Since it seems pretty certain that the 2014 1190RX is going to be released this fall, what do you think it will look like?
Yea, we know it's going to be a sport bike based on the EBR 1190RS but with less-expensive suspension components (Showa vs Ohlins), and probably Surlyn vice carbon fiber bodywork, but do you think it'll look just like the 1190RS otherwise? I'm thinking not. I'm betting EBR has some styling tricks up their sleeve. This bike needs to make an IMPRESSION when it hits the showrooms.
Could it look more like the Buell B2 Baracuda prototypes? IMHO, that bike had better-looking bodywork than the 1190RS.
I wonder if it's sitting in a crate in a warehouse somewhere, or if HD actually scrapped it?
I'm starting to think Hughlysses has a point though, The 1125 style bodywork would be much more practical for a sport tourer, with the wide frontal section and whatnot, and it would add some aesthetic choices to the range.
Great idea. For that matter, I wonder if it would be feasable for EBR to buy the rights to the 1125R from HD and sell new ones alongside the 1190's. It would be like our 600....and with a Ulysses style tale would be an excellent sport tourer. Can't wait to see what they actually do.
Did anybody else catch the little 1098 scoops under the headlights?
I wonder if it was about the B2 or the 1190RX guess we will never know. Nope, just a confused soul, not knowing how the Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.) works.
OMG...that just validated every terrible thing I said about the HD execs when Buell was killed off, and pissed me off all over again.
20lbs lighter? 10 more HP? Why would anyone want that? Sportbikes are gay, (just like NASCAR) let's spend a fantastic sum of money to just kill it off, that way I can spend the "savings" on more assless chaps and leather tassles for my super kewl Fat Bob.
Really? Fkuc Harley and the horse they rode in on. I was just starting to get over my irrational hatred and distrust of the The Motor Company too... I'm gonna have to stop reading this stuff....
Every time I look at my R I remember how much it's value dropped when HD made it's move and I get angry all over again. BTW it's in the garage so I see it every day. I still have a Sportster that I need to get back together and sell. This requires me to make trips to the HD dealer and I have to bite my tongue while I'm there.
I'm with you man, I'll always miss my Sporty, but walking into the dealer to get an oil filter for the 1125 made me break out in hives. I got a rash and a facial tick. Which sucks, the old guy behind the counter was pretty cool, I just.....yeah. Yeah no.
Good catch. I've been comparing photos of the 1190RS. No remote rear shock adjuster on this one, so I'm thinking that's a Showa rear shock, and there's no "auxiliary" muffler hanging off the right side like the 1190RS, so that's difference.
The dash is covered up so you can't see much of the front. Looks like they just drained the oil, and there's a bunch of instrumentation lines run to a junction block on top of airbox. Interesting.
If someone makes a post and deletes it, you'll see them listed as the "last poster" at the top level of the forum until someone else makes a post in that forum. Court's done that at least a couple of times recently. Example from the "EBR & Buell in the News" forum thread on the big EBR purchase by Hero:
If you check that thread now you'll see no posts by Court.
Court must be sitting at a computer somewhere reading our speculation about EBR sweating, shaking and saying "MUST NOT POST TO BADWEB...MUST NOT POST TO BADWEB...MUST NOT POST TO BADWEB...AHHHGGGHHH!!!!"
That sure looks like a Rotax stator (or whatever) cover to me.
I don't care who assembles it, if it came from the HD factory, the "Thunderstorm" was an HD motor. If it came from Austria in a crate marked "Rotax", it's a Rotax. Whether it's in a Street Rod, Mille, Can-Am, 1125 or 1190. Court spanked me like a little bitch about a year ago in my first post to BADWEB about how EBR would be useing their own engines....my ass is still sore, yet....still seeing Rotaxery.
When Cagiva was having some issue with Ducati and couldn't source the 998 engine, they ran the Suzuki TLR engine in their Bimota WSBK entry...they didn't call it a Bimota engine.
