| Author | Message | ||
     Roc |
Banke - maybe later. I don't know about adjusting the turbo for more boost. I've read that they should put out around 10 pounds, but mine goes up to 15 - a bomb? One thing about that older style Aerocharger - seems like there would be fewer problems changing the oil filter. | ||
| Vr1203 |
Roc, Peter and everyone. Friday is the dyno run , went to work with the turbo bike today. Back fire, loss of boost. I knew what happened,I blew the turbo apart again! The "belly" band will not hold it together and it comes apart at the joint.I have seen no damage in the past. Whats up with this? I think I'm real rich(as in fuel  ),maybe unburned fuel? Maybe running into the rev limiter? Sour motor ? Retarded timing? I'll put it back together tomorrow and take a blast. I think I'll wait for the dyno to give me an answer. | ||
| Peter |
Jim, Do you have an air/fuel guage on it? I use one on my M2 which I'll be putting on the S1W when it's ready. Very handy for jetting. PPiA | ||
| Vr1203 |
Pete, I did'nt think the O2 sensor worked very well with 115 octane fuel. | ||
| Peter |
I've never tried it, but I think Aaron said he couldn't get correct readings using race gas on his too. I'm hoping to avoid having to use race gas in mine. PPiA | ||
| Roc |
Vr1203 - I've had a few backfires and wondered about damage, but I never thought the thing would go to pieces.  Do you have a fuel pressure guage hooked up? Fuel pressure should be 1.5 to 2 pounds above boost pressure. I hooked up a fuel pressure guage, part number 656-101 from JEG's, which is 1 800 345-4545. This helped me determine I had way to little fuel pressure. On the fuel pressure regulator there is a set screw on an allen head bolt. To increase fuel pressure screw this in and to decrease it screw it out. It is my understanding that this only insures adequate fuel supply to the carb, but if it is a few pounds to high it runs as though it is very rich. It will backfire, have blackish exhaust smoke, etc. Also, if the fuel pump is on and the motor is not it seems to want to flood - particularly if you have to much fuel pressure. If the fuel pressure is to low it will starve the motor of fuel. Maybe to much fuel pressure is contributing to your problem? I don't know, but that is my most recently gained bit of knowledge about the system. 115 octane? I hve been running 92 octane with some octane booster, and I think I have yet to have any detonation. Even when the bike had an unboosted CR of 9:1 I don't think it detonated, the pistons looked great. | ||
| Roc |
I thought I better post that befor it was eaten by some computer glitch. Octane - I think higher octane fuels burn slower, and as a result they produce more heat. So my guess is that you want the right octane, not so little as to ping or so much as to contribute to detonation. Is this logical? Any input from you all on octane boosters? A/F guage - I bought a recalibrated Autometer guage from www.gadgetseller.com. This should be more sensative around the correct and rich range, hopefully better for fine adjustments. I also found a kit with an O2 sensor, wiring harness, and a fitting to be welded in in JEG's - PN 105-2244. I think this may be the best way to tune a turbo bike with an intercooler, unless you are near a dyno that will flow air at a given speed over your intercooler. I have yet to install these things, so I can't tell you how they work yet. Aerocharger cautioned me about having the O2 fitting welded in. They said I needed to have an argon purge of my header when it is done, to avoid putting slag into my turbo unit. | ||
| Vr1203 |
Roc, The band won't hold it together.I need a new band? (This winter I'll do some turbo rebuilding.$600 for ceramic bearings and seals etc.)I played with fuel pressures and float levels.You can run more pressure with lower float levels, I was having problems with fuel running out of my exhaust @ idle.Thought it was a float level problem,fixed that but I found it was starving @ high RPM. Mmm , I'll just raise the the pressure!I think I'm chasing my tail.By the way, I'm gonna run my 250 Gamma Fri. also, hope it doesn't show up the turbo bike! | ||
| Vr1203 |
Maybe this guy has got it figured out?http://adcache.cycletrader.com/5/2/4/26315724.htm | ||
| Wruffus |
I keep seeing my 99S3 with: 88" axtell cylinders S&S crank and rods 8:1 compression an Aerocharger But I see problems with fuel injection, especially with variable boost pressures. I figure at a static boost, I could get injectors and maybe a Power commander to dial things in, but with variable boost, I'd have to rewrite the undisclosed ECM code. Is this possible? Should I expect even a couple of phone calls worth of support from Buell on a project like this? What do I need to know about cams or head work? | ||
