| Author | Message | ||
     R1DynaSquid |
I assume that I would mount a fairing on the Buell and have it geared to achieve a top speed of around 150 mph And assuming you even have the power to pull the speed, how long would it take to achieve it? The R1 will hit 140+ in 11 seconds or less. Thats a huge huge advantage at big tracks. How far behind in the Fontana race were the 1350cc Buells? Something like 45-50 seconds? And they arent even playing against the real big dogs. | ||
| Rocketman |
I see here how Dyna has been brow beaten into assuming his 04 R1 has the lesser suspension than Blakes old dog M2 simply because he hasn't had time to get use to the full potential of the R1. You lot are pissed. An 04 R1 comes standard with 43mm inverted forks, adjustable pre-load, compression and rebound damping. Anyone around here seen the forks on a 97 M2? An 04 R1 comes standard with rear shock adjustable pre-load, compression and rebound damping. Anyone know what adjustments can be made to a 97 M2 shock? The rebound damping is factory set. Say, what shock are you running Blake? Assuming it's top notch there's nothing to prove your M2's rear suspension works better than an 04 R1's rear suspension. We know by the horse power and size of the rear tyre on the R1 that the suspension is working harder than an M2's, and we know the R1's suspension works in pure racing terms. The same cannot be said of the M2's suspension. The obvious difference, and unproven at world level racing (unlike the R1's set-up), is the shock working in pull rather than compression when the rear wheel is traveling upwards. As a side note, it's interesting to see over the past few years how the Buell type shocks have suffered so many failures and how Buell have abandoned the under slung shock with the XB's. Whilst I'm sure the under slung shock works, and has its merits, I think it's safe to say that a more conventional shock arrangement has yet to be bettered. In every magazine test I've read and seen this year the 04 R1 has beaten EVERY bike on road and track. Thus far it is the best handling litre road bike the Japanese have ever produced. It has won the TT this year and broken the lap record (again). It has won at WSB and BSB already this year. There is no way in hell an M2 will ever handle as near good as an 04 R1. For fcuk sake, get a grip. The 04 R1 would beat a Buell on ANY track no matter how twisty. Ask yourself one question. Where does the 97 M2 have one single advantage over an 04 R1? I can't think of one. Then you say Blake, but without grip its only advantage is top speed. Where have you heard or seen an 04 R1 without grip Blake? Wouldn't be the one Court saw in the Armco would it, would it, would it? Where would any bike be without grip? Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Dyna, some tips posted in MCN U.K, early June. Factory testers, Circuit de Cataluyna (very bumpy) so recommended for road riding. 04 R1 :- Front Pre-load, std. Rebound, +4 clicks. Comp, +2 clicks. Rear Pre-load, 2 notches up. Rebound, 4 clicks. Comp, 4 clicks. Rocket | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
IIRC didn't he break the track record the first time from a standing start on the R1 for the TT this year then smashed it with the flying lap? | ||
| Bads1 |
Dyna they Weren't 45-50 seconds off pace.Hell they were only about 8 off pace at Road America.And what do you call the real BIG DOGS???SUPER STOCK????Those little Formula Extreme bikes are doing 180 in the straights at Minnitonka. | ||
| Blake |
Rocket, You don't seem to comprehend the whole point of discussion. It is about racing tires versus street tires and whether the racing tires on my M2 would equalize the performance advantage of an R1 on street tires. You do understand the difference between racing and street tires do you not? Like I said, are you listening, cause I won't repeat it again... the R1 is a far superior racing machine than my 8 year old '97 Cyclone. So stifle bipolar boy.  Dyna, I watched all the recent RA races on TV. Seemed like the bikes were negotiating the turns for a LOT longer than they were upright at high speed. Not to say they weren't upright at high speed a significant amount of each lap, but I'd estimate it at around 25% of the total lap time, or around 35 seconds. It is not that street tires will be sliding; they simply will not support the same cornering speeds or extreme lean angles. The R1 would pull on the straights, the race tire shod Cyclone would pull into, through, and out of the turns. You sure are confident. Makes it that much more tempting to make the trip. You are smarter than ole Cecil, I'll give you that. Him thinking he could whoop me with his ZX12R at my home track. Man I was hoping he'd throw down for that challenge. It would have been absolutely glorious.  It takes me ~11 seconds from a sitting start to hit 120 mph. Wycked, I doubt very much that my Cyclone will outhandle an R1. But the race rubber will allow significantly higher cornering speeds and that makes a HUGE difference in lap times. Street tires flat out SUCK for use on a race track. | ||
