| Author | Message | ||
     Bigmac |
blake, rejetted the carb and installed S&S air cleaner with a set of bub baddog exhaust. the M2 is running great, power wheelies much easier now mike | ||
| Blake |
Cool beans! What did you end up with jetting wise? | ||
| Bigmac |
45 slow jet 195 main N65C needle with no shim's mixture screw 2.5 turns out mike | ||
| X1glider |
Anyone got anything good to say about adding a power commander to my purely stock 2001 X1? It's my first experience with F.I. The flat spot in the middle of the torque curve really bothers me (probably intentional for emissions requirements). I was thinking it can be eliminated with this simple device. Eventually a K&N filter and new exhaust will come into the picture, but for now I want to keep things simple. Not sure if it can make any adjustments on ignition timing either. Which one would I need? II, III, IIIR? | ||
| Rempss |
Bob, I would start with the Buell Race ECM before a PC. I recommend the muffler / air cleaner / Race ECM at the same time. This will cure most of your midrange dip. I cannot speak to how individual components will work, they are designed to work in conjuction with the other parts. Free up the intake and exhaust at the same time to increase airflow. You need the Race ECM to keep from going too lean after a intake/exhaust upgrade. Also run the breather hoses out of the airbox, it is almost free power. It only costs a catch can of some sort. Could be a $150 billet aluminum showpiece or a $0.59 2 cycle oil bottle. You should probably put some type of a filter in the line to avoid anything that may want to come back in, but it shouldn't as long as the umbrella valves are OK. Your call. The PC offered for the Buell does not allow for ignition changes, the ECM does a good job of adjusting it as required. The PCIII is the newest generation it takes the output from the injector leads and either allows for more or less flow depending on the map you use, only need to connect at the TPS and fuel injectors. The PCII "tricks" the ECM into thinking it needs more or less fuell by sending it altered signals from the sensors. I don't like the ECM receiving altered signals, seems as though it could create more problems. I have only used and seen the PCIII myself, my information on the PCII is from Dynojet, if someone needs to modifyor coorect my description, please do. The 1 rule with FI is, if you change the ECM, have you dealer reset the TPS. Needs to be done everytime a new ECM is swaped in or the TPS itself is moved/changed. I have seen a lot of bad print about problems with the Buell FI, I think most of it is user induced. It's a really simple system as long as it is treated nicely. Then you need a 1250 Big Bore, ported heads .... Careful my first question was just like yours.  Jeff | ||
| X1glider |
Hmmm. I was just gonna go for the "best bang for my buck" kit. For big twins, it is as simple as a stage 1 intake, slip-on muffler and rejetting. If that's the case with the X1, minus the re-jetting, I'll go for it. So you think the ECM change would be better than the power commander? I still have to believe the FI needs some work. I think PC has maps already for a basic stage 1 hop up. Also. What's with all these breather problems? Is it typical for sporty engines to puke oil? I run external krank vents on my Twin Cam and let the tubes hang below the frame. Never got any oil on my rear tire. | ||
| Rempss |
Think of the Race ECM as "re-jetting". Add a K&N filter, remove the snorkel (make sure to keep the sensor in the path on incoming air), add a slip-on muffler and re-jet (Race ECM) your bike - it will run great. Great Stage 1 kit. The Race ECM in conjuction with the PC(X) can be used to fine tune or add a lot of fuel if needed later. Search the Knowledge Vault or see the x1files.com for many ideas on air filters. I use a barrel type K&N on the plastic snorkel inside of the stock airbox, which I removed most of the backside of. I can post a picture if you like. I cannot tell you if it's better or not, I added so much at one time - it's hard to tell if it's the Big Bore and headwork or the breather hose off the timing hole (  ) that added so much power. Your breathers may "breath" oil at times. Mine did last year, mostly water & oil mix. You will want to remove the breather tube from the airbox to remove blow-by fumes from the intake, but route it to a catch can to keep oil/water from ruinig your day. I used the "fix" listed around here (chamfer the umbrella hole, drill out to oil drain hole), so far only a lot of almost clear water. But that's low RPM break in of the top end in NW Ohio this time of year 30-50 degrees. We'll see what happens after I run it >5000 RPM. I'm sure the FI could use some work, but I just have to defend "Buell is the only modern company who has managed to make FI worse tahn a carb" or soemthing like that posted here not long ago.  Jeff Should by a Dynorun to post in a week or so. | ||
| X1glider |