I stand by what I said a year ago- It makes zero sense for EBR to dump the Helicon. If for no other reason than that they can't afford to start a new engine from scratch at this early stage in the company's development.
I would love for EBR to rule the world with a US built engine...built by Polaris or Mercury, better yet in house...but I'll believe it when I see it.
My understanding of the engine (which is admittedly a mixture of facts, speculation, and rumors) is that EBR acquired the complete design and rights to manufacture the Helicon engine after Buell closed down. I believe EBR is sourcing all the parts needed to build these engines from their own chosen suppliers, and as they themselves said on Facebook this week, "We are building them in East Troy!" So the engine is still technically a Helicon, it's just that Rotax has nothing to do with it at this point.
If my memory serves me correctly, the helicon engine was sourced to Rotax to assist in some engineering and to manufacture a engine of Erik Buell's specifications and design and EBR now has full rights to. So the EBR 1190cc may have started as the Helicon engine, but it is an EBR engine and is much changed from the engine that was run in the Buell 1125R/CRs
From BuellXB.com posted by "cgreenwalt" who apparently works for EBR based on other posts he has made.
"Its an EBR based engine that is simply cast by rotax. The engine assembly happens at EBR and we can expect the casting to be done in the U.S. in the near future as well. EBR owns 100% of this design, not just the rights to call it what we want. "
and another post in same thread
"As of now, Hero isn't making anything for EBR motorcycles."
"Also, yes AK Addict we will be revealing at least on bike at the AIM expo but we may not be at full scale production by that time. Late stage prototypes are underway right now."
"I'll post any information that I can when Erik and the guys upstairs give me the go ahead."
"As a design engineer AT EBR, I'm going to let all of you know that not a single one of those pictures above is a representation of the concept of the RX, SX, or AX. EBR is extremely careful with keeping confidential information from the public until the desired release date. Keep your eyes out around the fourth quarter of this year for the real deal. The typhoon was not created by anyone at EBR whatsoever."
Well, no matter what it looks like, what headlights it has or where the motor came from, I hope Erik makes a special model that gives credit to Geoff May and his fortitude. I think that guy should receive some sort of award for what he's done for EBR and the 1190RS. Geoff remains the great American underdog but when he does win (it will happen) the dude will probably ball his eyes out with Erik because they are both deeply tied into this machine.
+1 on what M2typhoon said. Geoff has quietly stuck by EBR and has helped develop the 1190RS for racing and eventually into a "mainstream" production bike.
Danny got a lot of the publicity after Geoff put in the prep work but then went to greener pastures that he may deserve. But I'm a Geoff May fan because of his dedication. One would think he, too has had other opportunities, but has elected to stay with EBR. A Geoff May edition would be appropriate.
I sent that link to the dealer page to the HD dealer in Santa Fe. The sales manager replied almost immediately "We are a Harley dealer, and Harley no longer makes Buell motorcycles. Erik Buell Racing is a new company with fantastic bikes. But Harley no more."
I understand his position. I live in hog heaven, New Mexico. This means my closest dealer is in Plano, TX 10 hours away. I feel like I'm going to have to move to Texas and become Jim Dugger's neighbor.
I also believe that Erik should have signature parts available for the new bikes. Similar to the defunked Pro-Series equipment. Not so much the run of the mill undertail kits or fairing stuff but some trick equipment like a carbon ram air system (similar to a Bimota) and similar parts. I don't think that his parts should expand much beyond performance packages and some trick carbon bits to keep it classy. Let the after market sector fetch the other bits.
Oh my Jesus just seen that bike new to buells in general but seen the 1190 and literally called the dealer closet to my house I want it more then a man has wanted anything more in his life and I've got friends who ride "hayabusas" and gsxrs and try to make fun of my v twin and this will indeed put a sock in there mouth. It is like a fine wine I'm seriously in love
It also has adjustable levels - I would imagine: Slip. Yaw. Adjustable HP reduction % when you reach the adjustable slip and / or yaw threshold.