| Blake |
Rocket, Chances are the factory testers don't weigh 210 LBs. | ||
| Blake |
"How far behind in the Fontana race were the 1350cc Buells? Something like 45-50 seconds? And they aren't even playing against the real big dogs." The Buells didn't enter the series until Barber, two rounds after Fontana. But what does that have to do with relative performance of race tires versus street tires??? You can find all the lap times and stuff at... AMA Superbike.com At RA the fastest SB lap was a 2:14, the best FX Buell lap was a 2:21.8, whatever that means. I would estimate that street tires would hurt both of those lap times to the tune of six to eight additional seconds. But we'll probably never know. So I win!  | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
My bad at putting a "." in the wrong spot Blake. Basically I ment what you said about the higher cornering speed. I just don't think the R1 would be hindered that much even on street tires at RA to give you that much of an advantage. (Edited due to a technical error found when I double checked a rule.) edited by wyckedflesh on July 08, 2004 | ||
| Opto |
BTW...I have been working with my suspension on an almost daily basis... Dyna, you actually do a few squats and pushups on a daily basis? LOL  BTW...the only R1 I rode with got positively smoked. IT tried to redeem it's pride by pulling outrageous speeds in a straight line, but the word was out at work by Tuesday lunchtime, the old fart on the Buell left the younger Honda and Yam riders behind, just took a day or 2 for one of them to admit it to their workmates. | ||
| Blake |
Rider skill is a HUGE factor, as I was forced to acknowledge when the kid on the RS125 passed me on my big bad Cyclone after stalking me for three laps. I was on street tires. He literally flew by me in turn 4. It's what convinced me to go to race tires. Wycked, I think you underestimate the superiority of race tires. But it would be interesting to see. Maybe some day. Would be interesting to ask some real pro racers if they would rather have a 130 rwhp Supersport machine on race rubber or a 200 rwhp Superbike on street tires for a race at RA. I bet all would pick the Supersport bike on race tires. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Its not an understimate of race tires. It has more to do with an estimation of the difference a streetlegal trackday tire makes over regular street tires. Dyna is no fool, he will be smart enough to mount a set of Diablo supercorsas or Pilot's or what ever flavor he happens to get his hands on that are super soft yet still DOT legal | ||
| M1combat |
I think it's about the stock R1 tires... D208's or "218's"... | ||
| Blake |
No, not DOT race tires. Those qualify for street use, but are NOT street tires; they are race tires pure and simple with a few meager tread grooves, just enough to meet DOT requirements. I am talking about a set of D208 ZR's or equivalent. The D208 GP tires are purpose built racing tires as are their cousins from Michelin, Pirelli, Metzeler and all the others. FYI, I could find no mention anywhere on the internet or in the current issue of Cycle World of a D218 Dunlop tire. I even called a dealer, they had not heard of it. Must be next year's model? | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
You can find all those obscure little tid bits about Iraq but you couldnt find info on a tire? Heres a pic I just took. | ||
| Bads1 |
The R1 is to what I understand the only bike wearing them right now???Could be wrong but I don't think so. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
