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Buellcruiser20
Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

please let me see pictures of peoples ways that they have done str8 pipes because i really like the sound of harley davidson buells and i just wanna see some pictures of what people have done with there pipes and wut kind of designs.
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Youll get two million and one comments here on this subject. IT'll kill the bottom end, but make a monster out the top. I didn't straight mine but I opened the muffler and pulled out the crossover tube. Sounds great to me!
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Buellcruiser20
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 01:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

so basically vegas wut ur saying is ill loose a hell of alot of bottom end but at the top end it will raise it alot more. its like right now i dont know what happend but the flang pipe going into the muffler broke so i just snapped it off the rest of the way and it sounds actually pretty mean i kinda like it but kinda loud and annoying at the same time expecially when ya just get back from meeting a girl and trying to get into her nieghborhood quietly lol. but yeah man i noticed it alot around top end.
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 07:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thats about it. It is all rider preference. I like mine like that. It'll still wheelie going into second! And yup... they sound reallly mean! There are a couple folks here who have piped the thing out with pipe from the collector to the tail. I hear that sounds good too. I haven't had any complaints about the sound. One of the neighbors in my condo complex says it sounds bad . It gets attention at the red lights too when it goes into that Harley lope.
Have fun with it man!
Nick
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Tripp
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 08:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

is'nt your bike backfiring though? i have the v&h ss2r and i blew out my baffles this summer and it sounded pretty cool but backfired and grumbled and definitely made less power down low. i ended up riding it like that for a few weeks, but after replacing the top end last year, the fear of hurting my motor made me run out and buy new packing which lasted about a week, and nobody wanted to ride behind me with all that fiberglass shooting out! so i ended up buying the ss2r replacement baffle $40, they had two to choose from, a medium baffle that rated for 85db and a race baffle that rated for 105db. i bought the race baffle and as soon as i installed it all the coughing and sputtering went away and it still sounds great!
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hey Tripp,
I dont get any backfire. I get some crackle/popping when gearing down or letting off from high revs but nothing serious at all. I've had it like that for about a month. Was the top end job due to the open muffler?
Nick
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 09:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Straight 2 into 2 pipes only work well at a certain rpm, determined by pipe length. At all other Rpm's you lose power, compared to a good 2 into 1 system, ( or 2 into 1 into 2, or with a crossover ) I suspect you need drag pipes that are longer than you'd think, to get good top end power, others here would know.

As far as noise goes, I admit I started my Cyclone without a muffler, once, to hear it. The tongue of flame & roar was gratifying, but I can't stand that much racket on a daily basis, without a major performance boost. ( loud, slow, cars & bikes offend my sense of proportion, a $300 coffee can size fart pipe on a Honda civic is a marketing joke, if you ask me... IMHO )
A Force system would be nearly as loud, as open pipes, but actually give you more power, if your bike is tuned right.
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Aesquire:
I guess we should all be thankful that some squid hasn't affixed the Folgers can underneath a Buell just yet!
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Buellcruiser20
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

lol vegas but yeah man i tryed to look for pictures of what guys have done with str8 pipes under there bike and i cant find any man its like if you could find me something id greatly appriciate it and also right now i just got a lil elbow on there its not even a pipe lol. but i noticed there is a bigggggggg gap now underneath my bike i could go enduro racing with the thing for christ sakes but buddy please find me some pix and ideas thanx much bye
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Bomber
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Cruis

the fact that you can't find much info on running straight pipes is good data all by itself -- it could very well mean that folks have tried it and found the lack of performance not worth the racket

there's a reason that straight piped baggers are slow throughout most of their rpm range, and there's a reason most sportbikes keep some sort of muffler in the exhaust stream
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Buellcruiser20
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

yeah its like i really dont care about the power really cuz its like i go up to deals gap probably once a month and u really dont need much power to be going threw there because if you go a lil bit to fast and loose controll all i gotta say is bye bye. lol. but the sound is great though but if there was a way to get that sound and more performance for cheap i would really do it . BUT I WANT EXAMPLES ON WUT PEOPLE HAVE DONE WITH THERE PIPES LOL. PLEASE lol
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Stealthxb
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Bigsherm9r's XB9R

1

2

3

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/64089.html
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 12:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Take a look here too:
http://www.geocities.com/buell_racing/muffler.html

That's what I did to mine.
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Cataract2
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 12:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Stealthxb With your pipe like that you need to change your name. I doubt you could sneek up on anyone with that pipe, but I bet it sounds bad also.
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Spiderman
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

the fact that you can't find much info on running straight pipes is good data all by itself -- it could very well mean that folks have tried it and found the lack of performance not worth the racket

Bomber I would beg to differ.
If Built corectly a straight pipe is a very tremendous power gain,
One thing is it HAS to be a 2 into 1 system

From there you can play around with Pipe Diameter.

I run a 1.25 inch head pipe with a 2 1/2 inch collector with a 2 1/2 inch pipe Straight back.

It is 9 HP more than stock header and Super trap
Fully Dyno Tuned in.

and 3x as loud.
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Darthane
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 01:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That's far from the only performance modification on MJ, though... ; )
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Bomber
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

spidey, your right of course, buit the power gain is not easily reached by simply running straight pipes --

ah well, I'm likely grumpy cuz I get tired of the wannabes on the straight piped baggers droning along at 20 mph getting folks all cranky --
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Aaron
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 01:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Susy's S1
Straight pipes, 138rwhp, 167mph.

