| Author | Message | ||
     Garyz28 |
"You would think it should get us at least a small discount on iraqi oil." That part I have to agree with. (Message edited by garyz28 on November 01, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
"1.2 trillion for the last 5 years is 6 trillion" WTF are you talkin' about ? Budget deficit? Prescription drug entitlements? | ||
| Returded |
we should all withhold the vote in protest or stop our govt wich accrd to const we have said right by majority of the people | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
1.2 trillion for the last 5 years is 6 trillion; plus 3 more years from the latest withdrawal plan is roughly 10 trillion. You would think it should get us at least a small discount on iraqi oil. Your right, I'm sure there is no better way to spend 10 trillion $ Please cite the source of your numbers. You do realize the TOTAL US Federal budget is just under $3T right? So we're gonna spend three times the total US budget? | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Oh, and why not try to refute the FACTS presented. You might learn something The FACT is the economy sucks major ass and your brilliant party is the ones that brought us here. Your god, Reagan was an idiot as well as all republican presidents that followed him. The fact is Mccain is just as big, if not bigger idiot, than them all. "I'll change Washington" Really? You had 8 years to disagree with Bush, yet voted with him 90% of the time. FACT is jobs are moving over seas because of SLAVE LABOR. Why can't you see that? "You evidently do envy those who are the most productive in our society and create the most jobs." Wealth doesn't create jobs. Where the hell do you get this crap from? So you have to be wealthy to be productive? Mccain taxes your health care as income? Where is the logic in that? Where is all the money coming from to "change Washington?" More tax cuts to the wealthy while heaping more of the burden on the working class of this Country? Yeah, it's work really well so far. Isn't the meaning of the word insane basically someone doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different outcome? I guess the Republicans are insane. And those that agree with their flawed logic. (Message edited by rocketsprink on November 02, 2008) (Message edited by rocketsprink on November 02, 2008) | ||
| Ryker77 |
Isn't the meaning of the word insane basically someone doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different outcome? Then why vote for the two party system? Barack will still be a part of the DNC. Pelosi and Reed will still have power. If your a true liberal then why note vote for Ralph Nader. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Wealth doesn't create jobs. Where the hell do you get this crap from? Lol, I don't think I've ever worked at a job for a company that was owned my a person with less wealth than me. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Wealth doesn't create jobs. Where the hell do you get this crap from? Wealth has created every company and every job in world history. Again, if wealth does NOT create jobs, what DOES it do? | ||
| Garryb |
U.S. SPENDING ON IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN BY MONTH, WEEK, DAY, HOUR, MINUTE, & SECOND (based on adjusted DOD FY 2007 obligations) IRAQ + AFGHANISTAN Per Month - $12.3 billion Per Week - $2.9 billion Per Day - $410 million Per Hour - $17 million Per Minute - $284,722 Per Second - $4,745 IRAQ Per Month - $10.3 billion Per Week - $2.4 billion Per Day - $343 million Per Hour - $14 million Per Minute - $238,425 Per Second - $3,973 AFGHANISTAN Per Month- $2 billion Per Week - $469 million Per Day - $67 million Per Hour - $2.8 million Per Minute - $46,296 Per Second - $771 SOURCE: Data from Amy Belasco, “The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Other Global War on Terror Operations Since 9/11,” Congressional Research Service (updated February 8, 2008). Totals may not add due to rounding. | ||
| Garryb |
Where did you think the budget deficit came from? New infrastructure? Alternative energy development? Improved health care? Better rail transport/public transportation? Job creation in America? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
To get to your $10T number, the war in Iraq would have to rage on for 400 months. I'm not so good at math, but that adds up to 33.3 years. I don't think that even the most pessimistic outlook on Iraq and Afghanistan expect us to be there for 33 years. | ||
| Garryb |
Democrats= use the wealth to benefit average americans. Republicans= vaporize the wealth in iraq | ||
| Garryb |
Fats- Its already gone on for 5 years and some would like it to go on till iraq gives us their oil. I'm just using three more years 5+3=8years *12 months per year * 10 billion/mnth= 960 billion (oops) (Message edited by garryb on November 02, 2008) | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Democrats= use the wealth to benefit average americans. Yea, steal the wealth so, " ...i wont have to worry about gas for my car or paying my mortgage" | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Again, if wealth does NOT create jobs, what DOES it do? You're seeing it now. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You're off by a factor of 10. It's $960B not $960T. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You're seeing it now. NO, I'm asking you. Don't wiggle out of the question. Explain to me what YOU believe wealth does. What do people who have it do with it? Where does it go? How is it used? This is important. I'm not trying to trap you. I want to know what YOU believe happens with wealth. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
