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Spitfire1980
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey guys, hoping someone has a clue what happened to the bike. I went for a ride yesterday, seemed fine. When I went to put the cover on the bike I hear this very loud electrical sound. I put the key into and the check engine light comes on and it throws a code. I start the bike, it seems to fire up ok. I cycled threw the codes, a communications error, a o2 sensor error and a fuel error (idiot me didn't write down the code). I ran out for some food, when I got back the bike was quiet. Figured it might be ok, came out this morning and the battery is dead. I have the battery on the charger (the one I got from Shorai, so its the right charger)... but does anyone have any idea what might have caused the drain?

I really hope the new owner honors our warranty.
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Oddball
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Loud electrical sound? Like a snap or crack? Anything get in contact with the battery? Loose terminal?

I've seen a loose connection melt and ignite a battery on a nightster.
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Spitfire1980
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounded almost like a motor trying to run, the battery connections were tight when I pulled it out this morning.
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Snacktoast
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 04:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would guess that there is a short in the wiring of your fuel pump that is causing the pump to run constantly.
If you remove the fuel pump from the frame (only way to inspect for this), there is a cluster of 4 wires at the base of the pump on the fuel side. If you slide the black rubber boot off this connection, this area is the most likely culprit.
I would look there first.
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Snacktoast
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I should also add that the pump will cycle for the first few minutes after a hot shutdown - this is normal.
If your pump is running longer than that, it's probably your issue.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

^ or it could be just the fuel pump relay is stuck closed.
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Spitfire1980
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 07:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I got the battery back in and it registers a p0193 fuel pressure sensor fault. But the bike starts and seems to run ok.
Where is the pump located? Is it behind the exhaust side fairing?
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Snacktoast
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 07:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The pump is in the frame. You need to remove the swingarm to access it.
Did you check your connection for the pressure sensor at the fuel pressure sensor on the fuel rail in the airbox? Its located right by the showerhead injectors.
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Snacktoast
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And the bike may run ok, even if the problem that I previously described was present. However, the pump would run continuously after shutdown until it killed the battery.
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Spitfire1980
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I checked the connections, everything seems tight. I'm nit sure I can pull the swing arm myself. Any other things you think I could check?
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Spitfire1980
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 07:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The sound seems like it's coming from the front if the bike, but the rear buy the swing arm... it has almost a high pitched squeal to it.
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Snacktoast
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is probably a fuel pump fuse or relay in the tail section fuse block. Pull it out and see if it quits.
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Spitfire1980
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I pulled the fuse and it stopped, the relays dint do anything. So it's the pump, just wish it was easier to get to.
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Terrys1980
Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2015 - 08:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Can the fuel pump not be accessed by lifting the bike and unbolting the shock from the frame?

It can be done like this on the 1125 without removing the swingarm.
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Spitfire1980
Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the 1190? I've pulled about every plug under the seat and relay in the back and nothing stops the pump from running. Is there a separate fuel pump relay I may have missed?
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Pmjolly
Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2015 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The fuel pump has four wires going to it. I believe there is a connector under the seat. BK is for ground. O/GY wire comes from a 15 amp fuse. BN/Y wire splits into two pins on the ECM labeled Fuel Pump Output. These are pins 27 and 28 on ECM J2. Y/R wire goes to pin 11 on the ECM labeled Low Fuel Warning. This is on ECM J1. There is no relay to operate the fuel pump. It is all done by the ECM. If I have time, I will be pulling my own 1190RX fuel pump to make repairs causing the low fuel light to stay on. I'll have better info if I can get to my own this weekend.
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Snacktoast
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 01:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What happened to "I pulled the fuse and it stopped, the relays dint do anything. So it's the pump, just wish it was easier to get to." ????
Did the pump stop running when you pulled the fuse or not?
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Spitfire1980
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 08:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So far the only thing that stops the pump is pulling the fuse. I pulled the plugs from the ECM and that did not stop it from running either. Is it possible there is a short in the control wires from the ECM to the fuel pump?
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Hughlysses
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 08:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It sure sounds like it must be a problem in the wiring.

IIRC, components controlled by the ECM are wired so they get power all the time; the path to ground is controlled by the ECM. If the ground wire is shorted to the frame somewhere, it would cause the pump to run all the time. That seems consistent with what you observed; pulling the fuse would kill power. Pulling the ECM would eliminate the ground connection, yet the pump still runs. Therefore, the ground connection must be shorted to the frame somewhere between the connection at the pump and the connection at the ECM.
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Figorvonbuellingham
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 08:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Is it wired to run if the relay fails? Relay just shuts pump off when pressure is met? Bad relay? Try swapping relays with a known good one? I'm just throwing stuff on the wall here.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

^ See PMjolly's post above: the ECM controls the fuel pump directly; no relay involved.
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Snacktoast
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 09:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

At key off, the only thing that can allow the pump to run is a short. See my posts above. You need to remove the pump to inspect the wiring on the pump.
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Pmjolly
Posted on Wednesday, August 12, 2015 - 04:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

From what others have been reporting, the wiring on the fuel pumps is not the best. There are some connectors on the pump assembly that can have bad connections causing the low fuel light to stay on. That is what I am looking for when I pull mine out. As far as the wiring to the pump assembly, I do not know how it works, exactly. I hope to understand it better after I pull mine. The pump assembly has 12 volts positive and ground going to it at all times. It also has a wire for low fuel, and a wire that hits two pins on the ECM for 'Fuel Pump Output'. The 12 volts comes right off a fuse that does nothing else. The ground is connected to the front cylinder, and is shared by the voltage regulator, starter solenoid, both ignition coils, the key switch, the ignition relay, and the horn. I picked up new o-rings for my fuel pump from my local Harley / Buell shop. They are the same as 1125. I plan on pulling my starter this weekend, also. There have been issues with corrosion when they have been wet. I want to be proactive rather than reactive. It's an easy fix if it is corroded, and also an easy prevention if it is not. A little high temp silicon sealant will keep moisture out.
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Spitfire1980
Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2015 - 01:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bike went into a shop this morning, I don't really have the means to remove the swing arm myself. I did find a copy of the 2008 1125R electrical diagnostic manual online, I'll attach it if anyone is interested.
But to confirm what you guys are saying, the fuel pump description and operation states that when the BN/Y wire is shorted to the ground it causes the fuel pump to run continuously even when the motor is not running. I figure the bikes are similar enough that this probable is right.
And thanks to everyone for all the help, it nice to have a community to turn to when there are issues.
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