| Author | Message | ||
     Raraf |
Mile High HD/Buell is no longer carrying them. I went there to have my TPS reset. Told me that they won't even be servicing them soon. NOTHING was in the store related to Buell and they told me any remaining Buell items will be on Ebay. At the rate they are folding up here in the US, we will be purchasing on a preorder basis only! | ||
| Mikej |
It would be interesting to know the number of "listed as a Buell dealer" shops at the beginning of 2004 compared to the number currently or projected to the end of 2004. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Posted by Ronin over on the Borg. "Ronin Member # 113 posted 10-12-2004 10:19 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Havent been here in a couple of years, hell I am sure most of you dont remember me. Anyways just wanted to let you all know that Buell announced that they will begin contracting dealerships immediatly and continue till they feel the dealership structure is sparse enough that Buell dealerships are not competing against other Buell dealerships for vehicle sales. This could be the beginning of the end. Please dont kill the messenger. Later" | ||
| Mikej |
Yeah, I saw that over there. Seems kind of funny that they can have a whole bunch of Harley shops with overlapping territory here and yet they don't want inter-shop competition between the Buell representatives (If the statement is true and if active actions are being taken behind the scenes). Wonder what the real story is. Also wonder how many finger blisters Danny gets typing in his disclaimer on the same thread.  So, let's see, Daves is probably safe up in Appleton, unless Doc's has more corporate influence. Down here in the Milwaukee region I guess WestBend/Hartford will drop or be dropped due to overlapping influence between them and Hal's and Milwaukee and Suburban, and House-of-H if you include their Blast sales. Next will probably be Suburban if the trade-in inquiry response I got is any indication, hope not though as they have a nice standard discount policy on parts for known customers. I'd suspect Milwaukee will then be next on the list for the culling of the herd. Leaving Hal's as the Milwaukee-Metro Buell representative. What do you think, think I'm close on the appraisal? Time will tell. | ||
| Bomber |
I don't see an end in this message -- perhaps a recognition that the sales have gotten tothe point that they (corporate) wants Buell Dealers to compete with other brnads, rather than with each other -- eating your own young is no way to expand sales -- if dropping some "iffy" dealerships takes place, it's for the good, I believe Mike -- Isn't Milwaukee owned by an ex-HD exec? | ||
| Mikej |
Hope your right, but kind of hard to get potential customers drive past three Harley shops and nine non-Harley shops just to get to their now nearest Buell shop. But I'm just out here in the customer realm and have no direct knowledge of what the corporate plans really are over the next 12-60 months. And, yep, Milw. is owned by a former H-D Exec. And your question is? | ||
| Bomber |
Mike -- if I was a Buell heavy-weight (lighten up, I've lost 20 since quitting tombacco!), one of the issues that would be top on my hit list was poor dealers last figures I saw was some time ago, but the cost of gaining a new customer was enormous compared to keeping an existing one (let loose the "I miss my tuber" hounds here ;-}), like on the order of ten times the cost a dealer selling 4 or 5 bikes year and cheesing off all of their customers contributes to things like, oh, I dunno, Buells poor quality reputation, which they are just now climbing out of, in many circles could be they read this, and other boards, where people routinely way they'd drive 50-100 miles to a good dealer rather than go to a bad one selling 5 bikes at 5 dealers (25 total) is likely less desrieable than selling 25 at one dealer that takes good care of their customers. I can remember a couploe of the "good guys" complaining that they can't get product, while we all know of some shops that have them languishing back by the shovelhead chrome . . . . . me too, that is, no insight into the Iron Tower, but it sounds like they may be helping Darwinism in dealership land look for a reversal of this process instantly, or sooner, if sales sag Mil HD's owner may swing more wieght than other dealers, and, therefor, may be able to hang on to Buell, if he wishes . . . . just a guess, the old boy's network survives most everywhere | ||
| Mikej |