FACT is jobs are moving over seas because of SLAVE LABOR. Why can't you see that? Yea, and the very core of the Democrat party, low to mid-income voters, are walking all over one another fighting to get into the door of your local WalMart to purchase those slave produced goods. I don't think it's wise to export our manufacturing base but NEITHER party is going to do a damn thing about it, contrary to what they say before election day. (Message edited by ferris_von_bueller on November 02, 2008) | ||
| Garryb |
Its the IRS that steals the wealth to pay for the deficit. Its the current administration that created the giant deficit. I guess it would be nice to have something to show for the deficit and that taxes were fairly distributed. Do you think they are? | ||
| Rainman |
If you are a true rebel, why not vote for Ralph Nader..... did, in 2000 John Hagelin in 1996 John Anderson in 1980. Can I wear the flag now? | ||
| Court |
Has anyone yet explained why a deficit is bad? I know why it is for an individual but for a government the scheme, logic and strategy is quite different. I don't have my own military. | ||
| Garryb |
I think some deficit is ok, maybe even good. The deficit is gov. debt that needs to be financed. The higher the debt, the harder it is to finance causing higher interest rates to attract investors. Unless the fed intervenes and drops rates, then we go to China and cut a deal. There is also some thing called crowding out, which means the debt gets so large that it competes with corperations and indiviguals ability to finance their debt. Unless the fed and treasury intervene and force rates down again. Then finally the whole system implodes and banks don't want to finance corp/indivigual debt anymore, they just want to invest in the governments massive debt. | ||
| Blake |
"More tax cuts to the wealthy while heaping more of the burden on the working class of this Country?" Ignoring truth is a handy tool of lefties. Wealthy folks pay a lot higher percentage of their income in federal taxes than the rest of us. Folks who earn much below average income in America pay ZERO federal income tax. Many of them already receive free money from the rest of us. Obama wants to give them more free money by taking more from the rest of us. Please explain how it is a "tax break" for those earning more income to pay tax at double or more the rate than the vast majority of the rest of us do? Maybe it's just me, but no matter how low my income might be, I'd want to pay some federal income tax, make it just a paltry ten dollars, but give me some real sense of contribution and ownership in my country; I'd sure as heck not want a handout from the feds! WTF is wrong with people so dead set on taking other folks earnings to give to someone else??! Some progressive rate makes sense, but over 30% seems like robbery to me. Class warfare is REALLY sad yet it is the core platform of the far left, just like it was for Castro, Stalin, Pol Pot, and now Chavez. If you wanna talk about social security tax (FICA) and medicare tax, and I'm all over that. Put that tax on 100% of everyone's earnings and cut the rate to half what it is now. I'm for it. Better yet, abolish it beginning with me. I'll glady keep paying in but accept no benefit if everyone else my age and younger does the same. Then give me an income tax credit for saving 10% and put the other %5 that would have gone to FICA towards welfare funding. Call it what it is. But it's simply not honest to go around whining about how the highest income earners only have to pay 35% of their income in tax while the lower income earners pay ZERO and actually receive free money from the rest of us. (Message edited by Blake on November 02, 2008) | ||
| Bill0351 |
"Has anyone yet explained why a deficit is bad?" Are you kidding? "In 2006, the federal government spent $1 out of every $12 on interest payments, or $227 billion. That’s more than we spend on education, housing, veterans’ care, and environmental protection, combined." (Brookings Institute) | ||
| Rainman |
Deficit Spending: It's not just for wars anymore. Reckon we'll be deficit spending for a very, very long time. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'm still waiting Rocco. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
As mass production has to be accompanied by mass consumption, mass consumption, in turn, implies a distribution of wealth — not of existing wealth, but of wealth as it is currently produced — to provide men with buying power equal to the amount of goods and services offered by the nation s economic machinery. Instead of achieving that kind of distribution, a giant suction pump had by 1929-30 drawn into a few hands an increasing portion of currently produced wealth. This served them as capital accumulations. But by taking purchasing power out of the hands of mass consumers, the savers denied to themselves the kind of effective demand for their products that would justify a reinvestment of their capital accumulations in new plants. In consequence, as in a poker game where the chips were concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the other fellows could stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit ran out, the game stopped. That is what happened to us in the twenties. We sustained high levels of employment in that period with the aid of an exceptional expansion of debt outside of the banking system. This debt was provided by the large growth of business savings as well as savings by individuals, particularly in the upper-income groups where taxes were relatively low. Private debt outside of the banking system increased about fifty per cent. This debt, which was at high interest rates, largely took