Just like tuning the ECM for the right power at the right time...this is like the anti-ECM. Tune it for the right amount of anti-power, but only at the right moment. At the correct aggressiveness - don't want it to whack the door shut and upset the chassis, don't want to be too gradual and have it not help when needed.
On the engine thing...so basically they're going to cast their own copies of the Helicon? Interesting......sort of like Hyosung buying the rights to the SV650 engine from Suzuki and making their own indistinguishable lump...same difference.
SirWadsalot, it would be more like Hyosung working hand in hand with Suzuki to design and build a 650 motor to Hyosung specs, then Hyosung taking over production of that motor using many of the same parts from the same suppliers Suzuki used when they built them.
@Reepicheep- Yep, EB designed it.... If I'm not mistaken, Suzuki actually built an engine plant in Korea and Hyosung ended up taking it over at some point, but that whole thing is a closely guarded secret, there are many versions of that story and Zook ain't talkin'! I just meant even though it's still the same engine Suzuki was building, it really is a Hyosung mill, and still gets the SV reputation for being bulletproof.....i.e. same engine Rotax was building, you can call that an EBR engine. As long as they're casting and building it in-house, that's intellectually fair game to me. US made mill, and still the proven Rotax type design, can't go wrong! I just didn't find "It's not a rotax engine, it's an EBR engine." to be an acceptable answer.
An EBR refinement of a Harley Davidson funded Buell and Rotax joint redesign of a Rotax motor.
IIRC, the Steve Anderson article on Buell's closure said that Buell funded the design and development of the Helicon on their own with profits from the XB's. Also, I thought the engine was basically a "clean sheet" design. I'm sure it shares some features/components with other Rotax engines, but it's pretty unique in most regards.
Apparently, it would be "wrong" for them to point out where your post is inaccurate.
Back to the thread topic, I jusst found that the dealer list linked above has been taken down at EBR. That link now gets you a page that says "Sorry about that, we can't find the page you're looking for".
Hopefully that means a major EBR.com update is in the works...
OK, got bored yesterday afternoon and decided to try and identify all the differences I could between the 1190RS and the teaser photo of what appears to be the new 1190RX:
1- passenger seat 2- different mirrors with thinner stems (no integrated turn signals?) 3- different radiator fan orientation (more up/back vs. down/out) 4- different rear shock, no remote adjuster (Showa? has a dark blue spring) 5- passenger footpegs
You can compare this photo to detail shots of the 1190RS and pick out the above points. I guess the most interesting thing I'd never noticed before is the radiator fan orientation. If you compare a left side photo of the 1190RS you can see it's very different.
William, I think you're right. It makes sense that the radiator/cooling fan arrangement will be more like the B2 than the 1190RS. Supposedly, the radiators on the RS are VERY expensive due to their configuration. The RX radiators will have to be something easier and less expensive to fabricate, so maybe they'd already figured it out on the B2.
@Hugh- I would rather be corrected than slather bad info all over the interwebs. As "the Buell Guy" on sportbikez.net, I consider myself an ambassador of the breed. If I'm gonna educate the UJM guys about real men's bikes, I need good info. Feel free to correct me in the most sarcastic way possible, on any matter. I like to debate and argue a bit, but I'm not a Troll. (Compared to you I'm a buelltard.) It's never wrong to educate someone. It is wrong to threadjack though! Sorry, I tend to ramble....
Back to it-
It panned out in another EBR thread that the radiators are custom built by a Spanish(?) GP parts supplier. I want to say this came from the guy running the Typhon project. He said they sourced the radiators from this Spanish(?) GP team supplier, the same as EBR did for the RS, and they're trying to develop a cheaper solution before they market the Typhon kit. Makes sense that EBR would as well, for their mass market bikes.
That fan orientation was the first thing I noticed in that pic. I've been of the opinion the RX would just be a stripper RS with plastic bodywork. If this fan orientation is any indication, that's gonna at least necessitate different fairings. If that's going to be the naked one, it will be a totally different "outline" from the Typhon, as well.
