Hmm I don't know, with the TC turned it can be hard to keep the front end down on the RX. If they geared it like the CR with those high bars and more upright seating are gonna lead to a lot more huliganism on a bike that is EASY to wheelie. No brake ducts up front. I think its gonna be hard to keep those bikes in stock. GO EBR!
The CR had a different swingarm than the R, but that was because the axle was in a fixed position and couldn't be adjusted in/out to provide the correct tension and angle. The RX and SX both appear to use the same swingarm, and given that the axle can be adjusted, they can likely simply just change the sprocket and update the ECM to change the gear ratios.
Hmm... I was hoping it would look a little closer to the Typhon concept with the twin headlights ala XB style. While the stacked lights looks really good on the RX they look a bit out of place on the SX.
Belt works for me as well. But I don't think Charlie and Ewan would take a belted bike Long Way Up or Over or Through. The spare does store nicely in the top box and is a snap to change on the side of the road. Oops, did I say snap? If I need to fit 1125 parts to the AX to make it belt, so be it. I know, I know, they won't fit.
From a production standpoint...a very smart motorcycle.
Same headlight as RX.
Same fans as RX.
Same major componentry as RX.
It looks to be, quite literally, an RX without the fairing; with different "pods" for the fans; with different bars; and without a brake duct.
Economies of scale, folks. And personally - as a CR owner - I LOVE IT.
Keep in mind folks - this is a SMALL COMPANY. They're not quite back in the days when they could all get in a van to go to lunch...but they'd all still fit in a bus.
The WHOLE COMPANY. Not just a department or two. ALL of 'em. "Variations" are going to be key for a couple years, as opposed to different "families" (such as Sportster/ Dyna / Softail / Touring, for example). And...this is an excellent variation in my eyes.
The AX? I can't wait to see it. I hope - REALLY hope - it won't have shaft drive. Go ride one. Lower gears...they torque sideways. Annoying, at the very least. Belt would be nice...but I can always learn how to care for a chain if I need to
Small company? Fit in a bus? I was at the factory two weeks ago and the asked Erik how many employees, he wasn't sure but one of the office girls said the has 160 employees and are still hiring daily!!!
I've never seen a bus carry 160 people! Folks this new EBR company is on the move and growing! Exciting times again in East Troy Wisconsin!
Yesterday, about noon EDT, Motorcyclist posted a pic saying they'd been called down for a big EBR reveal to Facebook. A few minutes later they posted 3 shots of the SX to FB. 2 hours later the official EBR FB page started posting "teaser" pics implying get ready for the big reveal. Things seemed pretty unsynchronized. It's also odd that there's still nothing about the SX on the EBR webpage yet.
I think it will outsell the RX by a wide margin. The sportbike segment has been pretty stale though way better than 08-11 stretch but still the naked segment and adventure segments are where the consumers are currently going.
I get the headlight cowl from a production standpoint. The typhon concept sides looked a bit more put together than the pods and exhaust heat shield shown here. I'm sure the SX is lighter weight then the typhon.
I doubt the SX is thousands cheaper. It's only missing a little plastic from the RX from what I see.
Just say no to shaft drive. I remember making a shaft drive bunny hop with the throttle. Not something I want in a corner. The more I watch the more I think the AX is going to be a lot like this with more ground clearance, a longer wheelbase, and just a hint of windscreen. Of course luggage options.
Then you lose suspension travel and add a T. (AXT)
Mark- I'm with you about the secondary muffler on the AX. The thing is actually a Helmoltz resonator for one pipe (no flow) and a secondary muffler for the other pipe (flow). One thing I was thinking they could do- split it into 2 smaller units, one on each side of the bike. That might help avoid the asymmetrical hard bag deal.
They've got to keep it user $16,000 to make it work . . .
I suspect LOTS of folks are going to be REALLY surprised with the AX.
I'd imagine a LOT of people will be really excited if the SX is under $16k. I can imagine EBR is starting to really get some economies of scale as production has ramped up so I won't be surprised if this price is accurate.
Obviously the AX is going to need some much bigger changes relative to the RX than we see on the SX. New rear subframe and seat, an upright windshield and some amount of fairing in front, bag mounts, and (hopefully) a revised exhaust. I can't wait to see it. Court- I'm guessing you HAVE seen it?
Who would have thought, less than 5 years after the "Buell has been murdered" announcement, we would have read the following quote in Cycle World:
The EBR 1190SX, therefore, will be a competitive machine in a highly competitive naked-bike segment, taking on the exotic likes of the Aprilia Tuono V4 APRC ABS, BMW S1000R and KTM 1290 Super Duke R. The SXís predicted 161 hp/415-lb. power-to-weight ratio is better than the Apriliaís 148/455, the BMWís 151/432 and the KTMís 152/445 by a good margin. Party in the engineering house!