| Roc |
Wruffus - I don't think Aerocharger makes a system that works with F.I. I don't think Buell would be of much help either, but you will probably have a huge phone bill from calling you parts suppliers. If you have a bike like this in mind try www.rbracing-rsr.com . They can build you a turbo, FI, 124" monster. Check out their cinema section, "enjoying nature". | ||
| Redstripe |
Can anybody give me some FIRST HAND information 'bout fitting a fairly standard x1 with NOS!? 'Bout 1.100 $ seems fair costs for a +/- 25% power increase... -Kit with installment should be about 1.100 Euros in Holland, You see- Off course I'll have to add more fuel in order to increase power and not destroy the engine right-away. Aaaaaand....off course the x1's got fuel INJECTION. -problem there?- Could use some specifics... I've got a 2000 x1, all the nescessary recalls, racing ECM and full pro-series. Eagerly awaiting response, Jilles. -there MUST be a catch; otherwise the whole world would be sporting such a system!?- | ||
| Peter |
Jilles, Why not try it anyway? You can be the first guy to have it and then people will be able to learn from you. PPiA | ||
| Vr1203 |
Jilles, No first hand w/X1's, however you would supplmenting the extra O2(liberated when the NO2 gets hot) with extra fuel. The nozzle is fitted with two orifices and mix the two.You mount the NO2/fuel nozzle in the intake tract. Fuel injection has nothing to do with it. 10 to 15+hp per cylinder can be expected. Also, bottle warmers,inconsistencies with bottle fill up, leaks, and micro switches etc, etc lead to a few headaches. When working right, makes the bike feel real BIG! Like the HULK!Now install it along with a turbo,,,,,mmmm? | ||
| Aaron |
Jilles, VR1203 is right in everything he said, and there's much more to consider with respect to nitrous, too. I have it on the race bike, I'll show it to you and go over all the issues surrounding it when you get here. Suffice to say that it ain't as simple as it sounds, there's lots to think about and get right, and certain types of problems in it can toast a motor quick. But when it works, man can it add some big power. | ||
| Blake |
Actually, I just read somewhere about an EFI motorcycle, a UJM I think, that was set up for simple injection of raw N02 into the intake without any auxiliary fuel. The N02 flow was limited compared to a typical N02+Fuel configuration, but the system supposedly worked perfectly due to the EFI's ability to sense A/F ratio and quickly enrichen the mix when the N02 was activated. Not sure if the DDFI would handle the same scenario; it might need some extra fuel capacity to be able to keep up with the nitrous injection. Sure would be an EASY way to boost power 10-20%. | ||
| Aaron |
The big problem is going to be backing out some ignition timing. | ||
| Redstripe |
VR1203; Now correct me if I'm wrong, but Nitrous Oxide isn't a fuel, it's just capable of burning more fuel the injection won't deliver in the x1's case, right? How will the system then be able to "mix the two" without immediately annihilating the engine's internals? -I'm pretty sure the standard race ECM won't deliver the amount of extra fuel needed- Now don't misread me, I'm not a mechanical wizard, nor an extraordinarily gifted mechanic. -that's to answer Pete's suggestion- Blake; it sure would... VR; I don't think I'm into turbo's on a bike. Experiences with turbo fitted cars has put me off a little. Thing is, it's there all the time, and comes in fairly quick. With a bang, You might say. Not too manageable with cornering I would suspect. Pete says this can be dialled out on the system he's about to equip the s1 with. But then, he probably is the mechanical wizard I'm definitely not. Thanks for the input, Aaron. I'll be all ears and eyes once I make it to Your garage "workshop". How's the m2!? Now I'll warn You, I'm taking my Foggy leathers... -which should come in handy sharing rooms with Rocket in Wendover, Pete suggests- Now Pete; don't start with me on my cornering... You were the one telling me to ride the experienced group last year, and whoever made skidmarks on his m2 at Croix this year?  J. | ||
| Roc |
Redstripe - The Aerocharger system seems just fine in corners, in my limited experience. Lag, as in between throttle input and response, to be sure - but no power hit. It seems to make power in a very mild way. | ||
| Lee |
Speaking of turbos....... Does anyone (Aerocharger, etc.) make a turbo for the X1? I know a few years ago it was in the work but they were having trouble with the ECM. Lee | ||