the form of mortgage debt on housing, office, and hotel structures, consumer installment debt, brokers’ loans, and foreign debt. The stimulation to spending by debt-creation of this sort was short-lived and could not be counted on to sustain high levels of employment for long periods of time. Had there been a better distribution of the current income from the national product — in other words, had there been less savings by business and the higher-income groups and more income in the lower groups — we should have had far greater stability in our economy. Had the six billion dollars, for instance, that were loaned by corporations and wealthy individuals for stock-market speculation been distributed to the public as lower prices or higher wages and with less profits to the corporations and the well-to-do, it would have prevented or greatly moderated the economic collapse that began at the end of 1929. The time came when there were no more poker chips to be loaned on credit. Debtors thereupon were forced to curtail their consumption in an effort to create a margin that could be applied to the reduction of outstanding debts. This naturally reduced the demand for goods of all kinds and brought on what seemed to be overproduction, but was in reality underconsumption when judged in terms of the real world instead of the money world. This, in turn, brought about a fall in prices and employment. Unemployment further decreased the consumption of goods, which further increased unemployment, thus closing the circle in a continuing decline of prices. Earnings began to disappear, requiring economies of all kinds in the wages, salaries, and time of those employed. And thus again the vicious circle of deflation was closed until one third of the entire working population was unemployed, with our national income reduced by fifty per cent, and with the aggregate debt burden greater than ever before, not in dollars, but measured by current values and income that represented the ability to pay. Fixed charges, such as taxes, railroad and other utility rates, insurance and interest charges, clung close to the 1929 level and required such a portion of the national income to meet them that the amount left for consumption of goods was not sufficient to support the population. This then, was my reading of what brought on the depression. So, for the too long didn’t read crew out there, the basic argument he makes for the cause of the Great Depression is that for too long the extremely wealthy few had accumulated so much of the country’s wealth that they couldn’t even spend it all. This money sat in their bank accounts earning interest, but what that effectively does is take the money out of circulation. Since we rely on consumer spending to fuel our economy, and all the money was being funneled to the top, this created a vicious circle. Consumers didn’t have money to buy products anymore because they were in too much debt, thus creating less demand for products that the wealthy were making. In order to stay in business they needed to cut jobs to reduce the price and still make a profit. When people lose their jobs they have even less money to spend so demand falls even further, and then companies are forced to cut even more jobs. Here ya go bstrd. Marriners S. Eccley, Roosevelts Fed Chairman. Holds true today as it did then. Demand creates jobs, not wealth. Sorry I didn't back to you sooner. I have to work for a living. "Yea, and the very core of the Democrat party, low to mid-income voters, are walking all over one another fighting to get into the door of your local WalMart to purchase those slave produced goods." Now Democrats are low income? Boy, the stereotyping never ends here, does it. Sorry. I'm a democrat, and I won't step foot in a Wal Mart, yet my Republican Brother in law loves the place. Throws your theory right out the window. Why are Wal Marts so popular Republican strong states? I suspect all the answers you're all looking for will be given late Tuesday or early Wednesday morning. I have a feeling you'll be disappointed. And again, where is Mccain getting the money for his "changes" while at the same time "cutting taxes"? Still waiting for the answer to that one fatty. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Class warfare is REALLY sad yet it is the core platform of the far left, just like it was for Castro, Stalin, Pol Pot, and now Chavez. And taxing your health care is a great idea. You guys are insane. I'm out of here for good. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE delete my profile. PLEASE! | ||
| Dobr24 |
Rocket, Call me crazy, but doesn't Obama call for a redistribution of the wealth? Now that sounds like Castro and Stalin! | ||
| Bill0351 |
Drop a well crafted response to the craziness and then bail? Post a reasoned argument based in a sound understanding of economics and history and then run away? It's like a guy landing a solid combination and then asking the ref to end the match. Another thing.... There are many people here who I view to be off their rocker when it comes to politics. There are also people here who live a VERY active fantasy life. Some of those very same people would mail you some random part, or spend tons of time helping you sort out issues with your bike. Hell, most of them would probably invite you over for dinner and do the wrenching themselves if you were close enough. I couldn't be in greater disagreement with Blake politically, but if he was in Green Bay, I would buy him a burger and a beer. This is primarily a motorcycle site full of people who really understand what it means to be a motorcyclist. It pays to remember that and not let the political stuff get under your skin. (just my $.02) Bill |