The quote, "Buell is the only modern company who has managed to make FI worse tahn a carb", definitely rings true for the Harley Big Twins. So replace Buell with H-D. It's been my experience with any fuel injected bike that they all only operate at 80-90% power and efficiency. The other day, our Easyrider's tuning center squeezed out another 9 HP from a CBR600 and smoothed things out all the way across the rpm range with the power commander. Someone had the money for a custom map obviously. I still believe you can beat a well tuned carb for drivability. | ||
| Clydeglide |
X1glider, On my wife's X1 a Race ECM was installed, intake manifold and ports matched, airbox gutted and muffler mostly gutted= 94 RWHP. With a dirty paper filter. The PCII/III can work but only if you have some one who has done many. Even so the cost/benefit ratio is on the sucky side. IMHO. Clyde | ||
| Sandmanx1 |
im rather new to working on bikes but so far everything seems pretty simple. my ? is where would i find out more about tuning an 01 x1 myself i refuse to go back to a dealer that goes out of its way to try and get more labor money out of you by telling you that your stock spark plugs have absolutly no gap and there is no way it could run when i just rode it in there and the plugs had never been removed from the bike | ||
| Lerider4 |
what does TPS stand for  and is that all that has to be done after installing the race ECM? | ||
| Rempss |
Get the service manual, it tells everything about standard tuning / repair. Ask here for anything above & beyond that. Lots of resources out here, if someone doesn't know I'm sure you will be led to the right place. Jeff Feels good to let out good rant doesn't it?  | ||
| X1glider |
TPS is a throttle position sensor. It's how a Buell determines load on an engine. The big twins have gotten away from solely relying on the TPS and also use a MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure) which is a more accurate way of determining engine load. Being new to the Buell design, I don't know it the carb models have a MAP sensor and since mine is FI I hope mine does. In the past week, I've learned that the only similarity between a Buell and a Harley is that it is an air cooled V-twin! I'll be getting the manual soon so I can update my knowledge for the "Buell Way." They all work the same but are thrown together differently. | ||
| Milehi |
Woo Hoo... I want to thank Aaron and Blake for their patience and great info (back in Feb.) about carb tuning at altitude for my '97 S1!!! I finally got around to installing the Buell header and D&D can. When I tore into the carb I found a real mess... I installed the jets and needle and made the adjustments as recommended (I'm finally old enough to follow instructions) and fired the puppy up. NOW I understand that torque thang! It's a completely different bike. I just got back from a 50 mile shake down run and I can't wipe that ear to ear smile off my face. Again many thanks guys! I can now say the S1 is a keeper! Sorry for the ramble... I think I'll call in sick tomorrow! | ||
| X1glider |
All right, my FI is starting to piss me off!  Just got back from lunch (I make my own weird hours) and over the 15 miles the bike had plenty of time to warm up. Still, when holding 4000 rpm, the bike will surge (up and down) kind of haphazardly and inconsistently, not all the time but every minute or so, like the ECM can't figure out what the ideal mixture is. At least I think it's my FI. I don't feel any indications of a a coil not firing. Any X1 owners know if this is normal? I hope not. Who works on these things for a living? I ask because I want to know as much as possible about the race ECM. I'm not in the habit of buying something I know nothing about and the Buell website ain't talkin' except for price. Does the aftermarket make an ECM for the X1? | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Other than the PCIII, not really. If your bike is still stock, the first things to check are: 1. Make sure your ignition timing is set correctly 2. Make sure your TPS is set correctly Race ECM vs. Stock According to Sporttwin
The charts never followed..... check out my FI tips here | ||
| Henrik |
X!glider - could be an intake leak ?? Henrik | ||
| S1blackie |
Question? What is a good set up for 42mm mikuni on a 96 s1 W/ thunderstorm heads with mild porting & valve job, stock pistons bore & cam Buell race ign.&exhaust,and force intake at sea level? I picked up the bike it had great pwr but coughed and spit thru the carb just off idle.like the stock bikes do when too lean from the factory. so I checked for a intake leak.It checks out okay tryed going up in pilot jet fm 20-22.5 better but still no fix.after the jet change the plugs looked fouled so I went back to orig size and adj pilot air. better still not cured. Oh and after opening throttle more at say 70mph there is pinging.I would appreciat any suggestions. | ||
| Blake |
S1blackie: Sounds like you are definitely running lean. Try raising the needle? Have you tried increasing the accelerator pump output? (a Mik has a pump right?) | ||
| Gcpoland |
Do you have the Mikuni Tuning Manual? If not, download it here; http://www.mikuni.com/carbtech/manuals/manuals.htm It is extremely easy to read and gives excellant advice on carb tuning. Probably one of the best, basic carb tuning booklets you will see. Gary Poland | ||
| X1glider |
