| Author | Message | ||
     Luvthemtorts |
Sorry to post this question here instead of the knowledge vault but I can't seem to start a new thread there. Is the Harley synthetic 20w - 50w safe to run in the primary of an 03' Firebolt XB9? I did a search but all I could find was reference to much heavier weights. The fellow at the shop I visited on vacation said to go with the 20/50 for both engine and transmission but I want to double check before I do it! Thanks and once again sorry for posting in an inappropriate place! | ||
| Tramp |
Can't go wrong with the sport-trans that the manual recommends, although mobil 1 is supposed to be good for both. | ||
| Pellis |
AMSOIL recommends SAE 20W-50 Synthetic Motorcycle Oil for both the engine and trans. https://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/mcv.aspx I've been using it for the last 10K in my bikes, the only thing I noticed is that it shifts better now. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Mobil 1 is also available in 75W90. Quite a few here are using that in the primary in combination with Mobil 1 15W50 in the engine. I think some of us consider a heavier oil more appropriate in the primary and transmission. Some who have used it reported improved and/or quieter shifting with 75W90. I am a fairly new Buell owner, I am running the 15W50 and 75W90 combo in the engine and primary, am happy with it now, but don't have any long term experience with it. There are a lot of variables to consider in choosing lubricants, aren't there? Jack | ||
| Patrickh |
I run Mobil 1 75W90, I can't say it's obviously superior to sport trans but it is easier to find on a sunday afternoon. | ||
| Patrickh |
oh yeah, Harley reccomends you run their synthetic stuff in both your motor and primary...this after years of swearing that your motor would blow up if you used synthetics in it. | ||
| Luvthemtorts |
I went ahead and changed it out with the synthetic 20w50 in the tranny and engine since it seems many use it. I hope it doesn't hurt anything! I was however a bit surprised at the amount of shavings that had collected on the little magnets on both of the drain plugs. With 3900 miles on it I hope it is just particles left over from machining. On a side note, the dipstick on these things SUCK! I think its about time to score one of those nifty billet jobs with the leveling swivel on the stick. Thanks for the replies! | ||
| Mbohmann |
I was informed by an engineering guy that 20W-50 and 75W-90 are actually the same viscosity. So the gear lube is not "heavier" than the engine oil. That's probably why some oil companies, like Amsoil recommend their 20W-50 for both the engine and primary. | ||
| Patrickh |
shavings might mean your primary chain is a too loose and is grinding the inside of your primary cover. It's worth a check...not to alarm you or anything, just pull the 2 screws on the inspection window and give the chain a wiggle. I am not sure what the XB spec is. I ride a tuber though, maybe an XB guy will chime in. | ||
| Tramp |
ummm. patrick- you're aware that the primary couldn't give you shavings that stick to that magnet, right? those ferrous shavings are the likely result of gear wear. i've been dealing with loads of them for a decade in my s2, no problems. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"I was informed by an engineering guy that 20W-50 and 75W-90 are actually the same viscosity. So the gear lube is not "heavier" than the engine oil." Okay, your Mukwonago/East Troy location intrigues me, so I'll take the opportunity to ask you to expand and clarify that statement. Purely for educational reasons. | ||
| Blake |
Try clicking on the "Start New Thread" link at the bottom of the topic listings? Kinda difficult to find if you don't know where it is. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Luvthemtorts - "On a side note, the dipstick on these things SUCK!" Adding a "bling quality" dipstick, that can be seen only with the seat removed and which gives you no better clues about when and how much oil to add, seems to be superflouous. After reading about and experiencing some of the issues on oil overfilling, in part due to oil drain down into the cases, I consider the mark on the dipstick to be no more than a rude approximation of accurate. When and how you use it is as important than what you see when you do. I check my oil when I return from a ride, with the bike on the side stand and shortly after stopping the engine. If the oil is touching the tip of the dipstick or maybe 1/8" up on it (wiped, then fully seated), it is fine. It will be short of the mark. If it is not, I add some. I have 1,300 miles on since the last oil change and have only added about 4 oz. of oil. This is on a 2000 M2 with 3,400 total miles on it, it is just getting broken in. The oil at that level, checked at that time, puts it where it was at after the oil and oil filter were changed (starting with a well warmed engine). The specified amounts of oil were added (4 oz. to the new filter, 24 oz. to the tank), and the bike ridden 10-15 minutes before the check. If you don't do your oil checks that way and add oil you run the risk of overfilling the tank. That can blow oil out of fillers, breathers, and vents, and even blow the plug out of the tank when you remove the seat. Check the horror stories in the KV. What Tramp said on the filings - I see about the same amount every time I pull the plug. Jack | ||
| Spike |
As Mbohmann said, gear oil viscosity and motor oil viscosity are not rated the same way. A 20w50 motor oil is actually a similar viscosity to a 75w90 gear oil. Here is a chart outlining viscosity of motor oil vs gear oil: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html (Message edited by spike on September 06, 2005) | ||
| Spike |
Edit- Double post (Message edited by spike on September 06, 2005) | ||
| Fullpower |
