| Author | Message | ||
     Jlnance |
Given all the discussions going on in other threads about the mag article about a Buell with a V-Rod motor, I want to ask this question. Would it be a good thing? I try and figure that out, but a couple of things get in the way. The fist is that Buells currently run air cooled engines. They take a lot of flack for this and they have a lot of arguments as to why air cooled engines are good. It's always hard to tell if arguments like this are made because they are fundamentally true, or if it is to justify the way things are. Would the tune change if there was a Buell with a water cooled engine? The other is that there are a lot of people who really really want a water cooled engine. I'm not sure if they know something I don't or they just like the idea of water. But exactly why a water cooled engine would be better is often left out of these arguments. It's just assumed. And that makes me skeptical. I find you usually get better results if you specify your requirements as "how something should perform" rather than "how something should be constructed." My own feelings are that I enjoy not having to worry about a radiator or antifreeze. I enjoy not having to adjust the valves. I like the simplicity of my bike and the reliability that brings. But I'm riding a Blast. I got it because I wanted to learn on something that didn't have too much power. I don't know how I would feel if I owned an XB. Would I be thinking "Nice bike but the engine sucks?" | ||
| Spiderman |
I think it would be cool if they use the striped down version of the motor, but it will be hard to find mounting areas for the Radiator Large enough. Nice think agout the VR1000 motor is it is a Wetsump so You can eliminate the Oil in the swing arm, Unless you put a Dry sump kit on the motor which would be pretty Balls out! But if you eliminate the Swing arm oil reserve you could make some wierd Swing arm Radiador combo or do like hte Benneli <sp> and put the rad under the tail section. I figure a Dual stacked 4" by 24" with a thickness of about 1 1/2" should be suficent.  (Message edited by spiderman on February 25, 2005) | ||
| Djkaplan |
I wouldn't mind a watercooled engine, but not the one in the V-Rod. | ||
| M1combat |
The V-Rod engine is too heavy. Do some searches here and you'll find a good deal of thoughtful discussion. Even a few more claims that it has happened. | ||
| Spiderman |
Whats is the weight of a V-rod motor next to a XB or Tuber twin?? I keep hearing that it is a Heavy motor but never any documentation to back it up. I am sure the motor all dressed up in a V-rod with the chrome bits and unneccesary covers is heavy but a striped down version??? | ||
| Steve_mackay |
The Vrod motor in a new sport touring tuber remake would be cool IMHO. But what the heck do I know?  | ||
| Whodom |
I was a big fan of the V-Rod engine idea at first but the more I read about the XB engine, the better I like it. I don't think Buell is "topped out" with it yet. It seems it would be relatively simple to lop a lot of weight off of the V-Rod; if you used isolation mounting you could axe the balance shaft(s) and gearing which I imagine are pretty heavy. The "for looks only" fins on the heads could be deleted too which should be worth a few pounds. | ||
| Buelliedan |
The revo enegine only weighs 15 pounds more than the Xbs engine. And thats in its current bling bling state. It would be easy to get that weight within a few pounds of the XBs current weight. Now you do have to add in radiator and water to that however. | ||
| Cowboy |
I have been told that the v-rod engine can be reprogramed to turn 11000 and still stay in warenty can this be true, if so this would make the v-rod engine very atractive in a sport bike. | ||
| Kenb |
The HD 45º v-twin makes gobs of torque and respectable horsepower in the proper configuration in a much less complicated manner than any hyper multi or water cooled twin. From a roadracng standpoint the twin is dead, the AMA and FIM (MotoGp) have put the nail in the coffin by equalling the displacement between the twin and multis, what would HD/Buell's incentive be to develop the revo motor any further for racing ? The air cooled twin has a home in the FX class and has replaced superbike as the premier event in Daytona, lets get excited about that. I applaud Eric and HD for developing the heck out of the old sportster mill. | ||
| M1combat |
It's TOO HEAVY. Shave it down all you want. It's less compact, you then need a rdiator and coolant. NOT ONLY THAT... but you need to find a PLACE to put the radiator and coolant. Not only is the revo motor taller (with a good deal of weight at the top) than the current Buell engine, but the radiator would need to be placed a ways out from the center. This add PMOI. If you don't know what that is... suffice to say... It's bad. A sport tourer with a V-Rod engine... sure, make one. I won't buy one, but I won't buy any other sport tourer either for a while. IF you really want a sport tourer with a V-Rod engine... BUY A V-ROD. The XB would be well served by having the lergest bore possible, and use whatever stroke length you need to get to 1350cc... Try to make it reliably rev out at 8500 too please . Sounds to me like this is what they're working on in FX yes? Water cooling? We don't need it. We don't have a big assed radiator in front of the engine blocking all of our air. OHC? We don't need it. Our valve train (and yeah, it's a train) can make it to 8500 from what I hear. What DOES the V-Rod have that we need? | ||
