| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
Don't get too caught up in rumors . . . you'll miss something important. | ||
| Froggy |
Trust me, I'm not, it just has me pondering a bit.  | ||
| Cash |
Just the other day I talked to a local dealership owner and he has been assured that Buell is not going anywhere. The shut down is because there is extra product on showroom floors and the hope is that the shut down will help thin that out. That's it nothing more. | ||
| Blake |
Johnboy777, You must be one of the folks harboring a strange need to imagine that Buell motorcycles are really Harley-Davidsons. The bursting of your bubble now happens. They are no such thing. Buell motorcycles are designed, engineered, and manufactured by Buell Motorcycle Company (BMC), previously Buell Motor Company, which had no relation with HDI, the parent company of HDMC, or with HDMC other than that of vendor and buyer. It is 100% entirely inaccurate to state that Buells are made by Harley-Davidson. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Hey Blake, I understand that Buell is a division of HD ... but HD ultimately call the shots, period. Buell is NOT Erik's company, any longer. He heads up that division, with HD telling him what he can and can't do. . | ||
| Johnboy777 |
This argument that you guys are coming up with is like saying General Motors doesn’t make Pontiacs … Pontiac makes Pontiacs. Well, when GM decided to stop making Pontiacs, it wasn’t Pontiac making that decision, was it? HD controls every aspect of Buell; regardless of the amount of latitude they've given Buell, they still completely control it. If HD ever decides to stop making Buells, then they will, regardless of what anyone at Buell says. . | ||
| Blake |
"I understand that Buell is a division of HD" Wrong. Try again. Buell is not a division of Harley-Davidson. Buell is a wholly owned subsidiary of Harley-Davidson Incorporated (HDI). The same is true for Harley-Davidson Motor Company (HDMC), a wholly owned subsidiary of HDI. HDI, the owner of BMC, does not build motorcycles. Among other ventures, they own a couple of companies that build motorcycles. Buell builds Buell motorcycles. Harley-Davidson Motor Company builds Harley-Davidson motorcycles. HDI owns them both. Harley-Davidson does not build Buell motorcycles. The never have, and likely never will. "HD controls every aspect of Buell; regardless of the amount of latitude they've given Buell, they still completely control it." Wrong again. As stated above, HDI own BMC. The actual direct control of Buell is up to Buell's president and other executive officers. Your GM/Pontiac analogy is invalid as Pontiac was indeed merely a division of GM, not a wholly owned subsidiary. The difference is significant. "If HD ever decides to stop making Buells, then they will, regardless of what anyone at Buell says." You must be privy to legal contracts that I've not seen. That said, as owner of the company, HDI (not HDMC), is certainly able to sell or close BMC as they wish, subject to any legal agreement(s) that may remain in force between Mr. Buell and HDI. What is your point? That HDI builds Buell motorcycles? They don't. Buell Motorcycle Company builds Buells. They do so at the Buell factory, a separate, independent, stand-alone facility situated entirely apart from HDI and/or HDMC. Buell motorcycles are designed and engineered at the Buell offices, the ones next to the Buell factory. Period. It sure is queer how some folks get so twisted not having the Harley-Davidson marque assigned to their Buell motorcycles. | ||
| Blake |
"HD controls every aspect of Buell; regardless of the amount of latitude they've given Buell, they still completely control it." That raises a funny scene in my mind. Picture an HDI executive mandating to Erik and company how they need to design the next Buell motorcycle. Cut to scene, said HDI executive being tossed outside on his head. LOL. | ||
| Itileman |
A most excellent explanation.  | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""Wrong again. As stated above, HDI own BMC. The actual direct control of Buell is up to Buell's president and other executive officers."" Blake, HDI vs. HDMC - so HD has a holding company for itself and its other interests. You are arguing about what...corporate structure? Very funny! ""The actual direct control of Buell is up to Buell's president and other executive officers."" Yeah, once HD signs off on everything - that doesn't sound like 'direct' control to me. Day-to-day operations ... yeah, Buell does that. But all the long-range stuff goes by HD for approval. I know it's a hard pill to swallow for some folks - but HD owns, controls and ultimately calls the shots for Buell. Why? Because they own it - its their property/asset. You think HD is going to let Buell make decisions that are not in HD's best interest..think again. A divisions vs. a wholly-owned subsidiary...that's your argument? Come on now, as if that makes any kind of difference, whatsoever, in the overall scheme of things. BTW, I've been meaning to tell you, thanks for a great forum - I appreciate the commitment. Cheers . | ||
| Court |
That's inaccurate. | ||
| Davegess |
Court has that right. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Buell Motor Company is wholly owned by Harley. Sure, day to day operations are run by Erik and his staff. And he probably gets to spend (for the most part) funds budgeted to BMC every year so long as these expenditures don't compete in any fashion with what Harley is doing. I mean, you don't see Buell advertisements ripping Harley Davidson bikes. Also, don't for a minute believe that Erik doesn't have to keep either Harley's Board of Directors or whoever Erik directly reports to over at HOG corporate completely apprised as to what is going on over in East Troy. And finally, for those of you that still think that Erik has complete autonomy at the Buell factory, his new factory was kaboshed at the last minute by none other than Harley Corporate. http://cmgonline.com/content/view/1443/51/ http://www.kleenimpact.com/2009/05/harley-davidson -drops-new-plant-plans/ | ||
