| Author | Message | ||
     Aydenxb9 |
I have to get this off of my chest. I've had it with some MRO's such as ABATE. I'm embarrased for them on a certain level because as a group they are so stupid. Working in an H-D dealership, we get all the freebee newsprint "biker" mags such as 'Full Throttle', 'Dixie Rider', and 'Thunder Press', and they all are mouth pieces for "Biker/Freedom Fighter" dolts. It's always the same ol' thing; "They're theatening to take our freedoms away if they make us wear helmets, or "we gotta have tem loud pipes so-ins they can hear us cummin'" nonsense. "Let those who ride decide". Bull....! They haven't a clue. What's worse, their attitudes and dim bulbed freedom threat victim-hood is actually hurting motorcycling. Where is it written that operating a motorcycle, any motor vehicle is a right? It's a privilege granted by the states and can be revoked, therefore the state can put forth reasonable requirements as a pre-requisite for having that privilege granted. And requiring a helmet is really a minimal requirement considering what could potentially happen to the operator of a motorcycle should things go wrong. I personally think that standard for a motorcycle license is too low. There should be a minimum requirement for both competency and personal protection. An MSF approved course should be mandatory and at the very least, helmet, long pants, over the ankle footwear, some kind of jacket or overshirt, and riding gloves should be mandatory. These idiots though are just as foolish and dangerous as any squidly stunter wannabe. The problem is they've actually have enough active brain cells to have organize. In this state, they actually lobbied and got a law passed that places more severe penalties on at fault drivers in accidents involving motorcycles than if they were involved with another car. And in the next session, they may get the state helmet law repealed. Oh joy! Insurance in this state is already bordering on usery, can't wait to see how high it goes if that happens. I may have my freedom to enjoy motorcycling taken from me in the form of not being able to afford insurance for the bikes! Thanks, I feel a little better.... Dave | ||
| Cyclonemick |
It should not be the Goverment who makes you wear a helmet! I wear a Helmet when I ride but I don't believe that you should take that freedon away! This is America! | ||
| Spiderman  |
I am not a huge fan of ABATE either, so I did a little independent questioning of known ABATE members in my area along with others who oppose the helmet law. My question to them was, "You are for choices, helmet law, seat belt etc correct?" and of course they would say yes. Then I asked, "You believe the Government shouldn't tell you or any one what to do period?" They said correct. Then the million dollar question. "Are you pro-life or pro-choice?" over 80% are pro-life that I asked. Kind of Ironic. --------------------------------------------- as a note before I am flamed all to hell Yes I know abortion and the helmet law are TWO diffrent things but the basics behind it are choice and government intervention! | ||
| Court |
As MRO realize successes, helmet use declines and motorcycle deaths rise. Darwinism will eventually stop us from doing stupid stuff like riding without helmets. | ||
| Buellisti |
Unfortunately, idiots have a high birth rate. | ||
| M1combat  |
LOL... LOL again  Brilliant quote Buellisti . | ||
| Blake |
I don't support ABATE. I oppose government imposed helmet and seatbelt laws for adults. Tony (Spidy), Ever consider the issue from the baby's point of view? Just something to think about, since you brought it up. | ||
| U4euh |
Aydenxb9--- I too live in NC. and read all this crap they try to get passed. Somewhere I heard of a state that has a law that states they will give the choice to the bikers to wear helmets or not. If they choose not too, than those riders will automatically be considered for organ donation if something should happen. I think that is something they should pass here. | ||
| Ingemar  |
Helmet laws are silly. If they think they are so smart with their helmet laws, they should make it mandatory for every biker to wear full leather gear, boots and gloves, armored and all. What's the use of a helmet law when you can ride your bike almost naked, but just wearing a helmet? | ||
| 12bolt |
Good point Ingemar, and where does it all stop? when we all have to wear full armored riding gear to go two blocks down the street to pick up the mail? | ||
| Court |
>>>when we all have to wear full armored riding gear to go two blocks down the street to pick up the mail? Likely a good idea (I'd defer to Steve A who knows) but as I recall >90% of accidents occur within something like 3 miles of origin. Home is the point of origin >90% of the time. Speeds in motorcycle severe/fatals were something like <40MPH. QUESTION: when we all have to wear full armored riding gear to go two blocks down the street to pick up the mail? ANSWER: Now, if you are me. COMMENT: What you do is YOUR business. To that end I have no clue what the gov't is doing in here. No one needs to tell me that riding a motorcycle w/o a helmet and sticking my hand in the fan blade of the ford are about on par. SOLUTION: I have long said, and stand by it, I wish motorcycle insurance had a "void without helmet and protective clothing" clause. I'd save money. DISCLAIMER: This is my PERSONAL view, I've no need to debate it or to convince anyone, just sharing. This is America. I believe all folks have an equal right to splatter their brains wherever they choose and leave their families to sort our the mess left behind. Riding w/o a helmet is, in my personal opinion, the cruelest thing you can do to those you love. Court | ||