Pipes primarily work on pressure waves. Waves are generated whenever the escaping exhaust is allowed to expand (steps, outlet, etc). Both positive and negative waves are generated. The idea is to get a negative wave to arrive at the chamber during overlap (that window in time when both valves are open) thus pulling on the carb and getting the next intake charge moving before the piston even starts pulling on it.

The problem is that the waves travel at the speed of sound regardless of the rpm of the engine. So a system designed to place a negative wave at the chamber during overlap at a certain rpm may be mistimed when you move 2000 rpm away. Might even get a positive wave instead, which causes a stand-off fog of fuel out the mouth of the carb and a rich spot in the a/f curve and poor cylinder fill.

Pipes can be designed to have a strong negative wave that's timed to work over a narrow rpm range, or a more diffused wave that's weaker but arrives over a broader rpm range. Mufflers & baffles are diffusion devices, as are megaphones. Back pressure is a side effect of some diffusion devices and causes pumping losses.

To design a pipe you need to have a good understanding of the exhaust velocity and temp (because temp affects the speed of sound), as well as what your goals are. Step placement and overall length are critical.

Get it right and it looks like this:
138 hp S1
("right" in this case means lots of top end power).
These pipes are designed to concentrate the wave and time it properly for 6700rpm, which is 88% of the intended power peak rpm. Horsepower is torque times rpm, you want power, make torque up high, and torque is all about cylinder fill. Anyway, notice how it's working against us at 4800rpm. A broad powerband wasn't a design goal for this system.

Get it wrong and it looks like this:
straight piped X1
This is an X1 a guy had us dyno. He had replaced the muffler with a straight piece of pipe. I told him there was nothing I could do with it, I can't tune that out.

Here's a reverse cone megaphone system that does a good job of diffusing with minimal losses:
my M2
Notice the broad torque curve with a couple of peaks. We're filling the cylinder over a wide range.

An approach I really like:
XB12
Notice the three torque peaks. You can see the transitions in between them. That's the muffler valve in the XB12. The pipe change it's length, and hence it's wave timing, on the fly.
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Bluzm2
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 01:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Aaron, You da man!
I hoped you would chime in on this one.
I love seeing your charts along with your explainations.

Thanks for taking the time.

Brad
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M1combat
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Aaron... Will you PLEASE design a system that incorporates the 12's valve. I know damn well that cutting that valve out of the stock pipe and using it in a non-epa controlled pipe will make a great pipe... Even if it's just a schematic that we could build ourselves. Maybe charge a donation for the papers? I'd be willing to pay pretty close to full slip-on money and do the work myself if I knew it would work.

Either that or I'm completely wrong and it's already as good as it can get...

I understand you may not have the time, but do you have any ideas?
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 02:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I liked the pic of Suzy doing 167 much better than the charts! Thanks Aaron.
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Spiderman
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That's far from the only performance modification on MJ, though...

Only thing done to MJ
Is cams, pipe an air cleaner everything else is stock Buell Parts.
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Darthane
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

LOL...yeah, but WHICH Buell's stock parts?
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Spiderman
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The one that makes the most HP duhhhhhh
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Cruiser.. had two great opportunities that made me love my pipes even more yesterday. First one... kinda sucked. I almost got smashed by a Mexican in one of these mini cars. He pulled right over on me, I jammed on the brakes and managed to dodge just as his back bumper passed along the front edge of my front tire. I pulled up beside him on the white line and asked him if he had seen me, and gave him the what fors. This little bonehead decides he is going to gun his little ricer car and run at me again. I laid down on the tank, revved the thing and did the absolute best burn out that I have ever done in my life. My point, great power for the burnout from a stop, awesome sound, and I managed to get out of the way of this lil azzhole. Have no idea what his issue was.
Second..pulling up to a redlight behind a little sportster and some older cruiser bike, they both turn around and give me a thumbs up. Next redlight the guy on the cruiser waves me up beside him and says "That thing sounds bad as he11". That was a great ending to what started as a crappy ride home.

Open 'er up and have fun!
Nick
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Tripp
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

sorry it took so long to reply but- no, my top end replacement was not due to my baffleless pipe, i believe it was due to an intake seal leak.
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Fullpower
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 02:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

heres a guy running a very simple exhaust system. seemed to run ok. his lady on the back was having fun.
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Buellcruiser20
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

hey wuts up everyone?

i actually just got back from daytona and the bike ran sweet and so many people looked at my bike like wow that sounds awesome lol. got 1 ticket for it in orlando in a housing comunity when i stopped by to see my girl lol. but i actually cut the flange that runs into the muffler off and just ran it str8 open i havent rejetted it yet but it runs fine and sounds mean. but thanx everyone for all of ur help. lol my girl says it sounds like a monster coming down the street at even idle lol. aight everyone take care and ride safe. bye.
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Jeremyh
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

i do have to make one comment here, yes some bottom end was lost but its not as if it was totally crashed, i still have a considerable amount of torque at the bottom. and its not as if this bike sits at the lower end for very long anyways, i love the top end rush, its just flat pissed off after about 3800.
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Buellcruiser20
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

yeah bro i love it it goes ape after 3800 and then bam ur gone lol. its like low end really doesnt matter to me but still its still there.
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Rick_a
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I've ran my Supertrapp external disc with no endcap. That's an open 2.5" core. Totally lost power off the bottom, midrange was amazing, and the top end was slightly better.

The sound was totally raucious and the tone changed dramatically with rpm...hard on the gas it sounded very "blatty." Good fun...but a compromise works best.
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