 forks seems to by only about geometry change, not about ride improvement. (Message edited by Mark_weiss on January 11, 2012) | ||
| Ratbuell |
The biggest change was '07, where they went from the '06's single-rate fork springs to a progressive-rate spring. I never had an "issue" with the '06 setup..but the springs were so cheap that I did the swap at my 10k service since the forks were off/apart anyway. Wow. But, you're right. Very few comments about "what's a better component?" - all seem to be focused on "how do I set this up?". Almost as if the Buell engineers knew what they were doing... | ||
| Brucespoint |
 That They Did. Though I'd like to hear a bit more about raising oil levels. Bottomed a time or two on the NWO rally this year... one fork seal leaking a bit. Flat Amazed how Well it did!  They Nailed it. b. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Adjusting the oil level is like using a progressive spring. The air space above the oil acts as an air-spring for the suspension. In the normal range of movement the air exerts little force and has little effect on movement. When the airspace is considerably reduced, the progressive nature of air pressure causes a rapid rise in internal pressure. Hence, a progressive spring. Decreasing air volume can lessen bottoming of the forks. This can help on big bumps and also during braking. Add equal amounts to both sides, 15cc at a time should be OK. I have never measured the space, but it is probably safe to add up to about 45cc of oil before blowing seals becomes a big concern. If more bottoming resistance is needed, I'd make the change with an anti-bottoming spring. | ||
| Ourdee |
I have a tight right hander with a double set of train tracks in it on my way to work. With the best of settings I still have to lift myself from the seat with the balls of my feet on the pegs with a light application of throttle through it. | ||
| Hoover_uly |
Hello All, Yesterday, I had an opportunity to apply the excellent advice posted here. With just a few tweaks, I've already realized a huge improvement. The bike's tendency to bounce upright in corner is gone but a little instability remains. I was surprised by how sensitive the suspension is to the various adjustments. 1/8 of a turn can make a big difference and I assume before I'm finished, I'll be making much finer adjustments than that. I was also surprised by the fact I could realize a difference within a few hundred feet without even getting to speed or trying a corner. This would be much easier there was some kind of indexing decal around each screw... I started by moving down one weight rating for preload and added back some compression and rebound. Works for me! Thanks again!! | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Some suspension units have "clicks", there's a spring loaded detent that you can feel index as you turn the adjusting screw (usually three or four clicks per turn). Hence the often used term of "clickers". Clickers are REALLY nice when you cannot readily see the adjuster. In general, "tightening" an adjuster restricts oil flow and gives you more (tighter) damping. This slows movement. For forks, the rebound adjuster is generally at the top and compression is at the bottom. Some of the latest forks have both adjusters on top. This makes access easier and also makes it easier to turn the wrong screw. Rear suspension units usually have rebound at the bottom and compression at the top, or compression may be at the remote reservoir. You'll also read about low-speed damping and high-speed damping. This refers to the speed of suspension movement, not vehicle speed. High-speed damping is used for bumps. Quick impacts to the suspension. This is the type of damping adjustment that is most common, and what we have on the Ulysses. Low speed damping is used more to control chassis movement to improve grip. Weight transfer to the rear under acceleration or forward under braking are examples of low-speed movements. The shock separates the two through use of some sort of "blow off valve". During low speed suspension change the valve stays closed and all of the damping is done by the low-speed circuit. When a bump or hole is encountered, creating fast wheel movement, suspension fluid cannot move through the low-speed circuit quickly enough and the "blow-off" opens allowing fluid to flow through the high-speed circuit as well. When reading about suspension units, single adjustable will generally have a rebound adjuster, two-way (or double) adjustable will have both compression and rebound adjusters. Three-way will have single adjustable rebound, along with low and high speed compression adjusters. Extremely sophisticated shocks will have Mid Valving. This allows you to fine tune suspension movement in the middle 1/3 of travel without affecting the regular tuning at either end. For street riding, there's really very, very, little advantage to be gained from going beyond a two-way shock. |
