| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Good reading! http://motorcycledaily.com/08may08_chainsvbelt_p1. htm | ||
| Buellfighter |
That's all fine and good except we all know chains are far superior!  | ||
| Jaimec |
I see we have a basic reading comprehension problem here... | ||
| Xl1200r |
They sort of give BMW the credit for putting a belt on a sport bike first... kind of misleading to me. Also - the 1125R has a spring-loaded tensioner? This is news to me, guess I just didn't pay close enough attention. I did like the strength tests though - belts are in fact a little stronger than a chain - how's that for blowing your mind! (Message edited by xl1200r on May 09, 2008) | ||
| Greenlantern |
Chains vs belts. Who wins the fight? That's easy! Chuck Norris! | ||
| New12r |
That's easy! Chuck Norris!  | ||
| Hughlysses |
From the article: Much of the development work for facing material was done for NASCAR cam-drive belts, and as a consequence the material can withstand operating temperatures of 300 degrees -- probably a bit warmer than it will get on the back of your bike. Interesting to read this. I remember reading ~20 years ago about the move to belt drives on NASCAR engines. Yea, more "low tech" engines but they are pushrod motors that relatively reliably turn ~8500-9000 RPM for 500 miles. Smokey Yunich was among those that discovered that belts, even though they didn't have nearly the ultimate tensile strength of chain drives, were less prone to failure. It seems the high lift cams they run were causing HUGE peak loads on the chains due to the cam chain repeatedly going slack and then under tension at speed. Rotational flex in the camshaft made the condition even worse. This was discovered on his test engine which was a 350 CI Chevy V-8 powered by a ~300 HP electric motor (!!!). Smokey used a strobe light to study various parts of the engine while it was turned at normal operating speed by the electric motor. He found that the cam chain was whipping back and forth at speed. When a belt was substituted, it was found the belt damped out much of the cyclical load and was much less prone to breakage than the chains. Interesting stuff.... Oh yea, I'm sure Chuck Norris already knows all this. | ||
| Buellfighter |
I'll toss my chain and put a belt back on...yeah, Like that'll happen!  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I'd be willing to wager that all of Chuck's belts are black. | ||
| Hammeroid |
Chuck Norris doesn't use a chain or a belt. You don't need all that crap when you are fast enough to run around the world and punch yourself in the back of the head. This fun fact was Chuck Norris approved. | ||
| Jaimec |
If memory serves correctly, the FIRST sport bike with a belt drive was the Kawasaki GPz305, circa 1982... | ||
| Crusty |
I'll toss my chain and put a belt back on...yeah, Like that'll happen! It happened with me. I converted my M2 to chain drive. After 20,000 miles, I went back to belt. The belt required a lot less maintenance, and was more durable. It was also cleaner and the bike had less drivetrain slop. There is no perfect drive system; belts break, chains stretch and wear out sprockets quicker, and U-joints wear out. I've had all three systems on various motorcycles over the years, and I've come to prefer belts. | ||
| Xl1200r |
We need direct gear drive. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
No, we need laser drive | ||
| Zane |
Not chain, not belt not even laser drive. We need a warp drive. | ||
| Jaimec |
My mistake. When the GPz305 was first introduced, it came with a chain. The belt came a couple of years later (but still WAAAAAAY before the BMW): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_GPZ305 | ||
| Jaimec |
We need "LUDICROUS DRIVE!!" May the Schwartz be with you! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Tachyon drive! | ||
| Greenlantern |
Plutonium Q36 Space Modulator!  | ||
| Jaimec |
Just you all wait! When I get my Oscillation Overthruster installed, you'll ALL be sorry! Laugh-a while you can, Monkey-boy!! | ||
| Peeping_jon |
+1 Warp drive, I was a Star Trek fan. I did brake my 1st belt 2 wk ago. 25000 mi. Drifted into a Moto Guzzi dealer. I'll still keep my belt & Buell. Jon | ||
| Spike |
I found this paragraph particularly interesting:
In my 50k+ miles of Buell riding I've experienced two belt failures. One was a "walk-home" failure on my '99 M2 (which included a teeth-gnashing replacement procedure) and one "limp-home" failure on my '04 XB12R. Both occurred during clutched wheelies. The threat of a "walk-home" failure occurring hundreds of miles from home is the only thing that would even make me consider switching to a chain. If the belt engineers can relegate nearly all failures to "limp-home" status I'd never even think about touching a chain ever again. | ||
| Peeping_jon |
"limp home" = push | ||
| Xl1200r |
"limp home" = push Is that an offical definition? To me, "limp home" means the bike would still be driveable under very low speeds and stress levels. The article said something to the effect of damage to the belts tends to make itself well-known prior to a total failure. Breaking is total failure. | ||
| Alchemy |
I was hoping limp home referred to some reduced function riding. I believe "limp home" in the auto world came about when electronics began to dominate and it referred to a mode in the electronics that allowed some rudimentary engine ignition sufficient to motivate at a reduced speed but at least limp along. I use it in my job when I refer to a quasi graceful possibility of recovery from a bad situation ala Apollo 13. I was encouraged by an earlier comment that a belt may become slack when it was nearing failure. This would be great if it is confirmed the case. I can even imagine a little bling that would generate a warning if tension was falling. This could give the rider a heads-up in time to alter plans. Checking at the beginning of a ride is helpful but the process of failure probably does not proceed in the garage but on the road and a method of continuous monitoring would be helpful there. | ||
| Jaimec |
FYI: Your Cyclone had a GATES belt drive. This article was quoting Goodyear on THEIR technology. Buell dropped Gates and went with Goodyear because of superior technology. I think Harley still uses Gates. | ||
| Glitch |
I sheared off some teeth at a dyno drag. Didn't even know until I took the wheel off to change tires. I like the belts. | ||
| Freezerburn |
"limp home" is the dwelling of that poor fella that just can't getter up. | ||
| Spike |
Not sure where that came from. The "limp-home" failure I experienced on my '04 XB12R allowed me to ride the bike home. It ripped a few teeth off the belt while clutching up a wheelie. I felt it slip when the front end was coming up so I set it down and pulled over to check it out. When I saw a few teeth missing I hopped back on the bike and rode it home. No pushing involved. | ||
| New12r |
I lost almost 20 inches of teeth on my belt at barber and RODE it into the pits. Every chain that has failed left me WALKING. One broken chain cost me an engine so I will stick with my belts. (Message edited by new12r on May 09, 2008) |
