| Author | Message | ||
     Qurtrn10 |
There's a good chance I might be given (or sold super cheap) a '97 S1 that's completely disassembled. My ideal tuber is a '98 S1W, so I'm wondering if I can build it into the ideal bike. Questions: 1) Was there any big difference in the frames between the two? 2) Can the wider manta tank be put onto the '97 S1 frame? Thanks all. | ||
| Falloutnl |
Don't think the frame has any differences, and the manta tank fits without issue. How far would you wanna go though? A proper S1W would also have the thunderstorm heads and bigger headers, right? | ||
| Qurtrn10 |
The bike was disassembled 5 or 6 years ago, and before that, it hadn't run in a couple of years, so if it's getting rebuilt anyway, I might as well go with the updated S1W parts. | ||
| Falloutnl |
Heads and headers might be tricky to get ahold of, but if you have a line on those items, then sure. And what about color? | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Definitely no issues with the tank and frame, it's just the heads and header/exhaust. I'm not sure if there's any other small differences with the ignition/cams/electrical stuff. Finding the 2.5" headers would be a serious project, and depending on how cheap you get this bike, you might spend more on those than you paid for the whole bike... I think the only other Buell that used the same style header was the first version of the S3 that still had the pipe going under the frame instead of over. If it was me, and I was just looking to get the performance of an S1, it might be worth sending your heads to Hammer to get them reworked, possibly one of the 1275 big bore kits, because tracking down the original parts is going to be a real project. Does anyone know between the two headers, are the actual pipes the same size, and it's just the end that has the 2"/2.5" difference? My bike is well overdue for a rebuild, and when I do I'd really like to try to squeeze a few extra HP out of it. I still use the stock exhaust, so I'm not expecting anything crazy, but wasn't sure how big of a difference that 2.5" header and exhaust really plays compared to the change in the heads. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
Frames are the same ,so Manta fuel tank does fit. The bigger diameter header is available through twinmotorcycles in IJsselstein. | ||
| Falloutnl |
"If it was me, and I was just looking to get the performance of an S1, it might be worth sending your heads to Hammer to get them reworked, possibly one of the 1275 big bore kits" Right, I have the 1250 kit on my 'standard' S1 Lightning and it's plenty fast. My dad has the 1275 kit on his late model M2, but that's a more tricky comparison since I think that also has the thunderstorm heads right? Anyway, it's even faster as you'd expect. My 2 cents: I'm with Upthemaiden on this one. Get a 1275 kit, clean the heads, get a mikuni flatslide carb and spend what you'll likely save doing this on either getting the nuclear blue or / white color scheme for your S1, though that is also a pretty major undertaking haha. | ||
| Qurtrn10 |
Thanks all. I'll definitely create a new thread here if/when I get the bike. | ||
| Falloutnl |
We are eagerly awaiting that thread! "The bigger diameter header is available through twinmotorcycles in IJsselstein." Yeah, price on request a.t.m., probably a 1500 euro part if I had to venture a guess, excluding taxes. (Message edited by falloutnl on April 18, 2024) | ||
| Upthemaiden |
At that price it might be cheaper to get an exhaust shop to replace the 2" outlet with a 2.5" outlet, but that's why I was asking if the actual header pipes are the same diameter between the two, and if it's only the outlet that's different. A few years ago I found someone local selling an un-titled S3 parts bike for $800 that had a thunderstorm engine with the correct headers and exhaust. I was literally 10 seconds from the turnpike onramp when I got a text saying it had been sold. I've been bitter about that ever since haha. I had dreams of dropping that engine in my S1, cleaning up my motor and stashing it away for the future. I've got the same general plans as Qurtrn10, but grabbing that bike would've make it a practically free upgrade if I sold off the extra parts that came with it. When you do, please start a new thread with plenty of pictures and details. I know all the information is on this site, but it'd be great to watch someone go through the process before I do. | ||
| Falloutnl |
"I was literally 10 seconds from the turnpike onramp when I got a text saying it had been sold. I've been bitter about that ever since haha." Yeah, that sucks. I'm happy with how my S1 is now btw. Only thing I might do somewhere down the road is upgrade the front forks. The WP forks are either showing their age or were never that great to begin with. Rebound and comp handled by one of the two legs for instance... not a fan. Bike looks good though:  (Message edited by falloutnl on April 19, 2024) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Thunderstorm is different heads, pistons to go with the heads, and cams. Put thunderstorm heads on a motor with lightning pistons and you'll have issues. I can't recall if it's a compression thing (too high, without the correct pistons) or an interference thing...but you need to use pistons to match the heads. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Bike looks fantastic! same setup as my 97, silver with an X1 swingarm. Mine needs a bit of love. It had a rough life before I got it, and I've just been too busy with kids and life to be able to give it too much attention other than what it needs to keep it on the road. I'm not looking for anything crazy out of the motor. After I got it I switched from the V&H exhaust back to the stock exhaust and had a notable drop in torque. If I could at least get it back to where it was with the V&H I'd be happy. | ||
