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Archive through June 11, 2007Court30 06-11-07  07:16 am
Archive through June 07, 2007Blake30 06-07-07  06:31 pm
         

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Davegess
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Barton is an amazing story (Rocket you need to write that up and send it to me); penniless racers taking on the world, obsessed Welshman living in a church, obsessed Americans working in a barn, much tilting at windmills, and just enough success to make you wonder "what if"

Qualifying for a GP with a bike and engine you built yourself is quite a feat. Winning a race at the IOM is also quite a feat.

I have my doubts about the Suzuki sabotage story; it reeks of sour grapes and excuse. I don't doubt that it make sense to those who were there but not to me.

The whole Barton effort was doomed by lack of money. The chassis was OK considering that it was a homebuilt with no testing or computer analysis behind it. The engine was immensely powerful and very, very unreliable (I have talked with several people who attempted to race them in cars, the universal opinion was, to be polite, not good).

What opinion Erik expresses is likely somewhat dependent his mood; if he is thinking broken ribs, high speed tank slappers and bankruptcy he will use different words than when he is thinking about just how fast the thing was. Perhaps as he gets older the pure Quixoteness of the whole thing colors his opinion.

It was a very long way from being a competitive motorcycle when he bought it (Erik's would not express it that way ;)) and had become very competitive by the time the rug was pulled out from under him.

This is not to take a away from what Dyson did. He just did not have the resources to do anymore.
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Court
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Great story and I'd love to read it . . . we made our bad luck the old fashioned way . . . we engineered it!

: )
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Skully
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

On a Buell enthusiast's forum, I would consider that to be a compliment.

Amen.

Sean, you have often caused me to rethink my positions on many subjects. That is a good thing. However, I have to ask, are you really so bored that you continue to come to a site where the owner and many of the participants are Buell fans and expect them to be otherwise? Maybe you just need a hug.

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Buellshyter
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you ain't brave enough to put your name to your words, shut the f up!

Now we know why your called Mr. Grumpy
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Rocketman
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hugs accepted.

On a Buell enthusiast's forum, I would consider that to be a compliment.

And Apartheid was just fine in South Africa? Was such, a compliment too?

Rocket
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Rocketman
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 03:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd suggest folks offended by anonymous posts do what I do with the TV . . simply don't read them.

Anonymous posts are excusable. Rocket's aren't. Good ole American politics at work on the BadWeB. Gotta love it.

Rocket
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Blake
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 04:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Grump,
Complaint noted and not entirely invalid in my view. But please from now on consider the posts by anonymi to reflect my own personal approval. Does that make it better? I'm willing to allow some very good folks to blow off steam anonymously where they otherwise are entirely unable to do so. I wish they wouldn't, but I cannot blame them one bit. They can dish out as good as they get.

Every single anonymi when asked, has honored my requests--I've made a number of them--concerning content posted here.

That is not true of my "friend" Sean.
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Blake
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Keith (Skully),

"Sean, you have often caused me to rethink my positions on many subjects. That is a good thing. However, I have to ask, are you really so bored that you continue to come to a site where the owner and many of the participants are Buell fans and expect them to be otherwise? Maybe you just need a hug. "

That would be a good beginning. joker

You rock Skully! : D
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Blake
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"And Apartheid was just fine in South Africa? Was such, a compliment too?"

Why not just call me "Hitler" while you are at it?

Let's put this in perspective shall we?

By seeking to foster a...

fun (not miserable),

thoughtful (not inconsiderate),

informative (not unfriendly),

positive (not relentlessly negative)

and constructive (not naysaying)

place for Buell enthusiasts to visit on the web--by seeking to foster a place like that, apparently in your mind BadWeB as a Buell enthusiasts' forum is on par with a government of racist bigotts waging brutal inhuman oppression upon a majority of its populace.

Considering my own lengthy, and personally intimate ties to BadWeB, then it seems impossible to deny that you must also equate me to such miserableness. Some friend.

Thanks a lot Sean. You are a real gem, you are. : ( :/
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake, I think I have heard stories about you sporting BadWeb arm bands and sponsoring Buell Youth rallies.

Does this mean Sean will need to start wearing a yellow troll symbol on his clothing?







I think fanaticism is best judged by the impact it has on others.
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Crusty
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 07:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Good ole American politics at work on the BadWeB


It is an American owned and moderated Forum about an American motorcycle. Would you prefer we sing the praises of Hyosung motorcycles?
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Rocketman
Posted on Monday, June 11, 2007 - 08:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

apparently in your mind BadWeB as a Buell enthusiasts' forum is on par with a government of racist bigotts waging brutal inhuman oppression upon a majority of its populace.

Seeing as you put it so succinctly Blake, no not at all!


Rocket
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Road_thing
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 01:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sean, please quit being an .

rt
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Mr_grumpy
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 04:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Glad you appreciate the concern Blake.
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Steveshakeshaft
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 05:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Barton used a Spondon chassis. Very well respected racing platform in the 1970's. That's why the bikes were known a Spartons.
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Rocketman
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 06:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm not sure the bike they ran at the 1976 GP had a Spondon built frame.

Bill (Spondon) told me he built a few initial frames that found their way into what became Spartons, but later on Barton he thought had started building their own frames as they could no longer afford his services. The 76 GP was around the time of the Silver Dream Racer, and Spondon didn't build anything as late as 1976 for Barton if my memory is correct.

I have some chassis info Bill provided me with somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

Rocket
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Steveshakeshaft
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 07:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You could be right Rocket. The three cylinder water cooled Suzuki based bikes (350's and 500's) used IIRC basically 250/350 TZ chassis built by Spondon.

I also recall the "Silver Dream" as in the film, bike being a 750cc machine.
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Rocketman
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2007 - 03:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was surprised to find that a lot of cheating went on in those days, and 750cc 500's were not uncommon on the grids.


Rocket
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Hughlysses
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 02:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Is it just me, or is this thing not amazingly similar to the British bike?

http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=3 &article_id=364
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It's the same Spirit ES1 bike Hugh. Nice find and thanks for the link! : )


Final Drive Pic


That final drive looks to me like under engine braking scenarios the rear of the bike will be pulled down, a good thing for optimum braking. Interesting.


quote:

Engine tune is up to the buyer’s wallet, but 240 mph is talked about as a possibility with a 210-hp motor. So is a cost between $330,000 and $1.5 million per bike!




About what I figured. LOL.
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Davegess
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was surprised to find that a lot of cheating went on in those days

Ah Rocket when we were young and naive and didn't know that people cheated. I think pro racers have been bending the rules since there were rules. Sorta the same deal as in most sports. when it is your livelihood you will do things you might not do for sport.
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Like figuring out how to get 130 RWHP out of a 600cc Supersport bike. How many supersport bike owners would pay big money to get that kind of performance with just some cam timing tinkering, a new chip, and exhaust.
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Doerman
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 05:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Two chains!!!
A dream come true for the chain gang! (sorry, could not help myself)
Asbjorn
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Glitch
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How much of an HP hit could one expect with such a drive chain set-up?
Looks like (to me) a lot going on, before the power gets to the pavement.
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Mr_grumpy
Posted on Thursday, June 14, 2007 - 03:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Glitch, it'll be plenty enough,

I watched the Sidecar TT races, 3 fat wheels, a carbon fibre & tube chassis & 2 people, all pushed along by a 600cc IL4, at scary speeds.

Now if I can just get a street-legal version...

Darling, you always said you wanted to come riding with me, hold on tight now .......
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