It wouldn't hurt my feelings if it looked more like the B2.
Jason- Glad you've got a thick skin. I just don't think some people who also try to promote the brand (and I ain't talking about Froggy) realize how they come across sometimes.
Interesting about the radiator. I had heard a couple of years ago from a Buell enthusiast/friend with a background in similar products that the RS radiators were difficult to build due to the fact that the headers/tanks aren't straight and the tubes do not enter them in a perpendicular direction. I think the RS radiators just reflect what you do on a "no holds barred/price is not a consideration" motorcycle, while whatever they put on the RX will be the best that can be mass-manufactured.
It looks like the RX going to have very different front lighting from the B2, but I think you're right that it may be very similar to the B2 in other areas. I also don't think it's just going to be an RS with plastic fairings and less-expensive suspension components.
Hmm, the closure announcement for Buell came on October 15, 2009. The first day of the AIMExpo, where EBR says they're going to host their dealers later this year, is October 16, 4 years to the day after the closure.
Seems like pretty good odds that's when they'll announce the new model(s).
I try to come across as "Look, we're competative now, give us a chance, you'll be pleasantly surprised", as opposed to "Screw you homos and yer japbikes"
A Wankel EBR a few years down the road wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, given the E.B. obsession with weight and handling characteristics. Rotary engines are tiny in size compared to their power production.
The Norton NRV classic racebikes have to take big wight penalties to make up for it...wrap fuel in frame around that....
Let me rephrase that, I think it's highly, extremely unlikely, but it's a fit in that "decidedly different" sort of way. Given 10 or 20 years down the road and a huge R&D budget? Why not? It would make a powerful and very lightweight alternative to the standard 600 supersports on the market....or even just a kewl concept bike.
In real world "we have to make bikes, race, and stay in business" terms? No way.
Just from a pragmatic standpoint, if this was my problem to solve, I'd start with the RS (like they did), then come up with the "80% as good for 50% as much" version (the RS), then create a naked version of that one (hopefully like the XB S bikes, which really were naked standards, as opposed to the CR bikes which were really unfaired sportbikes), then do the adventure bike.
I'd think the first three could be cranked out pretty quickly. The adventure bike could come out quickly as well if it was just a tarted up naked bike with a beak. Or you could try and make it a technology tour-de-force and really put some time into making it special, as the "problem envelope" for an adventure bike can be completely different than that of a sport bike.
Who knows which path EBR will take. Being a small company with limited resources, the obvious and easy path would be to throw a beak, hard luggage, and semi-knobby tires on the naked bike and call it an adventure bike. Not that imaginative, but it would be a really great bike. An adventure bike is really the natural evolution of the naked standard...
Who knows which path EBR will take. Being a small company with limited resources, the obvious and easy path would be to throw a beak, hard luggage, and semi-knobby tires on the naked bike and call it an adventure bike. Not that imaginative, but it would be a really great bike.
Um...have you ever met Erik?
Keep in mind - this is a company who is now campaigning their own traction control system on the race bikes.
I'm sure there are plenty of other fun tricks in the wings, just waiting for their cue to come onstage and show themselves...
Yes, +1 on Steve. Right now the 250 classes are growing fast. It's a cheap way to get into racing/track riding. Unfortunately I hear some guys are not following the rules and putting money into pumping up the HP. Whatever, it would be good to compete with the regular guys, like in WERA, that want competition. I got a little personal problem right now but soon as this is settled I'll be looking for Ninjette for next year. Good class for old guys, except I need to lose about 30 pounds to be competitive.
Being a small company with limited resources, the obvious and easy path would be to throw a beak, hard luggage, and semi-knobby tires on the naked bike and call it an adventure bike. Not that imaginative, but it would be a really great bike.
Um...have you ever met Erik?
No, but I've seen the Ulysses....it's an XB with a big tail and tall shocks, which is most likely what the new one will be. Which wouldn't ba a bad thing!