Jose, thanx. Those tips just might help. I'll take the bike to the dealer ASAP along with your tips printed out. | ||
| Schemky |
CV40 Pass-Along Data; Just spent $170.00 for an 8723 DynoJet Kit. After removing my fuel tank and dissembling my carb for about the 20th time, I finally concluded my home-modified CV40 worked better than the Dyno-Kit. Following the advice listed on the discussion board, this is what worked (really well) for me: 45 pilot, air screw 2.5 turns out Stock 200 Main NOKK needle shimmed 0.075" Slide drilled Lightened slide spring With these settings, it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep the front tire on the ground in the first two gears. Throttle response is immediate, crisp, and nothing short of phenomenal. Roll on power is excellent. Called and got a return authorization to return the Dyno-kit. So long. | ||
| Blake |
Could someone please explain the benefits of clipping the stock spring? Do you clip it and then stretch it back to original length? That doesn't make sense, you've made the spring stiffer which would tend to lean the mixture when on the needle. Or do you clip it shorter and leave it shorter to allow the slide to initially lift with no resistance other than its own weight? That might produce improved throttle response, but it seams like it would also produce a discontinuity in the mixture during acceleration. Either way doesn't quite make sense to me. Both make the spring stiffer. | ||
| S1blackie |
Thanks, Blake,and Gary I will check out the effects of adjusting one then the other of two items. of course using the tuning manual | ||
| Lsr_Bbs |
Well, technically Blake the spring will not make the mixture leaner, per say. It controls the crossover of the slopes from the 2 circuits (low and high speed). But yes, by clipping it, your making the spring stronger and slowing the transition....I've never understood this one either. Truth be told, I did some unscientific experimenting w/ a buddy's harley; if you didn't tell him, he couldn't tell whether the spring had been changed or not (from stock, to the lighter SE, or a clipped stock one). I've had the same thing w/ my CV44 X1...I can't tell a real difference between the stock spring or the lighter SE one. Neil Garretson X0.5 | ||
| Schemky |
Slide Spring: I did not clip mine, but substituted a spring with less cross-section but with the same length as the stocker. Admittedly, it is difficult to discern between the two springs, however, the low-speed response (2,000 - 3,000 rpm) on my M2 seems more immediate with the lighter spring. | ||
| Gcpoland |
The original idea was to clip it short and leave it that way. It was done originally to help the initial transition. Beacause of the lack of tuning parts, and the original lean setting of these carbs, it was a jury rig of a fix to help. The myth has carried on and even with more parts available people still do it. It allows a slightly over rich mixture at transition which helps a Harley motor run better than the way lean setting. Mikuni has done something simular by putting an extremely rich acclerator pump nozzle on its HSR 42 carbs. The momentary rich condition can cover up a lot of sloppy tuning in other areas. If you have someone set up a carb properly, you can get rid of most of these cover up aids. But if you are selling a carb or tune up kit to the general public, it is better to add the fudge factors,(rich) and keep happy customers, than to have support lines jammed with people who don't know how to do a proper set up. Just ask DynoJet. Gary Poland | ||
| Schemky |
Excuse Me But, I stuck this here since this is a frequented area. Does anyone know what is going to replace the X1/M2/S3 series? I heard a Buell press release is forthcoming in June or July of 02, with new model introductions. I just wonder what's coming. | ||
| X1glider |
I'll be damned! My FI isn't bothering me now. I decided to downgrade to 89 oct from 93 oct at the gas station last night and the bike runs fine today. No stutters or surges even when cold.  I can't believe it was bad gas because that would mean that the 4 tanks of 93 were all bad. I always thought this fix was unusual, since after I did all the mods on the FXDX, the bike ran like crap on 93 and less so on 89. It popped and had less power. When I tried the 87, it ran like a champ. I got better mileage and power (according to my last set of dyno runs.) I've been using the 87 oct for over a year now. Saving lots of money too!  I'll still take the X1 to the dealer on Saturday to check the TPS setting and timing. But does my octane good forture sound strange to anyone else? | ||
| Blake |
X1G, That sounds REAL strange, especially with you being at near sea level there in Houston. I would strongly advise against running lower grade octane fuel in a high compression Buell engine, especially as temperatures warm up. For now you might be okay, since the cooler ambient air (78oF in Kilgore today ) helps fight detonation. But it just isn't worth the risk of putting holes in your pistons. In another month with temperatures climbing steadily towrds triple digits, you will be gambling with life of your engine. Maybe you should try a different filling station? Did you have the TPS rezeroed yet? |
