| Author | Message | ||
     Gomo  |
.....Well Almost. Buell now has detacthable saddlebags, that expand an extra 2"  for the Lightning and Firebolt as well as a Trunk Bag. I saw these and other new bags (as well as a couple of new paint schemes) in the new 2005 accessory flyer at the Dealership. Buell seems to be listening to our concerns for a Sport Tourer. Now if they can just stretch the Firebolt a little for us 6'+ riders..... | ||
| Buellnuts  |
I my opinion they abandoned there sport touring following. It really was a dumb move in my opinion. I know it will take something very BIG to get me to buy a Buell again. Bob | ||
| Doughnut  |
I my opinion they abandoned there sport touring following NOOOOOO!  | ||
| Cataract2 |
I'm buying me a set of those saddle bags this week. | ||
| Koz5150  |
I don't think they had a very good sport touring bike anyway. Before the S3 owners go flame crazy, The bike didn't even have a throttle lock for longer trips? Also I am glad they concentraited all the time developing the XB series. In order for Buell to have a good new Sport touring bike they would have to build a new chassis because the current one is just too small for two people and bags. It just doesn't make sence. | ||
| Tombo |
The S3 has excellent ergonomics, handles great,makes good usable power, and you can get most engine parts at any Harley dealer out on the road. As a sport tourer, it works for me. It did take some sorting out to keep the bag lids from falling off, the shocks from failing, and the infamous isolators from failing (I became far too proficient at changing these). But I still have not ridden a sport tourer I enjoy more. Most are buzzy in the handlebars or carry an extra hundred pounds or just lack character. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Your description fits for my M2, except I thought the M2 had better ergonomics (I sit up a bit straighter). I just thought that if I was to get a sport touring bike I would like it to be a bit more refined. Cruise, or at least a thumb lock , vibration free mount for the handlebars, and optional backrest for the passenger. I have the Buell cloth saddlebags, installed a thublock, and bought a Corbin seat with backrest for my M2. My wife and I have done 600 mile weekend trips and it works great. I do get a little tired of the wind at times though. But I would not consider my bike an ideal sport touring setup. (Message edited by koz5150 on January 29, 2005) | ||
| M2nc |
If Buell really wanted to, it could compete in the Sport Touring Market. If Buell would make a new chassis larger than the XB yet smaller and lighter than a Honda ST, Yamaha FJR or Triumph Sprint, then the fewer ponies would not be a problem. Also if you develop a 1350cc motor or a V-Rod 4-valver motor in the 130hp range, the bike would play with any real sport tourer. Give it the ergonomics necessary of a true sport tourer and Buell's handling capability, and you would have a winner. I believe the bike would sell as well or better than the XB. Look at the average Buell customer now, usually a more experienced, middle aged man or woman. No kiddies! It plays right into a much larger segment of the riders who want more out of their machines than the average Cruiser can handle. It make sense to me, Sport bike with Cruiser heart, Adult sport touring riders, they just need to find each other. | ||
| Koz5150 |
I think you may be mistaken with the No kiddies comment. I think the increase in sales with the XB models is directly a product of the younger people buying the bike. A Buell salesman might be able to offer the best data, but I gotta believe your truely sought after Buell customer is between the ages of 21-35. Check out all their advertising, the movie clips on the web page and the fact that Buell is sponsoring (or at least seems to be) a younger stunt team http://www.teamx-treem.net/ Those guys wanna ride hard, not sport touring. Also it brings me back to my other point. Like you said they would have to build a new chassis and I don't think they want to concentraite their efforts on that right now. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Does this guy want a sport touring bike?  | ||
| Chickenhauler |
gomo.have you tried using the foot pegs from a xbs? they have a 1 inch drop should help.}}}} | ||
| Gomo |
have you tried using the foot pegs from a xbs? they have a 1 inch drop should help. I tought of using both the lower pegs and a set of setback bars from Helibar, but since I still enjoy my S3T I'll wait and see what Buell has for future models. The XB's should be around for awhile so I can always choose one of them when the time (and $$$) come. | ||
| Aydenxb9 |
Marketing may be going after the youngest buyers but the product seems to "speak" more to experienced motorcyclists. Just look at the ages of many on this board, look at the photos of owners in Fuell, you're not seeing hoards of young buyers. What you are seeing are 30-50 year old motorcyclists who generally have had seat time on several machines and who may have come off of more traditional sport bikes but don't want or aren't willing yet to settle on to a cruiser. Now look at some industry market share numbers for 600cc+ motorcycles. The market in the U.S. breaks down like this: Cruiser/Custom 63% Sportbike 20% Traditional 16% Touring 12% Now Buells' latest numbers: XB Sales in U.S. in '04 +12% (industry +11% 600cc+ performance/standard sales) XB Sales in Europe in '04 +58% XB total sales in '04 +29% Naked Sportbike growth 1998-2002 +111% Looking at the numbers there's two things that can be