Hmm, a couple of "numbered" posts that were up at various times today for various lengths of time have disappeared. It appears the big 1190RX reveal may happen a day or two BEFORE next Wednesday, depending on the accuracy of these posts.
I'm predicting it'll show up as an exclusive review in the next issue of Cycle World, and maybe it'll be on cycleworld.com before the print release.
hopefully we'll be like and then be like , Hope this lives up to the hype but in the same respect, the reveal hasn't been highly advertised, not even as much as the Motus bikes. Wonder if Erik is trying to sneak up on soomeone...hmmm.
EBR releases a 250cc modern sportbike with FI and decent power to weight ratio, hopefully undercutting Honda and Kawi, somewhere along the lines of $3500 - $4000 new. That'd shake up the industry a bit. And that market is finally growing here in the US, just look at the Ninja 300 sales.
No chagrin here. Wouldn't have invested if there wasn't something coming after. I would hope it would be improved given the talent working on it. Besides, the RS is a snapshot in time that will never happen again. I think too that more (for most of us) is sort of like feeding a pig strawberries.
I think the barracuda would have really bridged the gap between where Buell was at the time, and where other sportbike manufacturers were. more power, less weight, chain-drive, better cooling system, full-fairing. the thing would have been a serious contender.
i don't think that's the tail, it looks like another bike or something further behind it. The tail is blurry but looks like the barracuda style tail, like the "sneak peak" pic of the bike sitting on the lift, from behind.
Looking closer, it appears the closest red bike is an RS, black one behind it is also an RS, then the yellow is the RX, red one behind that is RX, then there is a Hero themed bike behind that, it appears to have a rear seat cushion, so another RX? Behind those I can't make out enough details, the green bike is the SX or possibly a Hero?
Is the Green one the AX? it's got grab handles!!! Looks way shorter than the Red/White one in front of it though. In fact, the three on the far end have a very non-XB/1125 looking airbox vs. that of the 1190.
Just past the RX, there's an all-red EBR bike (RS or RX?) and a red/white EBR bike (RS or RX?). After that, there appears to be 4 more bikes (9 bikes altogether). I think the last 4 bikes in the line (green, maroon, white, and black) are Hero models. Check this thread for photos of their new stuff:
The tube frame Buells had an adjustable axle with belt drive. Like you can see in the white bike pic near the top of the thread it clearly has a chain equipped, but it has a swingarm with a removable brace like the belt driven XB/1125. It would be cool to have either option available.
I posted this earlier but now its not there. If you look at the guy in red shorts sitting down using his phone there is a picture of a bike that looks like an adventure bike. It could be a poster for a neighboring set up at the expo but could be what is hiding under the cover
does anybody have a link to the original PDF of Cycle World's article on the Barracuda? EDIT: disregard, found it on froggypwns. http://www.froggypwns.com/buellpdfs/Cycle%20World%20-%20May2010%20-%20Demise%20of%20Buell%20and%20Barracuda%202.pdf
and after re-reading that article, i would happily trade in my 1125 for a barracuda. I'm sure the 1190rx is even better. man i picked a crappy time to buy a house and get married.
and it weighs 412 WET! Drop the passenger pegs, swap to race exhaust/air filter/ECM, and this thing is going to be The Big Thing for 2013. As long as the price is relatively decent, I think this bike will pave the way for EBR.
EDIT: Man, even after I do my big bore, I'm still going to feel so inferior. Damn this alpha male syndrome.
I think it'll look exactly like the current bike, with plastic bodywork, Showa suspenders & a different seat. It's just too sexy to make a bunch of changes to, but who knows?
Damn I'm good!
More power than the RS and traction control off the bat? That I didn't expect. Yeah there better be some serious magazine tests come spring. I forsee Superduke & Panigale comparos. I also forsee future "RS" spec versions being uber nasty....
Oh and "wet" is an industry standard, it means all fluids etc, no fuel. So a bike isn't penalised for a larger fuel tank.
(Message edited by sir_wadsalot on October 16, 2013)