| Author | Message | ||
     Zip |
Mine's bigger than yours !!! | ||
| Mikej |
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| Kenb |
Jerseyguy, you aint too far from me i'm up in sparta(sussex county, a real red county) nice ar ! is it a bushmaster ? i have a bushy a2 20" great rifle, real tackdriver. | ||
| M1combat |
I can't use those low recoil rounds... They don't like to cycle my M1. I use 2-3/4" Buck shot. 15 9mm balls. It can fire more 9mm rounds in one second than a pistol can in a minute. At a higher muzzle velicity, but less energy. It's a really fun gun to shoot. I'm still trying to figure out how to mount my M1 in a concealed (mostly anyway) and protected fashion on my Buell. | ||
| P0p0k0pf |
Zip- Just some advice... don't learn your life's lessons from song lyrics... BTW-- did regurgitating those lyrics seem like a plausible argument against guns? I smell troll. | ||
| Polekat |
"A rifle is a poor choice of weapon for home defense. The bullets tend to go thru walls threating family members and may exit the house threating neighbors. " Research the 223 rifle round. It is less likely to go thru walls than 9mm and many other pistol rounds. | ||
| Court |
Keep in mind that we will likely NEVER agree, as a group, on this topic. State your opinion politely, listen to others, tread lightly. | ||
| Kaudette |
...and we're supposed to talk "Buell" where exactly on this thread...???... | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Firebolt - It isn't your right to be armed its your DUTY. Kenb - It's a Colt AR15, pre ban. There's more but we don't talk about it. I lost a neighbor on 9/11 - how about you? Polkat - I don't think I'd light up the AR inside unless I had to. I've a 1911 (among others)for inside & Colt .380 pocket light for carry. Kaudette - I honestly mean you and your country no disrespect, but I don't believe the French understand us at all. | ||
| Buellfool |
It may be your constitutional right to bear arms Firebolt020283 but if you do leave the USA where else could you go to bear arms... mmmmmmmmm... maybe Iraq or some other troble spot in the world, becaue the reality is that most "civilised countries" do not need or want to bear arms. I have spent my life in New Zealand, Australia, England (London 2yrs), and have visited many other countries in Europe. I have never felt the need to have a firearm to protect myself. The truth is that the right to bear arms just means that an awful lot of people bear arms for no reason other than many other people have then also. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Jersey, Ever see the signs at the Canadian Border!!!! Personally I think there are too many guns in the world and its a damm shame. There is absolutely no where in this city where I live that I would not feel safe to walk at any time of the day or night. Just one of the advantages of living here!!!! I can't remember the last time someone was murdered here on the island. | ||
| Court |
Steve: I think I'd get along well with you. I don't even try to explain. I have my views, the key word is "my". I need to impose them on no one and require no ones approval. Like you, my life has changed. "Orange" means something to me under the new MARSEC protocol. If I were in Des Moines, I'd worry less. In New York City I spend a part of each day on 3 of the premier targets in the world. Add to that, that in the last 3 years I have seen the largest city in the US in chaos twice without cell phone service or meaningful police protection. My home defense system is no more legal than our family communication system ( a mirror of that used my the local feds with voice encryption and lots of deep cycle 12VDC backup) I rely on no one for the security of my family. Crazy eh? Court (of note is that I moved here from Topeka, KS one of the most dangerous cities in the US. NYC is, I am told, the lowest per captia crime for any city over 1M...course, we have LOTS of capitas  | ||
| Kaudette |
Hi Jersey, I'm American - living overseas for work & the like. You're right - the French (and most of Europe for that matter) doens't "get" the US. As for bearing firearms, it is a constitutional right (even if the reasoning at the time no longer entirely fits today's society) so I'll accept that. In as much as an educated, rational individual believes they have the NECESSITY to CARRY a firearm in order to assure their pursuit of life, liberty & happiness, then so be it. If it is not a NECESSITY, then my preference would be to keep them in a safe place, cleaned, locked & unloaded, awaiting the next hunting trip or target practice outing. | ||
| Aesquire |
I disagree with buck loads for home defense. I totally approve of a shot gun vs. a rifle. A test some years ( G&A magazine ) back showed buck penetrated a typical house wall ( 2 x 4 studs with sheetrock ) with energy to spare. Double ought can go through 2 exterior walls, so a shot in your house could kill your neighbors children. #8 trap loads blow the daylights out of a wall, but don't have much carry through. Since at typical house ranges, the shot column is a ball the size of a man's fist, regardless of type, it makes little difference in effectiveness, but a lot in safety. A rifle has too much range for the house. IMHO If you're good with one, use it. Remember reasonable & prudent. Oh, that shoot 'em in the yard, & drag 'em inside crap? CSI can tell, so keep your cool. | ||