Okay, I've got a few minutes here before heading off to school..... poor dealers: Modesto comes to mind. It's harder to get a new good dealer than it is to keep an existing good dealer. cost of customer maintenance: a) keeping an existing customer - give them what they want based on their known buying habits. I have an M2 and an S2, nothing in the current product structure compares (for me anyway), and parts are being obsoleted, bye bye. b) gaining a new customer - it appears the XB's are doing this, time will tell how it works out. A dealer selling only 4 or 5 bikes a year should have dropped the line after the first year - regardless of the reason for the low sales, unless they have a plan to attack the low volumes. (Bubba comes to mind on this one.) A good reputation takes years to build, and seconds to destroy, and decades to rebuild. Wounds heal, but scars remain. Do what they can to recover and move forward, sometimes lost is lost, sometimes not, sometimes you go back to try and retrieve the lost, sometimes you see them as past history and look elsewhere for future growth. (Now I'm wondering if babyboomer demographic transition is playing a part in this marketing program.) Sometimes the "old boys" like the old toys and don't play so well with the new stuff, sometimes. Put four grandparents into a living room with a mutual grandchild and turn on the PlayStation. One grandparent may quickly get down on the floor and grab a controller and start playing along with the little one and have a grand ol' time. Another grandparent may admonish the first one about not acting their age. A third one may be curious, but may not be able to get down on the floor so instead simply smiles and nods and laughs along. A fourth grandparent is asleep and dreaming of days long gone by, only to wake up and wonder if anyone is in the restroom and begin to plot their path down the hallway noting grabrails and obstacles along the way while being totally oblivious to everything else save for the smell of roast beef cooking in the crock pot in the kitchen which is what woke them up in the first place and caused them to decide to make a pre-trip in preparation for the evening meal. The old boys network, good, bad, indiferent, is always there in some form or another, even oftimes being disguised as the new boys network - just as exclusive and ensconced in the games of favoritism. For me, for now, I can only afford to watch the show and make a few nosebleed seat comments from the distant far right field behind the lightpole hoping beyond hope that one day a flyball will find it's way to these distant reaches in this stadium of life. | ||
| Bomber |
good points, Mike -- strange, b ut I doubt if Honda riders watch their factory as close as Buellists watch theirs | ||
| Mikej |
Yep, when I had a Honda I never watched the factory, nor bothered much with dealership issues, nor discussion forums. Same as when I had a Suzuki, a Yamaha, a Montessa. (Hmmm, not sure if I even knew where the Montessa factory was back then apart from somewhere in Spain where they didn't know how to torque flywheel bolts.) I just rode the dang things. When I used to have a "Harley" I did watch the factory a little, but only to see what they were up to. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
I dont give 2 5hits what the Yamaha factory does. They make great bikes & thats all I care about. I also dont participate in Yamaha forums because I just dont care for the people. I like old bastards like us  | ||
| Reepicheep |
You know, I never even thought of it, but after the Cincinnati purge, there is only one Cincy Buell dealer, and one Dayton Buell dealer (probably 60 miles apart). Tri County Harley was one of the "token dealers"... they made a half hearted effort, but were never serious about the brand, and promptly dropped 'em. I was happy to see them do so, I tried to support them, and it cost me a lot of pain. For that same 60 mile radius, I think there is maybe only two yamaha dealers that I can think of, one Ducatti dealer, one Aprilla dealer, one BMW dealer, two Suzuki dealers, and maybe 3 Honda dealers. Of those Honda dealers, they are mostly dirt bikes, not a lot of street bikes. So maybe it's just me, but it seems like Buell is actually ahead of the curve for volume of bikes moved versus number of local dealers. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Buell averages 7 bikes per dealer per year sold. BMW has some crazy figure like 125 bikes per dealer per year sold. | ||
| Bomber |
counting the bike shops within thirty minutes of my house today, comaped to 5-10-20 years ago, let's just say that chicken little has accurately predicted 17 out of the last 2 industry downtrends lot's less dealers, lots more bikes being sold, better bikes . . . . . hey, what's not to like here? ;-} | ||
| Glitch |
Bomber and Mike, thanks for ya'll thoughts. At first I was WTF do they think they're doing. Now I think it's a good thing to drop 'em if they're not performin'.  | ||
| Daves |