http://www.burning-out.de/news/2004/01/20040117150243.shtml http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/2004/2004-yam-r1-D218.pdf http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=511 But the low temperatures did nothing to diminish the high excitement of the R1. It was just a few corners into the shoot that I was able to get a knee down, which was surprisingly simple even with the unwarmed Dunlop D218 tires. Wow, that took all of about 3 seconds to find with a simple google search. And no the R1 isnt the only bike to wear em, the ZX10R also comes standard with the 218's. | ||
| Bads1 |
Like I said could be wrong.  | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Zx-10 from Kawi and suppossedly the Gixxer 1000 also. Dyna all kinds of info on the D218 online but its all in other languages. It appears to have been designed for the Euro market but got chosen for the Litre bikes here. Blake, now it becomes clear. I wasn't aware that you had limited the street tire choices down like that. Though from what I am reading about the D218s or I should say the little bit I can understand those are not far from being almost what you don't want him on... IF the D218 is available in a 180/50ZR17 which is hard to tell from Dunlops site, maybe the new stock tires for the XB's? edited by wyckedflesh on July 08, 2004 | ||
| Sportsman |
Blake, don't feel bad about a 125 going by. At VIR the 125's and 250's just fly. 16 turns, 1 straight that has a big downhill as you enter. I believe cornerspeed is limited by weight. The tubers are only gonna go that fast. Back on topic. My money is on the R1, it weighs less and that can make up the tire compound difference. | ||
| Blake |
Wycked, The DOT race tires are never referred to as "street tires"; they are "race tires". I can see your confusion though. Nope, the D218 will suck on the track compared to racing tires. Sportsman, How do you know a stock R1 it weighs less than my race prepped Cyclone? I doubt it. Probably about the same. When's the next track day at RA? | ||
| Blake |
Douglas, Thanks for the kind words wrt the RS125. One consolation is that besides me being on street tires, it was also pre-NRHSing of the engine. I probably only had 30 HP on the guy and an extra 200 LBs. Still was pretty annoying having that little buzzing pos fly by me. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Race prepped cyclone...how much weight could it possibly lose? Stock the bike is right around the 490-500 lb mark wet. The R1 is coming in at 445-450 lbs wet. 155 rwhp & race ready suspension. Nope, the D218 will suck on the track compared to racing tires. For someone 30 minutes ago was in denial that the tire even existed, you sure appear to be pretty confident the tire will suck. As much grip as a full out race tire? Of course not, but hardly worthy of the word "suck". | ||
| M1combat |
Depends on how you look at it Dyna... A full field of R1's... Competitive class... One guy accidentally put on his rims that have street tires mounted, the rest are all running race slicks... Yeah, They'll suck. | ||
| Paulinoz |
Watching a show with The mighty Mick D this morning about bike traction and cornering, he stated that a Moto GP bike on an average race lap spends 11 seconds of it's lap time upright with the rider in the seat the rest of the time bike and rider are leaned over which suprised me lot less time than I would have thought. I know this is an average but that equals a 10% time spent going flat out straight. | ||
| Sportsman |
OK, THAT'S IT. Sombody set up a BRAG track day at Road America. We can all have fun and settle this once and for all. Where do I send my $100? You two better show up! | ||
| Tucsonxb9s |
Blake, didn't you have another challenge to race someone a while back? Whatever came of that? | ||
| Sportsman |
Dyna, my X1 came in at 425 wet, race ready with a starter. Personally, on a R1 I think you got me, but I hope sombody out there sets it up. I think we could all have alot of fun. To be fair this should be set up somewhere in the middle so nobody has to travel too far. Showtime! | ||
| Jasonxb12s |
Damn dude, 172? !@#$!! I've been up to 152-ish in my M3 a couple times and got spooked a little. I can't imagine doing that without a seatbelt and windshield. I'm a bit jealous. It's got to be crazy seeing someone zip by on a bike doing those speeds...."Did you see that honey?"....."What?" "A ufo just passed us." | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Im more than up for the challenge. Lets set this up for next years Buell homecoming. This one will be worth the $75. Better start my exercise program asap.  |
