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Buell Motorcycle Forum » Quick Board Archives » Archive through October 20, 2004 » XB9 Manual offer (Blake read this one) « Previous Next »

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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Alright, I always hear guys telling other people to refer to the XB manual. I have an XB manual on CD and hard copy. I would be more than happy to offer the CD version to load on BadWeb if it is possible to do that. I imagine the only limiting factor would be bandwidth and cost. Any Takers?? Just trying to help out fellow XB riders.
Nick
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M1combat
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'd boycott it. AFAIK it's a rip-off of the actual manual and takes money from the pockets of a company I feel will use it more wisely than any other company making sport bikes.
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M1combat
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

GTFM
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 12:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

M1, I understand your feelings, but you know some folks get these bikes, and some cant afford the $70 that the dealers charge for them, and simply need a single torque spec or troubleshooting. I restore and repair antique radios as a hobby, and I have to tell you, if it were not for people that helped me with a manual excerpt here and there, it would be a hobby that I could not have continued with.
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Xb9er
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 01:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I already have the manual. I would not mind having the electronic version.

Mike.
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Court
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Place me right smack dab in the middle.

I UNDERSTAND the "guy can't afford it" argument, I do not accept it. If anyone here is truly in that situation, I'd like to know...I'll help. I'm not asking those of you to whom I have sent FREE Buell manuals to raise your hands, you know who you are.

I BUY the "I'd boycott" and applaud it. While willing to temper my Buell flag waving loyalty, I also know the folks at Buell and Harley-Davidson Tech Pubs who work so hard to prepare what is arguably the best manual in motorcycling. To distribute "gray market" copies is akin to taking food off these fine folks' tables.

This is not an argument, it is a statement of fact. I disagree with neither of the opinions, I do have my own.

That being said, please know that I have not yet exhausted the case of 1996 S-1 Buell Service Manual CDs. These were reproduced by one of our very own and the only reason I condoned/participated/and distributed them was due to the fact that Buell had discontinued them.

Court (Rocket is right, I sound like a darn preacher)

: )
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So that explains the S1 manuals found on some sites around the web. Seems I have seen one for a Blast on another Buell related site, but not sure.

And that is truly all I was offering.. to help the ones that need it. For the ones that turn their noses up to those folks, I hope you never need a hand on the side of the road some day.

Forget I ever mentioned it.. and if anyone needs a certain torque spec or help troubleshooting some ECM code or whatever, my email is always open.
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Wyckedflesh
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 03:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Vegas, when anyone asks a manual question then states they don't have one or can't get one, invariably one of us that does jumps to their aid. We might scan or copy the specific page or just simply type out what the needed value is. As much as I would love to have an electronic manual in PDF, I would rather pay BUELL for that. Then I know the money is going back into Buell's coffers. And yes I do copy and download music. But I still go out and buy the original if its something I like.
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 03:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

ohh man, I didn't even compare the music thing. I wished I had a hard drive that would allow it. I hear you on buying the others too. I did that with the manual. I paid 10 cents on ebay for the CD, and then went the next week and bought the print manual at our local dealer.

and... thats cool if it actually works out that way.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Forget the ethics for the moment, I would bet dollars to doughnuts there is a copyright notice in said manual.

We can't post it here if we wanted.

I don't mind paying for the service manual. I do get a little annoyed buying the parts manual. All I can use it for is for good exploded diagrams (which arguably should have been in my service manual) and part numbers (that are only useful for telling a Buell dealer what I want to give them money for).

But regardless... if it has copyright on it, we can't post it. Regardless of the ethics, it's against the law.
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Bomber
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

the music thing and the manual thing have a great deal in common -- as does bootlegged software -- while I, to, can't quite bring myself to come down on one side of the discussion on another, I do know that bootlegged software costs the folks that actually buy is a great deal

as an ex-creator of manuals, I love the idea of the information getting into the hands of as many folks as possible -- I also liked the idea of my employer being as profitable as possible -- a gordean knot, for sure

and, vegas, folks DO help each other out with torque values and the like almost daily round here -- one of the reasons this joint is so valuable
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Court
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>-- a gordean knot, for sure

Cool...I haven't heard that reference in a while!

Vegas, right you are about the need to help each other. I have every (save 2004 and 2004) service manual, parts manual, owners manual and PDI since 1987 and I usually respond to requests (with photos and numbers) within minutes. Therein lies the power of this board and no one holds the IP rights to helping one another.

Your topic is good, you write with clarity, you have been honest, factual and have threatened to put no one in a head lock and become the victim of a noogy if they help even slightly differing views.

Gads, look like you win a BUELL PRIZE. E-mail me your address.

Court
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 05:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

.....>>Your topic is good, you write with clarity, you have been honest, factual and have threatened to put no one in a head lock and become the victim of a noogy if they help even slightly differing views.

Nahhh.. Court, there are way too many things happening in the world to put people in a head lock over than being upset if someone has a different opinion.

And..ok, I'll mail ya.

Nick
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Gowindward
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Okay..Here's one if the guys at the plant actual lurk here. :-) Put the service and parts manuals on their web site in PDF format and save the money of actually printing hard copies. The $50 to $60 dollars to bring the manuals I would be is not profitable for Buell. It's not like they are on the NY Times best sellers list and they are printing 5 million copies.
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Tom_b
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 06:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Great idea Vegas, just against the law and possibly cause problems for Blake. But it is good of you to offer
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Court
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>Okay..Here's one if the guys at the plant actual lurk here. :-)

Let me toss in a thought that's one part fact and sounds like 3 parts cold water.

The decision is not up to the guys at the plant. If it were, I suspect you'd have seen the 1996 effort (the first of it's kind in motorcycling) grow.

This is both a "good thing" and a "bad thing". Some folks here are familiar with what goes into creating a manual and the story is as funny as it is complex. Imagine trying to write a documentary detailing (remember it has to be deadly accurate or your butt is sued) the Yankees game tomorrow night...easy until you complicate the process by having to have it complete by 2:00PM Sunday. That's the story of tech pubs.

Here are a few purely made up quotes.....

"look your design has been frozen as of Tuesday, where are the CAD drawings?"(that would be a Thursday quote)

"look we sent the CAD drawings last Monday, if you want us to proof the draft you better have it to East Troy by Friday."(that would be a Tuesday quote)

"Hello Earnest?...yeah, can you change that 9/16" bolt to a Grade 8 5/8"? No, I'm not sure what page, you know THE 9/16" SAE one"

"Uh...how'd the M-2 end up with a rebound reservoir in the pictures, the bike doesn't have one? (that would be a 1997 quote)

Anyway...you get my drift. It's a great idea that (shudder cause here comes Erik Buell's two favorite targets) bureaucracy and politics (POO) won't allow it to function as smoothly as it has to....at least for now.

I am not from the factory, but I hope that provides a humorous glimpse.

Court
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Vegasbueller
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 06:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Tom:
Thanks! It was one of those ideas...kinda like Bungee jumping. It sounds real good at the start, but somewhere about the jumping off point, it turned into.. "ohhh sheite"
But...as it turns out anyway, it seems like for the most part, there are a lot of guys here that are willing to help out when someone really needs it anyway.

Nick
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Blake
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If you can get BMC to approve, I'm all for it. : )
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


quote:

"Uh...how'd the M-2 end up with a rebound reservoir in the pictures, the bike doesn't have one? (that would be a 1997 quote)




Pay attention to that person, they are apparently a prophet ; )
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