| Falloutnl |
I do like the more discreet nature of the stock exhaust. At least, the older I get, the more mindful I am of the fact other people might not be into a good Buell exhaust note as I am, hehe. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Overall I highly prefer quiet bikes. I had my share of obnoxiously loud ones when I was younger, so I try not to judge when I see 20 year olds out on the road. Now 50-60 year olds on their cruisers who still haven't matured past that point.... haha ...regardless. My Buell is the one bike that I did really enjoy the exhaust on, I think just for the quirkiness of a sporty bike that sounded like a harley, although I still made sure to be quiet with it in neighborhoods and in traffic. I picked up some inner ear issues back in 2016 right in the middle of my kitchen remodel and buying the Buell. It was like after 6 months of nail guns and power tools, I started riding the bike and my ear just went "Enough!! I'm out of here!!", which also resulted in some dizziness and other stuff... so it's ear plugs and stock exhausts for me from now on. So I'm not looking to squeeze every bit of power I can out of the bike, I'd just like a little bit of that pep back, lighten up my front wheel a little bit again. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I've gravitated towards quiet as well. Everything in my stable has a stock muffler on it, and runs just great. Except my S1W, which has been off the road with a cracked header for the last 4 years or so. It has the factory race exhaust. I heard HDF was closing, so I took it down right quick and told Mike in the machine shop that I still needed it fixed...and he got it done in a day, welded up the collector cracks and installed a brace plate like the newer headers, to eliminate the "tuning fork" effect that causes the collector cracks in the first place. I have to get rivets for the muffler, but I cleaned the carb and fired it up last night and holy CRAP! It sounded like a top fuel bike, running just the open header!! I don't recall the race "muffler" quieting it down too much, but I'll repack with fresh steel wool and see. Not like the solo-seat S1W is a long-distance bike anyway lol (although I do have a hair over 10k miles on it now). I agree on not disturbing the locals when riding - I live on a great riding road and there's LOTS of bikes, all summer long. While I love folks who ride, I get tired of open exhaust at 0600 on a Sunday, when I get home from work at 0300 (live music career)....but hey, it is what it is, I suppose. | ||
| Falloutnl |
"Not like the solo-seat S1W is a long-distance bike anyway lol" I've had my seat re-upholstered by some dude in the Netherlands who can make it so that it resembles the original performance part, the Pegasus seat I think? Probably the best money I've spent on the bike given just how much more time can spend in the seat compared to before. It was an hour or so tops before it really started to be uncomfortable. I think I could pretty much go all day with the new seat. Really happy with it. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
"...and installed a brace plate like the newer headers" I've never noticed that on the newer headers. I pulled up some pictures of used headers on ebay and I think I see the part you mean... the square that was welded connecting both pipes together right before they split apart at the bend? I'll have to keep that in mind next time I have my headers removed. How far up did they weld it on yours? Do you have a picture? Mine has primarily been used for riding back and forth to work, only about 30 minutes each way, so luckily I've never had any issues with the seat. It had the corbin installed when I got it, and I didn't care for it. It was so firm and the leather was so slick that any time I left a step sign or redlight I'd slide back a couple inches. I put the stock seat back on, traded the corbin to someone for their stock exhaust, and have been much more comfortable since. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Yep, the square on the engine side of the pipes, right in front of the engine. I have an old stock 01 M2 header with the square, and asked my guy to add it to help prolong it's life. Took him the bike (no carb, bodywork, or muffler) with the header attached. He tacked it to set the angles, removed the header, finish welded it and added the square. It fell back on. He got the angles perfect, and the welds are art. Which is why I took it to him. And for what replacement headers are going for? $250 was a steal. As old as I am...I'm touching up some details after my shakedown run tonight (this damn thing is ROWDY!!), thinking to myself "I won't have to do this again...or this...or this....I'll have quit riding before any of this stuff needs attention again!" But damn it was fun blasting to the gas station for fresh fuel! Gonna renew the (2020!) tags tomorrow and start putting some miles on again  | ||
| Falloutnl |
"As old as I am" How old are you?  I just turned 40 last month. "And for what replacement headers are going for? $250 was a steal." Absolutely. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'm (shudder) 51. | ||
| Falloutnl |
Haha, but that's pretty young still! You've got a good few rebuilds left in you yet young man. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Already had one major rebuild done TO ME, 16 years ago...all the docs said "we thought you were leaving in a bag". I sound like microwave popcorn when I get out of bed in the morning...and I have almost as much metal in my legs as there is in one of those large Buell tool rolls! | ||
| Falloutnl |
Pretty high up on the list of things you'd rather not hear from a doctor lol. Good thing you proved them wrong. |