concluded: First, the sportbike market is the second largest segment of the motorcycle market and that nakeds are the fastest growing part of that segment. Second, touring motorcycles are the smallest segment of the market and looking at what's available in that segment that most customers want a large, traditional machine. Now armed with that information, put yourself in Buell's situation: a small, young company with support from a large company finally beginning to make real in-roads into the market. You have decent resources but certainly not unlimited. What do you do? You don't market a bike that appeals to the a fraction of the smallest segment of the market. That's why you don't see and probably won't see a Buell sport-tourer any time soon. There's not enough market. If they even were considering it, it certainly wouldn't be on a dedicated platform, it would have to share with an existing platform and the XB is too compact to be a player amongst the competition. Most of the sport-tourers available in this country are limited production, or are long in the tooth older models that they keep on trotting out satisfy the few that want that type of machine. Truth be told, be happy there's as many sport tourers in the market as there are. Buell P&A has heard the cries and given us touring luggage for XB's, so be happy. It looks to be good stuff at a reasonable price. Buy bunches of it and maybe Buell will look into offering a bike with luggage as standard, isn't that what a tourer is anyway? | ||
| Crusty |
Buell P&A has heard the cries and given us touring luggage for XB's, so be happy. No. Yesterday, my wife and I went to a (Somewhat) local Moto Guzzi dealer to look at a 750 Breva for her next bike. It is roomy enough to carry a passenger, has decent hard bags available, and has more comfortable ergonomics than either her Blast or an XB. Once we get our tax refund, Buell will lose a sale. | ||
| Gomo |
Dave I agree with your statements. The % of bike that would be sold as Sport Tourers would be low. I also undestand the cost needed to design a Sport Touer is probably higher than their returns might be. I do like the fact that Buell is now offering saddlebags for the XB's (they are listening to their riders). What I would like to see is something along the lines of an XB Plus, a slightly larger version of what Buell makes now. To have something like that, one can always change pegs, bars windscreens for their liking in comfort. The only thing I would add to that is to fabricate a set of lowers (as an accessory) that would give more wind protection. They would be far less $$$ to design than a set of hard bags for just one bike - I'm just thinking the bags they have now could be made to fit several configurations (just new mounting brackets) | ||
| Aldaytona  |
The THREE guys who purchased S3Ts in 2002 really like them. I don't believe any motorcycle company laments the loss of a couple of sales a year, even the big 3 debate whether or not to introduce "sport touring" models here. I think as a lot of you do, that BMC is right on the money with the XB series. For the few times I need more than a backpack, I attach the hard bags to my Boxer and let BMW do what it does best. No motorcycle can be all to most, but aside from motocrossing, the XB comes the closest for me. (been sport touring from Ft Lauderdale Fl to Bridgeport Ct on the M2 and XB9R, didn't need the BMW for those short trips)  | ||
| M2nc |
The S3T was a Sport Tourer on the cheap. That is not my line but some others on Old School Buell. In comparison to competition, the S3T was at best a half-hearted attempt at the Sport Touring market. Buell can call the XB a success in many ways, but there is more potential in leading a market where most of your customer base is. Also Ayden has stated some good facts. They are for the US market. Note the sales of Buells in Europe. They are succeeding because of Buells power range (Torque), handling and most of all fuel mileage. An XB blows ricers out of the water in this little detail. My M2 gets 25% better fuel mileage than my Nighthawk. Sport Tourers are King in Europe. The ZZR line was a flop for Kawazaki here in the US, but its a staple in Europe. A true world class sport tourer would crack a totally unintended market wide open for Buell. They could make their bread overseas with this bike, and let us here get the payoff crumbs Gomo, I would not consider you a Kid, but you are probably one of the youngest in this crowd. I was referring to the 18-25 year-olds that you see on Gixxers and Ninjas. Buell is fooling itself if they think they have a chance with that market-share. We have all been there. The name of the game is SPEED!! A 30mph slower Buell does not play there. | ||
| M2nc |
Not Gomo, sorry, old age, Kaz5150 | ||
| Firebolt020283  |
ok im no subject expert here but it is my understanding from what i have herd before that it would cost to much to build a t model. Now granted i could care less if buell made one or not as long as it doesnt interfer with the platforms we have now cuz i like all 5 bikes buell curently makes but why jeperdize a good thing bye going out on a limb and building a touring model when they aperently didnt do that well when they had the last ones. and i got to back kaz5150 on this one as i am also apart of the "younger" croud being as i am only 21 (well 22 in a few days). | ||
| Spiderman  |