| Aydenxb9 |
Again, how is the requirement of a helmet an assault on your rights? Your freedom? What if I want to ride without using my headlights at night? The government imposes upon me that I burn my lights at night. I don't like speed limits either, I'd like to run at 100 mph all the time, yet the government has restrictions on how fast I am allowed to go. Is that an imposition on my freedom? Again, operation of a motor vehicle is not a right, but a privilege granted you by the state you live in, always has been. Proving a certain level of competency and being required to wear a certain amount of protection isn't asking the unreasonable. I'm on the other end when it comes to this: I think that the states require too little. I do think that every motorcyclist should be required to not only wear a helmet, but at minimum a 3/4 or open face helmet, but also a riding jacket, gloves, heavy long pants, and proper footwear. | ||
| Ingemar |
Thank you Court, exactly my thoughts! | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise)  |
I have long said, and stand by it, I wish motorcycle insurance had a "void without helmet and protective clothing" clause. I'd save money. No you wouldnt, insurance companies pay a lot more out for single vehicle car accidents than for bikes. As a whole in this nation we comprise just over .1% yes thats right .1% of the population. When it comes to insurance we arent even a drop in the bucket to the big insurance firms. Ayden, why not require all car drivers to wear a full firesuit & fullface helmet? Plenty of folks get killed in cars due to head injuries. It comes down to the government trying to save people from themselves, never going to happen as stupid folks are always going to find ways to kill themselves. Do I ride without a helmet? Yep & I know the consequences involved in doing so also. I limit my risks & my exposure when I do ride lidless, but its never going to make me 100% safe. Even with a helmet you can still die, plenty of riders have. Maybe we should institute full back protectors on every ride? After all we even here on Badweb we have a fellow rider who was paralyzed & another who is still recovering from a back injury. Where does the government intrusion end? Maybe they should require speed limiters in bikes since we have no need to go faster than 70 mph anyways? How about airbag suits & bumpers on bikes? | ||
| 12bolt |
Since most accidents happen close to home under 40mph then I guess you would have to argue that all bicycle riders should wear heavy pants, jacket,gloves, boots and a full face helmet? | ||
| Court |
>>>I limit my risks & my exposure when I do ride lidless, but its never going to make me 100% safe. In all the years of testing, riding and cavorting aboard motorcycles, I have NEVER planned a crash. Each and every trip over the bars was a surprise. You may THINK you limit your exposure but no amount of carefulosity on your part will have the slightest impact on the marauding 16 year old chick in heat on the cell phone. In the last 3 years I've lost WAY to many motorcycling friends to serious accidents and death. Don't let anybody BS you. In MOST cases they were NOT good riders who fell into bad situations. They were good riders doing very stupid things. This is where these conversations typically erode. I've stated my opinion and been truthful about my closemindedness on the topic. I respect others right to choose, even poorly, as one of the basic principles on which this country was founded. Like I said, I neither need to convince nor be convinced. I'll wear a helmet (I go so far as to wear REALLY GOOD ones) when I ride a motorcycle. Court | ||
| Aydenxb9 |
Dyna, the word being reasonable. There is a direct correlation though to deaths -vs- helmet use on motorcycles. There's also a direct correlation between injury severity and protective gear use. Will any protection give 100% coverage from injury or death? No, of course not. Just as there is a correlation to seat belt use and death and injury rates in car collisions, but death and injuries still happen. 12bolt, many states require protective gear for bicyclists when on public roads or land. Helmets, knee and elbow protection. | ||
| 12bolt |
Don't get me wrong guys. I am an advocate of wearing protective gear. However I am not an advocate of more laws stating that I have to or else not ride. You choose to take a big risk every time you get on your bike. What if there was a law against riding because you might endanger yourself doing it? Seems to me protective laws just keep getting more restrictive and more restrictive! | ||
| Ingemar |
As far as laws are concerned, I don't need those that protect me from myself. To be forced to wear a helmet or a seatbelt are examples of those laws. Speeding on the other hand is a law mainly to protect others from my foolishness. But as with all the laws, it comes down to responsibility. What I find of late is that people abuse laws to act irresponsible. Just because you act within the law, it doesn't make you responsible. I always wear my gear and my helmet, and seatbelt in the car. Not because the law says so, but because it is a responsibility I choose to carry to those who hold me dear. | ||
| 12bolt |
yup | ||
| Jmartz  |