| Aaron |
Thank you, Kaudette, for acknowledging that it's a right guaranteed in our constitution. Keep in mind, though, that not everyone agrees that the reasoning is no longer applicable. Many of us feel it's more applicable than ever. Our founding fathers harbored a deep mistrust of a strong federal government, and in particular, a federally controlled standing army. They knew first hand how it could be turned against the people. Their view was that an armed citizenry (militia) was an essential check on government. They looked at firearms ownership as a cornerstone of a free society, the right that guarantees the others. To quate a very important person in our history: "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence." - George Washington I literally consider it my civic duty to own so-called "assault weapons". I have several, along with multiple large boxes of ammo. Fortunately, our political system is intact and working. I hope that remains true through my lifetime at least. But I don't take it for granted. PS: for home defense, I prefer my Winchester defender pistol grip 18" 12 gauge with side saddle. I figure it's damn hard to miss at close range with an 18" 12 gauge and anything you hit is not likely to keep coming at you. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
FBI statistics state accurately that the average gun fight is within three to five feet. One of my roomates who was studying with the San Diego Police acadamy pissed off his instructor. In return he had to write a 25 page thesis on the "Best Legal Home Defence Weapon" As in which one carried the least amount of jail time or penalty for use in a home invasion... #3 single shot shotgun weilded by a man #2 small caliber revolver weilded by a woman (a woman will the pull the trigger the until empty in panic more often then a man) and the number 1 home defence weapon with the least amount of jail time tendered for a home invasion between 1975 and 1985 in California....dunt da da duhn...Louisville slugger... Just thought I would throw that up there. My last home defence weapon was a TC .410/.45 loaded with handloaded .45 long colt. Any other firearm within the house was made safe in such a way that someone couldn't just pick it up and load it to fire. In the case of the 10mm Glock Custom, the slide was removed and locked up, the .32 winchester Magnum hunting rifle had the firing pin removed and locked up with the slide from the Glock. I have not been in possession of my own personal firearm now for the last 10 years at my own choice. I do often think of picking a firearm back up for personal enjoyment but have found no need to have for personal protection. I reiterate, I have found no need "for my self" to carry or have a firearm for personal protection as I have been fortunate to not have been in need for a long time. Keep in mind, I have been shot and stabbed at two different instances and in both carrying would not have done me any good as in both instances I had no chance to react. I have since moved from those areas and choose to avoid those types of areas at all cost. I will not speak for others nor will I impose my fortunate life on the way others should feel they need to protect themselves. | ||
| Blake |
What Aaron said! Our constitution says NOTHING about the sporting use of firearms. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Aaron, isnt an 18" 12 gauge considered a "sawed off"? Im not positive but I thought the legal limit was 20"? I could be wrong though. I could see a scenario where even though you were legally in the right to shoot someone, the cops would arrest you for using an illegal weapon to do so. | ||
| Mutt2jeff |
Here is a link describing home defense loads and the advantages/disadvantages of different types. Give it a read, its how i selected what i keep next to my shotgun. http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm They also have some good advice for self defense situations and whatknot if you visit the home page. http://www.firearmstactical.com/ I wont go off on a rant, but i too believe heavy in the right to bear arms, but we also need to teach people how to use the guns they are buying. I think you should have to attend a weekend class on firearms safety if you purchase ANY gun. (handgun, assault rifle, shotgun, whatever. I want people to be able to buy whatever gun they please, within reason of course. No Rocket launchers or mini guns.) In this class, you should have to SHOOT your newly purchased gun and prove to an instructor that you are safe and know how to operate it. I think this would go a long way in stopping gun accidents. You wouldn't have to take this class everytime you bought a gun, just the first time, and say, every 7 years or so to prove yourself still worthy. Just my opinion. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Never mind, I looked it up & while some jurisdictions may have their own laws, the general consensus is that anything less than 18" is illegal. Shoot em up Aaron. | ||
