| Author | Message | ||
     Jim_sb |
Howdy Gents, 2006 Ulysses, 16k miles since new, one owner (me), ECM Spy V. 1.12.1 and cable, stock bike. Always run on 91 octane from Shell, Texaco, Chevron, etc. Rider comfort kit added 3 months ago for additional cylinder cooling. My bike has pinged during roll on throttle in the 3200 - 4500 rpm range since new. Not during steady cruising in that range. Asked my local Buell dealer to perform a static timing check and they refused - said the bike was fine. Said they could not hear the pinging. So I rode it as is until yesterday. Finally decided to get serious about the problem and attempt repairs myself. 1. Performed static timing check. For the LIFE of me I could not get the static timing mark EVER to show up in the window anywhere near the 5 volt indication from the Cam Position Censor (CPS) as shown on ECM Spy diagnostics page. I could get it to show up nearly spot on with a ZERO indication from the CPS sensor (presumably meaning #2 cylinder is firing?). Questions: Are we supposed to be setting this for the front or rear cylinder? Stupid follow up - how do I know? I rotate the rear tire with the bike in 5th and it feels as if there are 2 closely spaced compression strokes followed by no compression for awhile. Duh. So which compression stroke am I after here? Obviously I am doing something wrong... 2. TPS Reset - the ECM Spy manual says 4.6 degrees whereas my Buell FSM says 5.2 - 5.6 degrees for the TPS reset. I used 5.3 degrees (when in doubt, trust the FSM?). Is that correct? 3. After giving up on the static timing check, and being frustrated with the pinging I drilled out the timing cover, put Sharpie marks on the adjustable timing plate and manually retarded the timing 2 tick marks (2 degrees?). Counterclockwise. I then went for a test ride. Pinging was completely GONE. I absolutely could not get the bike to ping - no matter what gear or speed. Snap the throttle wide open and the bike would accelerate. BUT - I feel like some power has been lost in the process... I'm happy the pinging is gone, but she sure doesn't seem to pull as hard. So - what's the trick here? Slowly advance timing 1 degree at a time until pinging returns then back off a tiny bit and call it good? Maybe if I had some type of clue on the static timing (I don't, because as noted above, I could never get the timing mark in the window anywhere when the CPS was on 5 volts). I'm open to suggestions. PS. Froggy said "Race ECM" and I sent an email to Erik Buell Racing but have not heard back from them yet. I don't mind the $250 if it resolves the issues but I feel a bit frustrated by the static timing issue. It shouldn't be this hard. I must be doing something wrong. Constructive suggestions? | ||
| Towpro |
Do the TPS reset correct (as in your other thread), then reset the AFV to 100%, then take it for a long ride and see if it don't run like a new bike. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Okay. I did a TPS reset to 5.3 degrees on Sunday. I'll reset the AFV and ride it and see what happens. I did note that the previous AFV was around 109% for what that's worth. | ||
| Motorfish |
I have an `06, and recently retarded the timing back one tick mark. No more pinging, and it seems to run really great. I may have lost a little power, but I have not rode it really hard yet. If I lost a pinch of power, to me it`s worth it not to have it ping. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I also have an '06, recently returned to stock exhaust and ECM (used to run an accessory Race ECM and a Drummer). 13k miles, also one-owner, also with comfort kit ducting, and I have a K&N filter and '07-style inner airbox. It *might* have been pinging all the time...but until I put the stock can back on, I couldn't tell. I installed an Erik Buell Racing ECM with the rest of the bike as-is, to see if the advance curve would be different enough..but I still got a slight ping (the ECM made it SUPERFREAKINSMOOTH and was/is worth every cent! but it still pinged a bit), especially 2-up at wide throttle openings and low RPMs. Pulled the timing cover, retarded it one tic-mark. Runs like a raped ape..and no ping. No matter what. 1800rpm, 2-up, full-hot engine, three full bags, WOT...and no ping, no complaint. If you're losing power...split the difference and advance it halfway back to where it was, and see how it goes. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Thanks gents. This sounds like a good plan. Get the Erik Buell Racing ECM for a stock Ulysses, play with the timing in small increments. Probably advance it until she pings then dial it back a tad and call it good. BTW how is your fuel economy? I've been getting about 47mpg while flogging the bike since new. Recently added the Zero Grav sport touring wind screen and mileage jumped to around 50 mpg. Curious to see what effect the race ECM has. ? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Well... my mileage sucks compared to yours, but it has before and after the ECM swap with no noticable change since I got the new ECM from Michael. I'm low 40s, three bags (changed the top Journey bag to a 50L HB Junior), CeeBailey windscreen, and a "less than gentle" right hand  That said...at Buelltoberfest last year (old race ECM and Drummer) I was low 50's, so it could very well be my riding conditions here. | ||
| Riding_tall |
Another advantage to retarding the timing is you can run 87 octane, at least for commuting, I still do 91 for long 2up and/or harder riding. Dang it, I just replaced the ECM a few months ago. I'm not doing it again. Well at least I found a good deal on the original 06 ECM | ||
| Ratbuell |
Oh, I kept my OEM. Sent my P&A "race" unit in to have it reflashed. It's like magic - I get all the smoothness of the race box, PLUS muffler valve control. Exquisite. | ||
| Etennuly |