| Court |
That's inaccurate. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
The Buell factory looked plenty busy when I dropped by there this past week:  | ||
| Dentguy |
That's inaccurate. Which part of Electraglider_1997's post? All of it, some of it, a small part of it or none? (Message edited by dentguy on September 27, 2009) | ||
| Hangetsu |
Boy, what a pissing match. This thread has gone from bad to hopeless. | ||
| Rightpecial |
Who cares about the semantics of the situation? I for one like Buell Motorcycles and the fact that they are profitable in a time like this probably means they'll be around for a while...even if they are only a drop in the bucket compared to the whole HDI structure. | ||
| Ratbuell |
+1. Profit is profit, regardless of how big or small the "bucket" is. I have no doubt that while putting together his 200 year plan, Erik took into account there would be at least one or two "hard times" like we're having right now. I'm sure there are contingencies in place. Has the Buell plant closed it's doors? Nope. They are taking some time off around the holidays, as noted above, to try and equalize the inventory surplus. But they have in no way "closed". Buell is still Buell, they are not done by any stretch. If people are worried...go support the company. Visit your dealer. Buy a part (edit: buy a FACTORY part, not aftermarket). Buy a shirt. Don't feed me this crap about "my dealer doesn't have...". BS. ORDER something if you have to, but support the company. You don't have to buy a bike - I know times are tough, and lots of folks can't afford to - but get SOMEthing. A lever. A belt. A $12 turn signal. Something. Show your support. It'll help your dealer, AND it'll help the Elves. | ||
| Crusty |
My wife bought me a Uly Comfort kit for my Birthday. Does that count? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Absolutely | ||
| Tginnh |
I have no doubt that while putting together his 200 year plan, Erik took into account there would be at least one or two "hard times" like we're having right now. I'm sure there are contingencies in place. Just like the masters of the dot com and housing bubbles had their contingency plans in place? Come on, that smacks of hero worship. You would be hard pressed to find any company in the current age of short-sighted profit margins to have more than a 5 year plan. Like others have stated - Eric Buell is no longer the captain at the helm. What sooooooo many seem to forget on this thread is that HD is a traded company. Motorcycles don't mean sh*t. Profit rules the day. All the staunch, free-market capitalists seem to lose sight of that fact when the topic turns to their beloved 4-stroke, v-twin. I bought my Uly when I did because it "fit" what I wanted at the time. The engineering impressed the h*ll out of me. So I bought it. If the company goes under, that sucks. But larger fish are dying in this economic ocean. If Buell goes under, it will barely be a blip on the economic radar screen. H*ll, you probably won't even hear about it on the evening news. This whole thread has become something of a comic strip with all the armchair CEOing going on. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
spoke with Erik Saturday at the race track and he spoke about racing next year and all the rules the ama wants to impose on the 1125R. Not speaking like a defeated man. | ||
| Froggy |
They gonna give the 600cc riders a button to remotely disable one of Danny's cylinders?  | ||
| Rocketsprink |
actually MORE weight and a resticter. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
AND it's not the teams, but the factories b!tching. | ||
| F_skinner |
Yeah, once HD signs off on everything and what are they signing off on, please be specific. I do not ride a Harley anymore I only ride Buells but I know some Buell riders that need to tie some type of line to Harley Davidson. Does not matter to me, the titles on my 6 Buells say Buell not Harley Davidson. Buell is a wholly owned INDEPENDENT subsidiary of Harley Davidson. What would happen if EB was not involved with Buell anymore? My Buell buying days would be over. Erik Buell is more a part of Buell than newcomers to the brand realize and if you think BMC is just about motorcycles you would be wrong. Buell makes Buells, not Harley Davidson. (Message edited by f_skinner on September 27, 2009) | ||
| Rainman |
Heck, the fact that Buell is associated with H-D was one of the reasons I first got interested. | ||
| Rightpecial |
"Heck, the fact that Buell is associated with H-D was one of the reasons I first got interested." Funny thing is that's one of the reasons I stayed away. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Just like the masters of the dot com and housing bubbles had their contingency plans in place? The catch there is, none of those folks gave a crap about anything other than profit. They (especially in the housing market) *knowingly* financed people who shouldn't have gotten financed, and screwed everyone who didn't pay attention out of every dollar they could get their grubby fists around. Erik - I've met him, and I believe this - cares about the bikes, and the people. No hero worship here - he's just a normal guy, and every time I talk to him or one of the other folks at Buell, I'm reminded of that fact. Just normal people, no airs, no egos, no BS. |