Where did you guys get your marketing degrees at? You guys couldn't be further from the truth. Yeah maybe you as a 21-22 year old may not want a sport tourer and said dude sitting on the front faring may not want one either. But if you guys have been around you would know not all Buellers especially the OG tuber owners are young and squidly. Lafyett from Fl is closin in on 70 and still rides his S3 and may want another Sport Tourer soon, A article in Battle2win a few years ago had a Spaceshuttle cpt who rode a S3 also man I bet he may want a new bike soon, ahhh let him get a BMW or Yamaha cause you know they have some sport tourers. And not to mention the young guys that do want to sport tour hmmmmm man it would really suck to bring in some more markets and demographics. And it wouldn't be that had to take the current frame and add a sport tourer, all you would need is a few things... Swing arm lengthend, Subframe, Passenger and rider footpeg assemblies. and Bags.  | ||
| Josh_  |
>I don't think they had a very good sport touring bike anyway...The bike didn't even have a throttle lock for longer trips? Name one that does. Who other than Harley even has a throttle lock? what bikes other than the Goldwing and big BMW come with cruise? >In comparison to competition, the S3T was at best a half-hearted attempt at the Sport Touring market back in 99 it was actually a pretty good attempt. I also looked at the Duc ST2 and Triumph Sprint and went with the Buell. Today they have their work cut out for them, especially if HD has concerns a Buell Tourer would pull sales of BTs. I should be happy with my FJR until then. | ||
| Phillyblast  |
I dunno, Josh, that's a purty nice sport tourer in your profile pic I think you guys are just spoiled. All you need is a cell phone, a credit card, and BRAG roadside assistance. Passenger space? Let'er get her own bike  | ||
| M2nc |
One clarification, I love S2 & S3. In fact I was looking for an S3T when I found my M2. I was trying to make the point if Buell wants to increase market-share they would have to win over someone new to Buell. I love my M2. I am getting one of those Ventura bag setups for it and I am planning trips this year, but it is not a sport tourer. The bike is a good two up bike, better than an XB, but it has no wind protection and other features found on sport tourers today. The S3 had quality issues. The lower fairings broke and the bags had problems too. In today's market, a 13g to 14g bike better have the quality of an XB and have the show of a new ST or FJR. If not, the doubters will say, "I told you so!" | ||
| BadS1  |
Spidey you lengthen the swingarm and put a longer swingarm on the present XB chassis and what you will do is really upset the way the bike will handle.Especially with a passenger or luggage with weight in them. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Josh, even my Dad's 2000 sporty came with a thumb screw throttle lock??? Spidey, maybe there are a few guys looking for a new sport Touring buke, but those guys didn't justify the number of Buells sold 5 years ago (Tuber days), why would they justify it now? I bought my M2 because I thought the XB line was to geared towards a younger/agressive rider. I think it was a good move for Buell, but not my style. Nor would I want Buell to waste time on a Sport Touring bike that was half the handling and fun of the XB series. As far as the younger crowd goes, HD has no interest in steering Harley riders onto Buells, why would they want to introduce a bike to compete with their own? They want a younger crowd to get hooked on the v-twin virus (I got it bad!). BTW did anyone notice the killer 12 O'clock bar on the XB pictured above? | ||
| Madduck |
HD/Buell seem to know their customers pretty well. the XB line seems to be turning buell sales the right direction. Harley has the best market presence of all motorcycles and better name recognition than 98% of the retail companies in existence. I will probably be buying either a new sx or sprtster this year. Personally own two BMW's one of which is going. | ||
| Josh_ |
>>Who other than Harley even has a throttle lock? >even my Dad's 2000 sporty came with a thumb screw throttle lock??? Correct, Harleys do, no one else does. Harley also doesn't have sport-touring bikes. Thus my concern about a comment that an S3 doesn't make a good sport-touring bike because it lacks something no other sport-touring bike has. (Message edited by josh_ on January 31, 2005) | ||
| Gomo |
Bottom line is.... If you have a sportbike you like to throw bags onto and hit the road for more than a day...it's a sporttourer. It all comes down to what we want or don't want and can live with or without on the bike. Myself, I like having the wind protection and hard bags that bikes like the S3T, FJR 1300, Honda ST, Triumph ST, BMW....etc has to offer. I enjoy the ergo's of my S3T but have been considering other brands for a next bike, providing Buell does not offer anything for the future. I've tried doing 300-400 mile days in a row on the XB's and at 46 & 6'1" it was not as comfortable as the bike I have now. I understand what the market of the XB is directed at and I am pleased it is such a success. I also understand if Buell opts not to make a replacement for the S3T - they are not only in business to make their customers happy but to make $$$ and if a sport tourer is not a finacial plus.... why make it? I'm no business wizz, just some thoughts | ||
| M2nc |
True Gomo, but many more on this page are saying the same thing. "I love my S2/S3 but an FJR/ST/DUC is in my future because the XB is no replacement for the S2/S3." I hope that raises a flag somewhere. | ||
| Josh_ |
Lots are doing more than saying: me FJR, CCRyder ST1300, Racerboy ST1300, V2Win FJR ... |