as you can see here, a synthetic 20W-50 has been specified for all (fluid) lubrication needs on H-D and Buell vehicles.  | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Here is a chart outlining viscosity of motor oil vs gear oil: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html" I'm not questioning this, I'm just surprised I never knew it. All the articles on motor oil I've read and not once did one mention this. | ||
| Luvthemtorts |
Jackbequick, My dipstick is located on the swingarm and not under the seat. While I do appreciate your input regarding oil levels, I am not getting the dipstick for the "bling" quality. The plastic one bends at a funny angle when it enters the swingarm because it is a solid piece. From what I have heard the billet one has a swivel on the stick that makes it easier to seat. | ||
| Luvthemtorts |
By the way, Thanks Blake! I looked and looked for the new thread button. I know you are trying to clean up this site by moving threads to the appropriate area and was hesitant to post here but needed the input. I apologize once again for overlooking the new thread starter over in the knowledge vault. | ||
| Patrickh |
Tramp...YOU MEAN ALUMINUM ISN'T MAGNETIC!...doh I should have said that the last (and only) time I had any filings in my primary drive was because the adjuster shoe was broken and the chain was so loose it was grinding against the cover. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Lovuthemtorts - My apologies for the useless reply, I didn't think to check your profile for the bike model. I tend to think in terms of tubers. Jack | ||
| Wardog3187 |
I'm totally baffled and bewildered by all of the forum posts about oil.  You guys make my head hurt!  I don't care what anybody thinks, but I will be running AMSOIL 20W/50 in the engine and 75W/90 in the primary.  My AMSOIL package should arrive tomorrow and oil change this weekend. | ||
| Luvthemtorts |
Wardog, More power to ya! However for us less mechanically inclined it is always best to ask first. I am man enough to ask when I have a question. The replies I received were very helpful. An easy way to get rid of your headache is to skip over the oil posts if they bother you. Jackbequick, No apology needed and no offense taken. I actually appreciated your input. On a side note, I believe I overfilled by a hair since there was a small bit of oil sputter in the airbox this evening. I ended up playing it safe and pulling some out of the reservoir with a straw. Checked all the gaskets and no leaks so hopefully no harm done! | ||
| Tramp |
luvelywarts: removing strawfuls is overengineering a non-issue. relax. there's no such thing as overfilling by "a hair" on these beasts. warthog: hey- I never started an oil thread. i've done exceptionally well with my machines by running organic oil in the mill and (in the case pf buells and sporties) sport-trans in the trans. doesn't mean it's the only way to go, only saying it's taken me coast-to-coast & seashore to mountaintop, 4 seasons, for over a decade. for all I know, Synth may very well have been better. i know that the clutch (you know- that friction-reliant component) shares the transmission's oilbath, so maybe the factory recommendation is the way to go. I'm also keenly aware of the placebo effect inherent in the average moto-dweeb. A buddy once demanded that i put "slick 50" in his BMW r90S's crankcase  , so, being the stickler for the will of the overbearing buddy, I used good ol' spectro organic and nuttin' else in his mill. the jerkoff was crowing about how much smoother it ran for the next month, until one'a my buddies clued him in to our li'l prank. placebo effect and E-hypochondriasis can make you hear and feel "things".... in BOTH directions | ||
| Luvthemtorts |
Trampvestite, No need for namecalling LOL! Actually the little side note was for Jackbequick since he mentioned issues caused by overfilling. Call it what you will but it sure made me feel better about the situation. Must be the placebo effect? | ||
| Tramp |
 -trampvestite | ||
| Ceejay |
since you guys brought it up, does overfilling the swingarm on an XB cause the same problems? I alway thought the reason it did this on a tuber was because it being a dry sump and the resevoir sat higher than the crankcase, it now tries to equal out, like a garden hose level. Since an XB now has the oil in a lower spot wouldn't the oil tend to run into the swingarm from the crankcase if left to sit for awhile? No real reason for asking other than my own drinking and thinking as I have a tuber. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Wardog - So are you saying you have not used that oil yet? But you're already a staunch proponent of it? How did that happen? Picking an oil is like picking a bride. It is a personal decision, people around you will disagree with your choice, you'll have to live with the consequences, and you may regret it later. :>  Jack | ||
| Tramp |
well put, jack. and based on the lubes being used, coincidentally, in the drivetrains that i repair here, and the lubes being used in those that i don't have to touch, i choose the old-fashioned swill. could just be the riders, i don't know. | ||
| Tomd |
Hi All, One thing that troubles me about using gear lube in primarys is that there isn't, as far as I know, hypoid type gear sets in Sportster or Buell primary/transmissions. I went to a voc school, (ya, I know, but they really did have internal combustion engines when I was in high school) I had it drilled into my head for 4 years that gear lube was designed for the super high shearing loads in ring and pinion differentials and that it had huge amounts of sulfur in it to keep galling and metal transfer/friction welding in check. If something is designed to keep parts sliding together under high loads, why would you want that for a clutch which is designed to stick together under high loads? I have always used either motor oil or HD primary/sportrans in my pre-synthetic days and Amsoil 20-50 in my post synthetic days. Tom |