It's a stripped down RX, exactly what a naked should be.
*All of this "I want the AX" "the AX" talk cracks me up. I certainly understand the desire to see what EBR has up its sleeves, but the SX was just released!*
I don't mean to sound like a douche, but there's a little bit of "who cares" to this. Everybody knew this was coming, and they literally could have bolted a headlight and a bar riser to an AX and called it a naked bike....which is pretty much what the CR was. It's not rocket science, that's why everyone makes a naked bike, and everyone knew this would be next for EBR.
We're all stuck in 2010 still, and back in 2010, we were waiting on the barracuda, and more importantly, we were waiting on the 1125 powered Ully. Hell, the media was asking for that when the ST launched. We got the "new 1125", complete with Barracuda side fans in the 1190 bikes- awesome, now everyone's still waiting on the really fast Ully- The AX will require a lot more engineering and actual fabrication work. Fuel range, triple tail, luggage, sub frame beefed up, all of that sort of thing. So far, what we've seen is a really nice, really hotted up 1125R. I know, all different parts, parts don't fit each other, whatever. Flame away. I love it, but that's what it is.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the 1190, but there was never a rotax powered Ully, so an AX will be pretty close to a clean sheet "new" bike, the one we've been waiting on since 2008. That's why everyone says "AX" every time EBR says...anything. That's not a knock on EBR at all, I think they're doing everything right. hardcore sport bike first, establish the brand, go from there. Logical.
And I'm with Reepicheep- I don't need a beak, and I don't need much off road either. Some 1125R style wind protection, and a whale tail and you have something nobody else makes right now- a decent sized sport tourer, which is what 90% of riders use "adventure" tourers for anyway.
And of course, a tall naked one for the big, bad dirty guys. I'm just saying, when they do an XT/AST, there should be a fairing, or at least an option.
I have an 1125 and an XT- several of the guys here have both. You combine those two and you have the uberbike.....
There's no way I would drop 19K on a sportbike, just as a practical matter. They build the uberbike? That's a no brainer...sell both bikes, sell the wife's car, sell a kidney....
The SX will likely be priced right near the RX...since it's basically the same.
TC (and wheelie control?) came out with the RX.
I'm sure ABS is in the works - they use the same sensors. Just a matter of packaging the 'brain'. And I suspect...wait...I won't be surprised, when the AX comes in at a higher price tag than the RX/SX.
I don't give a rat's ass what a headlight LOOKS like...as long as it puts light on the road where I need it.
2nd the ugly. Don't need another futuristic Robocop looking bike, IMHO of course. I don't care for the sharp angular body work like other makers. I prefer smoother , rounder lines. The RX is a thing of beauty. The SX, not so much.
That's because if the 1190SX keeps the engine from the 1190RX it'll be good for 101.6 ft-lbs of torque and 185 hp. Numbers like that in streetfighter form mean instant arrest for anyone lacking perfect impulse control. We're in trouble. I hope these guys are right about the motor! Why de-tune the SX??? They didn't de-tune the CR and honestly I won't buy a de-tuned naked bike. With the RX motor producing over a hundred foot pounds of torque they can't use the excuse we "tuned it for torque"}}
I hope these guys are right about the motor! Why de-tune the SX??? They didn't de-tune the CR and honestly I won't buy a de-tuned naked bike. With the RX motor producing over a hundred foot pounds of torque they can't use the excuse we "tuned it for torque"
I doubt they would, becuase the RX is a razor on the track and a weapon on the street, or a weapon on the track and blast ( no pun intended) on the street. They could give the SX a little bit different character by tuning the wheelie/TC to allow for more hooliganism. They could also get a way with less over all HP and even more torque if they wanted to. I doubt they would though.}
I tried posting a comparison between a 1190SX without being detuned for "greater low end torque" and every naked bike I could find and I keep loosing the info. The just of what I found The SX would have more torque and more HP than any other bike in its class. An American bike probably has not had that title since the 1968 Sportster.
The reaction to the looks of the SX on the non Buell/EBR boards is lukewarm.
I've seen a few negative posts (apparently by riders who think that anything that isn't a chrome-plated cruiser is inherently repulsive), but here are a couple from a thread on ADVrider in the last 24 hours:
"WOW ! What a stunner. I rode the KTM 1290 last week and was impressed cant wait to swing a leg over this one ..."
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... And to me, that bike is gorgeous. "
^^It's interesting to me how we live in a time where instantaneous knowledge from multiple sources is the rule, yet people still manage to be uninformed about the things they're ignorantly railing against.
My only disappointment with is that I was waiting to trade in my 1125R on a Typhon looking SX.
I would agree to some extent for selfish reasons because I liked the looks of the Typhon, being a Buell fan.