All of you living in states without helmets laws enjoy your freedom. I'm going to Florida tomorrow and I am not taking my helmet. I keep asking the same question: If this sport (or mode of transportation) is so dangerous, why doesn't the government ma it illegal? That would certainly end this debate. | ||
| Brucelee |
The government routinely imposes restrictions on our right to drive (look at your car and all of its mandated gear). This is mundane at this point and who is for fighting that? The helmet (on average) will save lives, reduce morbidity and save money. I am OK if folks want to ride W/O a helmet if we are allowed to pull the plug on them when they are Brain Dead, harvest all their organs w/o their permission, and bill back all the costs of care up to the point of death to their families or estate. Otherwise, use one and avoid all that for your family. | ||
| Clevelandxb9r |
"As far as laws are concerned, I don't need those that protect me from myself. To be forced to wear a helmet or a seatbelt are examples of those laws." Seatbelt laws protect me from you. If you are in an accident you are more likely to remain in control of your car if you are wearing a seatbelt. Then after an accident you might not come careening into my lane and kill ME. | ||
| X1tx |
I tend to take a bit more 'Libertarian' view on this. I think everyone ought to be able to wear whatever protective gear they want so long as they're willing to live with the consequences. Problem is, when they haul the carcass of someone into the ER with a major head trauma, they can't find out whether or not this is something they were willing to accept. Then the locals, through taxes, end up spending gobs of cash to keep these folks with squashed heads alive. Here in TX, you can ride lidless if you want, provided you're insured. Personally, I wear all the protective gear I can stand, but that's my choice. Another part of the problem is visibility. When we don't wear helmets, everyone can see that. But it used to be that the percentage of car driver accident fatalities due to head trauma was equivalent to the percentage for motorcyclists. I'm sure that's changed some due to the use of air bags, etc. But if the laws were intended to reduce fatalities, why didn't they mandate helmets for everyone? But that's just my stupid opinion........ | ||
| Jlnance  |
Court - What would you recomend as a good Helmet? I am never quite sure if I am paying for quality or brand-name when I buy gear. | ||
| Aesquire  |
If 50,000 lives could be saved by making helmet use mandatory, is it worth the simple annoyance of having millions wear full face lids? That was the last silly guess from the NHTSA I read. ( 50,000 yearly head injury deaths in cars that would have been saved with full face helmets ) There would be a major backlash if all car drivers & passengers were required to buy, much less use helmets. Since we (riders) are a tiny minority, expect a lack of respect for our opinions. I think I agree with Court, here. Darwin rules, head injuries drool. Your choice, & I'm wearing full face. | ||
| Dsergison  |
RE: managing risk while lidless... I don't push it. I don't ride in traffic. I don't try for that perfect launch. etc... I mosey my butt down the road about 3 miles to the ice cream shack and sit under a tree and watch the girls. I know I could be hit by some careless fool. but I severely limit my exposure to them and I give myself alot more room to react. I figure I probably remove 3/4 or more of the risk this way. good enough for me to go for a lidless jaunt once in a while. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Thats it exactly, sure there is a chance something could happen but which scenario is better here..the fully dressed guy doing standup wheelies at 100+mph who t-bones a car or the guy wearing just the standard leather jacket tagging a cars bumper at 30mph? I have had a couple of get offs at 30+ mph & no helmet & believe it or not they were actually quite manageable to keep my head from hitting anything. Hell folks go skiing at speeds faster than that & dont wear helmets. Dress for the occasion, if I feel like tearing it up, wheelies, etc then I dress up. If im taking it ez & just putting around then I dont. Accident avoidance on a bike can be exercised, is it 100% infallible? Obviously not, but ride like you are invisible & everyones out to get you & you put the odds in your favor. How many accidents have we read about...on here & otherwise that were single vehicle accidents & the only real cause was rider error? | ||
| Ebear  |
OK Court.....Carefulosity ???...I like that one!! I think everyone should have the freedom to choose for themselves...But consider a democratic Vote of your Immediate Family....! | ||
| P0p0k0pf |
The more I see "politically correct", and see how it is used, the more I am convinced that it is just an 18-letter phrase for "wrong"... It is hard to look at modern legislation without contempt after realizing that a lot of it is doing nothing more than attempting to compensate for lacking morals and common sense. People should not steal money from McDonald's in a lawsuit for spilling hot coffee on themselves, or for crashing their motorhome after putting on the cruise control and walking to the back, with no one at the wheel. It is a shame that laws have mutated into Damage Control to patch problems in the world that should be addressed in parenting, school, etc... Anyways... no, laws should not protect you by forcing you to wear a helmet, gear, etc. I hope people have enough sense to protect themselves before they are maimed or killed. |