| Roc |
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/quotable/index.htm Wycked - 3 to 5 feet, 3 shots or fewer and in the dark. Is that correct? Were folding stocks invented with motorcycle riders in mind? | ||
| Kaudette |
Aaron, Well stated. My point on the "reasoning at the time no longer entirely fits today's society": At the time of the first draft of the US constitution, we were a group of newly freed colonies. The lifestyle in the US at the time, for all intents and purposes, REQUIRED firearms for survival among the rural populations (hunting). Not the case with the urban populations. I agree with Blake that the constitution does not reference hunting, and thereby one can infer that the constitution intended to assure (among others) the access to firearms to protect the newly formed governments & populations from foreign intervention (British, French, Spanish, etc). Additionally, generalization of firearm ownership assured the ability to rapidly expand into the West, while providing a cheap "Army" (the US govt was bankrupt at the time). These conditions are clearly different today. That being said, I would still support the Constitution ref firearms. | ||
| Rocketman |
You're right - the French (and most of Europe for that matter) doens't "get" the US. For several years I've read similar comment on BadWeB, time and time again. It's fcuking bollocks. America it seems at times does not get the rest of the world. If any American would have cared to visit France this 60th year commemorating the end of WW II, you'd see more Stars and Stripes flying than you'd care to shake a stick at. You my dear American's are held in such high regard in France that to state otherwise does the French an injustice they neither warrant nor deserve. Seems troubles in Iraq have confused a few. Rocket | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
It isn't your right to be armed its your DUTY jersey you are right it is my duty to carry a fire arm but its also my right as a civilan also which is why i personally own a ar15, and a deresert eagle 44 mag. It may be your constitutional right to bear arms Firebolt020283 but if you do leave the USA where else could you go to bear arms... mmmmmmmmm... maybe Iraq or some other troble spot in the world, becaue the reality is that most "civilised countries" do not need or want to bear arms. you may be right in this statment but i dont live in those countrys i live in the USA and i can bear bare arms and i will continue to do so. Not just for protection but also for the fact that i like to go to shooting ranges and shoot my ar15 (a3 version). And for some of us it is a hobbie to collect guns why take that away? | ||
| Aaron |
You forgot the most important condition, Kaudette. The original intent of the 2nd Amendment is clear when you study it's history: it was put there to protect us from the government. And that is just as applicable today as it was then, perhaps more so. | ||
| Ingemar |
Just for my interest, can I find the Amendments online somewhere? Thanks! Ingemar. | ||
| P0p0k0pf |
Here ya go Ing-- http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/help/constRedir.html | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
Bill of Rights Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Amendment II A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. Amendment III No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law. Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Amendment V No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. Amendment VI In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense. Amendment VII In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law. Amendment VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html thats the site i got this from | ||
| Mikej |
Here you go Ingemar, http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Amend.html | ||
| Road_thing |
When I took the Texas concealed carry course, our instructor explicitly warned us against using handloaded ammunition for personal defense. His reason was that, in the event of a shooting with handloads, the injured party's attorneys would make the shooter look very bad in court: "Isn't it true that you handloaded the bullet(s) you used to shoot my client so that they would be even more deadly than regular store-bought ammunition?" That had never occurred to me. I have, however, had a few misfires with my reloads. That rarely happens with factory ammo. Here's a really bad scenario: "Get out of my house! I have a gun, and I'll shoot!" "I'm gonna kill you and your family, and your little dog, too!" "I warned you!" Click. Click. Click. rt |