However, If I was Erik, and Building a BRAND. Which is what he is doing, I would not have it look like my last company creation, I would differentiate it. The EBR's already look enough like the 1125 buell with the frame and swing arm looking like they came from it. Which they did not, different parts there.
Maybe a few model years in, I would restyle or have models that had the dual headlights.
Another thing, the Buell dual headlights were not exactly know as spectacular performers at night.
This new headlight looks like it will work better, and at night that will be whats important.
I would love to hear Classax, or LJM's opinion of the lights at night or anyone else who has experience with both.
This new headlight looks like it will work better, and at night that will be whats important.
The new headlight is LED, which is pretty cool. Here's what Ride Apart had to say about it in their article after the 1190RX introduction:
Headlights are another area where EBR is innovating. Itís not the first to go full-LED, but it is the first to max-out the Federal governmentís maximum brightness regulation. It reaches the 2,000 lumen limit by using high-tech Cree LEDs, the same youíll find in high-end flashlights from companyís like Fenix or Four Sevens.
I'd say it's bound to work a lot better than the Buell dual headlight setup.
^ It would be pretty cool if it was "unintentional". Unlike the days of the Mothership, that would have probably required approval of a committee of 20 people including 8 attorneys, I can imagine at EBR it might go more like Erik saying "Heck, we've got all these media types showing up at Indy tomorrow, pull an SX off the line, take it down there and show it to them."
What do you think of the price? You mentioned it must be under $16k to work. I guessed $17,900 and was too high. Do you expect some price reduction or is the price that will likely result in selling out 100% of the production capability? My guess was simply that but you have more knowledge regarding pricing strategies for a Mo co.
^ A couple of years ago, there was a dealer-specific EBR website that I found and posted links to here. It had a lot of info for prospective dealers and one of the things it said was that EBR bike MSRP's would be set so that there was ample profit for the dealer and "bargaining room" on the price.
I doubt they dealers have had to do much bargaining yet, but it'll be interesting to see if people start finding deals at some dealers over the next year or so.
With the EBR 2-YEAR WARRANTY (something I haven't seen discussed much) . . . my thinking is that the EBR is going to be an excellent product that's likely to provide a significant;y higher level of customer satisfaction than most/many owners have ever been accustomed to.
There's not been any discussion yet . . but expect an innovative and amazing support system behind the EBR products.
You should see the Force majeure clause in my contracts at the United Nations. It makes it clear that the facility is sovereign territory, not the USA and, therefore may be subject to incidents of international unrest such as small arms and artillery fire . . mines . . fragmentation devices and so forth that they, alone, are incidental to the operation and not just cause for delay of construction.
Ok . . . so we toss in some body armor with the hard hat and we're good to go.
Well . . . we have a problem. As a result of NOT being located on U.S. soil the wonderful laws of contract, equity and the U.C.C. pretty much don't apply.
So . . .let's say the French had me rewire their entire comm/elec/security and decided not to pay . . no recourse.
So . . I asked (this was about 10 years ago when I was doing this stuff in earnest) for a "deposit".
The next day I am having lunch with the guy and he hands me a briefcase . . . yep, right out of the movies . . . .plum chucked full of $100 bills for the amount of our quoted price.
I took it back to our Controller and when he asked "how's their credit" . . I flipped it open and told him . . EXCELLENT.
Now . . . back to your regularly scheduled discussion . . my car is packed . . . I'm off to spend the 4th with James Taylor & wife Kim . . and to get lost for a month . . . best wishes for a great holiday!
I still am not getting into this bike. Like the BMW S1000R, it looks like a half baked attempt to strip a super bike and sell a naked. This compares to the, we built this as a naked bike since day 1, look of the KTM 1290. Right now I'd still spend my imaginary naked bike money on the KTM (actually I'd buy a Hypermotard SP) over the EBR or BMW.
Nothing I'd rather have for track days than a RX but the looks of this are not getting me exited. Say what you want, the way a bike looks is some of the appeal to me. It's why I bought a Husky TR650 and not a Suzuki DR650.
Look at it this way Gschuette there are lots of Headlights out there and the tail section unbolts.
I made that mistake with the S1 I would not look at one just because of the license plate location on the stock bike. I am sure in 2 years Al will have a whole section of parts to change to looks of the EBR's.
Gschuette - "not a Suzuki DR650" you cut me deep....
The SX is starting to grow in me, I'm not crazy about the "thin" looking head light but I'm sure I would forget about this as soon as took one out for a rest ride. I still favor the looks of the 1125CR.
I just got back from about 800 miles in Wild, Wonderful West Virginia over the weekend on my CR. Man, do I LOVE having a belt that I don't have to worry about mucking with, carrying a can of chain wax everywhere I go, hearing "funny noises" from the chain, getting dirt impregnated grease all over my bike & so on. I really like the bike, but chains are a PITA. Also, where's the brake duct? Hooligans need caliper cooling too!