Let us know if you retard the timing, if it affects your steady slab cruising ability. See if you get a cel red light, possibly into flashing, or beyond that, a run/skip situation. I am about to advance mine for the sake of running cooler. It is an '06 that no matter what, it has never even come close to pinging. But at steady state cruising at 70 mph it will go into FL/Run/Skip. Too much timing retard will cause a heat increase. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Vern - have you checked (I think we talked about this) your cylinder temp sensor? I still think it might be out of range...retarded timing (in either the engine or, in my case, the rider) shouldn't cause an overheat condition. And FWIW my part throttle cruise is rock steady. I have yet to ride it with the TPS reset (was waiting for my cable) but with a TPS that was out by a couple degrees, it was still happy as a clam with the timing plate retarded one notch. Maybe I'll datalog my temp readings for you...I think ECMSpy can do that, yes? | ||
| Etennuly |
Ecm spy.....yes. I need a driver that will run the cable. Windows won't open the one that was sent to me and the program I down loaded to open that cannot be opened by windows. I hate dealing with computers in this respect. New ETS. Retarded timing can cause high head temps as much as advanced timing can cause pinging. | ||
| Froggy |
Hey Vern, I'll get ECMspy working for you, I just need you to check my timing, I can't figure out how that works. Damn ancient piece of rubbish with manual timing! | ||
| Etennuly |
Froggy, You have a deal! Do you have a link to a driver that will allow my 'puter to link to the bike?  ECM Spy wants to know. I'm tired of reading that Windows(XP) cannot read that file. I grew up with dinosaurs, I can tune them without the help of the electronic gobblety-goop. Damn 'puter stands between me and gettin' 'er done. I'm about to toss this crap and put my timing light pick-up on #1 plug wire to find 'home'.  It is so funny that my youngest son bought a '76 4x4 Chev pickup a few weeks ago. He and a buddy worked the past couple of evenings swapping engines. After they made several attempts to start it, I walked over to it, straightened out the firing order, reset the distributor in the cam gear, had him crank it up. I set the timing, all in about five minutes. It was so funny when they both stood back and said "wow! We spent hours with information from the internet, and could not get it right". Hell, I gave him the service manual on the truck, the poor little shits cannot read if it isn't on a lighted screen.  | ||
| Volume_eight |
lol Vern thats funny. The lighted screen bit... | ||
| Sanchez |
Each tick on the CPS is 5 degrees of timing, so two ticks back is a lot. Try it at one tick, and you'll be happy. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Gentlemen, Lots of great info., THANK YOU. I'll try to get on some of these tasks this weekend, I would still like to get in touch with someone at Erik Buell Racing so I can order the proper race ECM for my stock 2006 Uly with stock muffler in place. Can't find their phone number yet. Thanks again for all the help. PS. I've got the original Hepco-Becker cases on the bike (although unless I'm traveling I only use the trunk). I've been very happy with them. I am VERY excited about finally getting my Ulysses fully "sorted". My 2 ongoing complaints with the bike have been 1) the pinging and 2) the suspension's inability to deal with sand/gravel when 4" deep or more and it's harshness on stutter bumps. Once I sort out the pinging (I feel I'm close now) I think I can sort the suspension with some aftermarket tuning (for the stutter bumps) and a steering damper to help in sand/gravel. Now if I could only figure out how to make a rear tire last! I'm on my 6th rear tire now (have used up 3 D616's and 2 Syncs) in 16,000 miles. Trying a Dunlop Roadsmart now... I think it's a right wrist thing.... | ||
| Froggy |
Vern, funny you say that, I to this day cannot figure out how a carb works and all that other old tech stuff. I recently bought an electronic programmable torque wrench because I couldn't figure out how a clicking one works. I always hated helping my dad at his shop, I got stuck resetting the oil change light on a Porche SUV that was stuck speaking German, yet I had to have him change the windshield wipers on a 70's Eldorado. I was dumbfounded when I found out my Blast's auto choke works by melting wax. I was talking to Spiderman about it, and he asked how else would it be done, so I replied "I don't know, I would use an engine temperature sensor to see how hot the engine is, then if its below a certain threshold it would activate an enrichment circuit which will add a specific amount of extra fuel, and also increase the steps on a idle air control motor to allow for a slightly higher idle and speed up warmup." I later asked if the Blast had a Bank Angle Sensor, as I figured instead of the same BAS the XB has, the Blast would have some kind of sundial that uses voodoo to cut the engine when the sunlight disappears off it in a tipover.
You won't. They have one, but its ringing off the hook as they are dealing with customers buying $30k bikes. Erik Buell Racing is a team of only a couple guys and they would rather you email them. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/562539.html?1273263587
I went through one (1) set of Scorpion Syncs in 15k miles  | ||
| Froggy |
Unfortunately there isn't much you can do for the sand, it is a weakness of the small 17" front wheel. You can put in 2007 Uly springs in your forks ($40) next time you do the fluid change, they have a progressive spring rate and are much better overall than the 06 ones. | ||
| Jim_sb |
Froggy, My Uly's problem in sand (say 4" or more deep) is it will literally go into "tank slapper" mode. I believe a steering damper, properly adjusted, can greatly reduce that. If you haven't experienced the tank slapper - I had a couple of real eye openers at 35 mph or so in Death Valley - it will get your full and undivided attention. I guess I'd be surprised if the damper didn't help control that somewhat. 15k miles on a set of Syncs? Are you riding on grass? | ||
| Jim_sb |
PS. Sent another email to Erik Buell Racing. Told them I was ready to buy one if they could send me a race ECM that works with my stock muffler. | ||
| Etennuly |
Jim, Froggy weighs 62 pounds in full gear and always rides with the wind at his command, the engine switch to off, and a sail on his back. He will get 95 mpg out of a Uly before anyone else does. Since there is no acceleration force on the rear tires, and he removed the brakes for less drag, you can see where his great mileage on fuel and tires comes from. It is a tad embarrassing to watch him tac in traffic when the winds are not favorable.  |