| Smokedaddy |
Maybe they'll modify the frame rails to incorporate the radiator into them. -SD: | ||
| M1combat |
Oh great... Then we'll have a max range of 40 miles... We won't benefit from OHC. Our valve train is capable of more than the bearings that hold the crank in place. We need temkin bearings, a crank that's somewhere between the nine and twelve stroke length, and a 3-13/16" bore. I'm thinking you may be able to add more bore than that with slipper pistons and a little longer con-rod... THAT's the direction you need to go if you want a race engine. You just need to keep the conrod:stroke length ratio above 1.7:1 to be able to use those slipper pistons. It may also be worth while to re-work the fins to see if you can't get a 10% efficiency bonus out of them. Maybe add ridges/ripples to the frontal area of the left side of the swingarm to increase surface area there as well, and put on a larger oil cooler. | ||
| Glitch |
I can't believe ya'll can't figure out where to put a simple radiator on an XB. Plenty of room!   | ||
| Dsergison |
how about an rc51 mill? now that has WAY more power, less weight, DOHC water cooled right? | ||
| Glitch |
how about an rc51 mill? Blasphemy, a honda in a Buell? I'd not buy one. | ||
| M1combat |
ME either. That said though, when I was shopping for my XB12R, my choices were XB12R, RC51, Duck 916. I would buy an RC51 (and probably still will, and a 916 as well), but I wouldn't buy a Buell with an RC51 engine. What's an SP2 cost? Can't I buy an XB12R and have Aaron 88" it for less? I think I can as long as I get a deal on a slightly used 12R? | ||
| Rick_a |
The venerable pushrod air cooled motor was the primary reason for going Buell versus other brands. It also happened to have an overall design that made most sense as well. It just wouldn't be a Buell with any other configuration. | ||
| Dsergison |
if you can't beat em, join em. /running for cover | ||
| M1combat |
Do I REALLY need to post the results for each race of the entire '04 FX season? It's not like the Buells finished last in every race. As a matter of fact, they did pretty good . | ||
| X1tx |
What water cooling does for you is allow higher 'power density' (more HP per cc) and better consistency of power. Suzuki went away from the oil/air cooled GSXR because once they reached the higher temperatures involved in racing the power would drop off significantly. For most street riding it's not an issue. But being a former Ducati Monster owner, I'd like it if Buell would do what Ducati did. They kept the air cooled version in the line but added the water cooled 4 valve version for those who were addicted to HP. The Buell could use a water cooled engine, just not the V-Rod mill. It's poorly packaged for a sport bike. It was made for a longer bike (cruiser) in which weight is not a limiting factor. Length and weight are killers for sport bikes. | ||
| Raraf |
nuff with the crap. Just bring it up to 100 REAL rwhp and a 10K redline & six speed tranny | ||
| Steve_mackay |
A 10K redline  | ||
| Buelliedan |
its funny to hear some of you saying that the Revo(v-rod) engine is made for a cruiser bike. You do realize what that motor is based off of don't you? | ||
| X1tx |
I think HD has really touted that "based on the VR1000" line a bit too much. Very little in common with the VR engine. | ||
| Buelliedan |
The revo engine is not that big if you take off the flashy bits. Its taller than an XB but shorter front to rear. | ||
| M1combat |
"Suzuki went away from the oil/air cooled GSXR because once they reached the higher temperatures involved in racing the power would drop off significantly. For most street riding it's not an issue. " Bring some tech... Are you sure they didn't do that because the IL4 engine isn't aero-dynamic so they had to cover it with a fairing thereby necessitating the need for other means of cooling? The Buell engine is very aero-dynamic. | ||
| Midknyte |
I've really rather impressed by the XB's for their justaposition of hi-tech and minimalism. Parts (frame, swingarm, etc.) performing multiple functions. hmmm. So ya wants a water cooled engine, but where to put a radiator? Thinking along those lines of dual functionality, one must recognize that our bikes already carry a rather large bag of water - us! We're what, 70-80% water right? It's only a matter of utilization  Become one with the bike, Luke | ||
| Buelliedan |
A plug in camel back should do the trick. Think of how much air is passing over your back when you are in a full crouch!! | ||
| Gowindward |
 I road my XB in the rain. There's water cooled for you. Seat of the pants Dyno says adds 7 HP. |