| Vr1203 |
Redstripe,Think of NO2 being just real cold "air " in a bottle.It needs to be injected with fuel to keep your ratio correct. A "dry" system As Blake recommends will be restricted by how much more fuel can be delivered by the stock setup.Besides, the NO2 nozzles already have the two nozzles together to make the two items mix.You already have a fuel pump, its just some hoses,a bottle and some wires and you're all set! | ||
| Redstripe |
You make it all sound so easy... Just the way I like it! I'll let Aarons' expertise shine a light on it this September. J. | ||
| Blake |
Hmmm, with the new XB9 programmable race EFI... a dry NO2 system might be doable? | ||
| Aaron |
Think it'll let you adjust timing independently? I'm telling you guys, that's important on nitrous. On the X1, you can't move the timing without screwing up the injection. | ||
| Dawg |
I talked to NOS and they said the only real obstacle was installing an additional fuel valve to feed their pump which then mixes with the nitrous. Obviously there are a lot of things to consider but they(NOS) say you cant tie into the stock pump due to fuel pressure concerns. I am considering this on my 99 X-1 but I have yet to pull the trigger and order the kit. I think the extra fuel valve will be easily solved with some fittings from Jeggs for plastic fuel tanks its the tuning that keeps me from doing it. I dont want to waste my motor the first time I hit the nitrous. What are the major timing concerns with nitrous, more advance or less as copared to stock? Look forward to more research and discussion on the nitrous topic. By the way any input on running leaded race gas on a fuell injected bike, 02 sensor problems? | ||
| Aaron |
You need to retard the timing about 7-10 degrees from normal when you bring in the nitrous. The extra cylinder fill & pressure causes a faster burn. If you don't back off the timing, you're likely to get some severe detonation and lose an engine. Problem is, backing off the timing on an injected bike is not simple. You can't do it in any kind of a static way because the same sensor controls multiple things, move the timing from stock and you screw up the injection. And the ECM provides no retard input to do it in a dynamic fashion. Ignition modules used on carb'ed bikes are readily available with a nitrous retard input. Perhaps one could be rigged up to replace that function of the ECM? Chances are it'd have to share the sensor, don't know if that'd work. You're right, injection operates at a much higher pressure than nitrous. Fuel pressure in a nitrous system is typically under 8psi. You jet the nitrous to the fuel pressure, too. VR's comments about bottle pressure management are not to be taken lightly, either. It's a big problem, the stuff is a cryogenic gas and it wants to get cold and when the bottle is cold, the pressure is low and it don't work that well. You can buy pressure controlled bottle heaters but they suck a battery down quick. A single speck of dirt in a fuel jet or nozzle can take out a motor, too, if it makes it go lean. Any failure in the gasoline delivery, whether it's fuel supply or the pump or the solenoid can toast a motor. Likewise, a stuck open nitrous solenoid (it can happen) will take out a motor. Always prime the gas lines before using it or you can hurt the motor, too. It's dangerous stuff, not to be approached casually. | ||
| Vr1203 |
Aaron, Retarding the timing for NO2 is not what I experienced.At least for my Ducati. The charge being more dense,would slow the flame front down would'nt it? Because of bad things happening if your fuel does not come in when supposted to, I always 1.left my NO2 bottle off 2.armed the system 3.took off and the fuel would inject,it would upset the ratio, stumble bad and prove to me the fuel nozzle was seeing fuel. 4.turn on the bottle valve and hold on tight(just like Mad Max!) | ||
| Peter |
Jim, How did your dyno run go? I've got the engine back in my bike. Now I'm waiting for some brackets/flanges to get cut for me, (I'm too lazy to cut out 1/4" stainless plate with a saw), so I can make a new exhaust etc for it. Pete | ||
| Aaron |
Vr, they don't put nitrous retard inputs on ignition systems just for fun. I think, though, at modest levels of hp boost it's probably not essential. | ||
| Sarodude |
Hey Aaron- In the LSR area you mentioned having an amount of torque that approaches the limits of what the motor can tolerate. What do you know these limits to be? I can't help my aimless curiousity. One day I'll hopefully put it to some good use... -Saro |
