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Archive through February 19, 2005Brucelee30 02-19-05  04:55 pm
Archive through February 17, 2005Doughnut30 02-17-05  10:21 pm
         

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Brucelee
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 04:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Ohh and by the way... I also fully supported the caning of Michael Fay,the little bastard that decided to go to Singapore and paint grafitti on peoples cars."

I did too but I am not sure why you bring this up? Was he a rapist or have some other connection with rape?
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Doughnut
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My question was, under these tenuous and controversial circumstances (remember they were BOTH drunk and therefore not competent according to you), do you still execute this man?

Both drunk, he continues after she says no?

I don't know about execute, but it should be an option.

However, have you committed rape since you were active before she said no?

If he stops then and there, no.
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"I did too but I am not sure why you bring this up? Was he a rapist or have some other connection with rape?"

No connection...just reinforced the view of hardline punishment.


And I can see some of your point about assumptions. But: over half of rapes are commited by a family member or someone close to the family. Over half of the perps were under the influence of drugs and or alchohol, not mentally ill.
Victims of date rape are 11 times more likely to be clinically depressed, and 6 times more likely to experience social phobia than are non-victims. Psychological problems are still evident in cases as long as 15 years after the assault.

My point is that although I am making some assumptions, I would say that there is no excuse for what is done. Mental Defect? I saw you mention something like that. Is that an excuse? I say no. I would agree that you would not execute a 15 year old autistic boy for trying to mimick what he has seen on tv or in his parents bedroom, but then again, there are all sorts of factors. I stand by my belief on the death penalty for rape.
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Doughnut
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 05:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I know it is not a simple black / white issue, and would not advocate death automatic. That being said, I do have a very strong opinion of rape, and believe that death is not too strong of a punishment for a rapist.
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Doughnut
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

From stealing bicycles to rape. Wow
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 05:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

hehehe I know. Like I said in an earlier post, I can always count on this crowd for some diverse and heated debates.
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Brucelee
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"That being said, I do have a very strong opinion of rape, and believe that death is not too strong of a punishment for a rapist."

Fortunately, I cannot think of any civilized society that agrees with you.

BTW-I am considered a very hard liner on crime and punishment. The DP has been, and should continue to be, reserved for punishing the crime of murder by just about every country in the world.
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Brucelee
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 06:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"My point is that although I am making some assumptions, I would say that there is no excuse for what is done. Mental Defect? I saw you mention something like that"

I did not mention mental defect. In my example, both the man and woman were drunk, both got so voluntarily. You indicated that this made the woman legally incompetent. I simply added that if this were so for the woman, it was so for the man.

Therefore, he could not have been considered to competent to have committed the crime with intent.

Having said that, I still said he was guilty. I simply agree with current practice that his is not a capital crime.
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Doughnut
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Murder is the only crime where death should/could be the punishment in your mind?
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Brucelee
Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Murder is the only crime where death should/could be the punishment in your mind"

Yes.
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Blake
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 12:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I oppose the death sentence. Put the murderers and rapists to work. I wonder how much electricity a million cons on stationary bicycles could generate. Might put a dent in the oil imports. Or rig up some of them Matrix human battery deals.
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Jon
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 01:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Death penalty has a purpose. Use it.
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Blake
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 02:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"The argument that one "deserves what she gets" because of the way she was dressed is one that gets me more than any. It is very shallow minded for one to think that any person deserves to be violated because of the choice in clothing."

We have some good news. I believe everyone here agrees with you on that. And I'd say that "shallow minded" is a very kind characterization of anyone who does not. I've seen no comments in this thread espousing that kind of thinking. Not sure why you felt the need to make the statements. You may be confusing two separate issues. There is no sympathy for rapists being expressed here. There is some expression of lesser sympathy for those who irresponsibly put themselves in a position to be victimized by evildoers.

Failing to acknowledge and take precautions to avoid or protect oneself against the evils that exist in this world virtually guarantees that one will be putting oneself in harm's way. However if/when such a failure happens and is met with evil, it in no way diminishes the need to meet out swift justice to the evildoers.

Interesting that the penalty for rape comes up in discussion here. My wife and I were discussing the case recently reported where a couple with a bunch of adopted children, eight I believe, were found to be torturing their children, pulling off their fingernails and other horrendous torture. We decided that in addition to jail time that the guilty parties should also be subjected to the same tortuous acts that they perpetrated on their innocent young children.

I'd be in favor of similar eye-for-an-eye treatment of rapists. I think that demonstrating to such people what their heinous acts do to their victims might be one very big first step towards their salvation. It seems that one common trait among rapists is a near complete inability to empathize. Maybe subjecting such people to the same evil acts in which they have engaged would help them empathize with their victims and thus stop the evil behavior.

Probably best we just stick to the protection of society mission and leave the vengeance part to a higher power. Put them in jail and keep them there. It works. It is one very big reason why our crime rate has dropped so drastically in the past decade and a half.
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Brucelee
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I do like the idea of making prisoners work. It seems to me that the whole notion of the solitary prisoner "remaking himself" in the prison library is pretty laughable indeed. Not that this could not happen but just like the rest of us, that should happen after this prisoners DAY JOB!

And I think that day job should require some effort. I would pull every gymnasium out of every prison in the US. In it place, I would bring in some rocks to bust and other activities that could generate revenue for the state (to offset the room and board costs) and provide exercise for the inmates.

A simple solution with a host of benefits. If I am busting rocks for say, six hours a day, how much energy am I going to have to cause trouble in the shower room?

Amazing to me how these simple solutions evade our elected types. It seems to me that if your average thug was thinking about raping a woman and knew that he was looking at say 15 yrs of REALLY HARD LABOR, he MIGHT think that a hooker was the way to go!
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Not sure why you felt the need to make the statements. You may be confusing two separate issues. "

Blake: I thought about this whole thread last night while I took a break from the board. I think I got a little wrapped up in it, and treid to speak quickly without thought in expressing my passion for the subject.

We had "roadside" labor when I was on the SD, until a drunk driver ran off the road and took out a few inmates. The state then decided it was "unsafe" to allow the inmates to do things like garbage cleanup on the interstate or anything that might put then in danger! Go figure.
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Jlnance
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 01:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I knew a guy who said he always liked to go to jail in Florida. Said they used prisoners to pick up trash off the beaches in the mornings, and there were lots of ladies laying out nude while he was doing it.
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