I see this as a new beginning, not a prelude to the end. The poor dealers out there who don't like or want Buell and it shows have only accomplished to totally screw up the market for all of us, good dealers and customers alike. By not wanting to do Buell the right way, they have driven customers away in hoards, ruined the resale of Buells by dumping the new bikes at cost or below or selling them on Ebay(which is against the dealer agreement they signed). By thinning the herd of Buell dealers things will slowly turn around in these areas. Buell riders will get better service(even if they may have to go farther for it),prospective Buell riders will get the treatment they deserve as far as product presentation,follow up,invitation to join the local BRAG chapter and all the other things that the bikes/other riders have to offer. Soon your trades will be worth more,the remaining Buell dealers will be able to sell more bikes per dealer for a better profit margin(profit is not a dirty word, you just have to justify/earn it). That will make the remaining dealership owners happier with their Buell business,opening the way for more of them putting up with the likes of me, spending money on Buell events and promotions and acting like a madman when it comes to Buell. They will be able to justify hiring a Buell expert that knows,lives,rides,LOVES the bikes. Yes, things are looking up, not down or back. The bikes are better than ever before,they are getting more good press than ever before. they are on Two Wheel Tuesday right now! The Buells will be on the podium next year in Formula Extreme(unless the AMA screws them with rule changes). This month alone(and it's only the 12th) I have gotten 3 calls from other Buell guys and gals at dealerships wanting my thoughts on the Buell biz ,starting their own BRAG clubs ,holding BattleTrax events and sportbike days in their areas. Yes, I could go on for hours about this topic and probably will but I'm going to have some supper and check back in later. Oh, and PS, I think I'm safe! Ride to the edge! Dave | ||
| Gowindward |
I agree with Dave! This is just a thinning of the herd so to speak. Does anyone know how many bikes Buell sells/ manufactures in a year? | ||
| Koz5150 |
as of the end of June the 2004 total was 5,321 (roughly 3.3% of total bikes sold by Harley, 1.8% of all sales) (Message edited by koz5150 on October 12, 2004) | ||
| Gsxr_is_gone |
Well, out here in AZ, we only have the shity dealer still selling Buell. When I went to buy my 04, they wanted 14,000.00 out the door. Don't remember if that was with a race kit or not. But I do remember that they want 900.00 for the race kit, not installed. No, they did not get my money. | ||
| Mikej |
" I like old bastards like us " After next May I'm going to find a t-shirt or bumper sticker with something about old bastards on it. " Soon your trades will be worth more " Can I quote you on that?????  By the way, aren't you supposed to be out in the woods someplace tracking a buck? Relative to the number of units sold, it'd be real interesting to know the numbers of bikes sold per dealership as opposed to an average overall number of all dealers. Let's see, if the average is 7 per shop, and if Daves sells 21 all by himself, then that means two shops didn't sell any to keep the averages accurate. Or something like that. | ||
| Daves |
Sure you can quote me. You don't think that dealers dumping the new bikes affects the resale of everyone's bikes? Just the opposite was happening for years with HDs, dealers getting premiums(over MSRP) for the new bikes held up the value of used ones. I start hunting on Sat. Can't wait! The deer are already getting nervous! Dave | ||
| Mikej |
Yep, dealers dumping bikes always affects the used bike market. Part of the reason why the end of the riding season is not one of the best times to sell a used bike. It's going to be real interesting to watch the custom bike and chopper market over the next year or four. And just this morning I saw a U-Haul truck go past on the freeway with Iowa license plates on it. Had a banner duct-taped to the door saying DC or Bust. Funny thing is it was being driven by a 6-point buck, probably went about 350Lbs or so, had a couple of does in the front cab as well. They forgot to shut the cargo door though, as it went past I was able to look in the back and saw about another 50 or so deer piled in there and I swear I heard one of them mutter something about avoiding Appleton at all costs and urging the driver-deer to hit the gas a little more. The truck also had an open trailer towed behind full of corn and apples, and there was some small spike balancing on the trailer tongue grabbing ears of corn and apples out of the trailer and passing them up to the other deer in the back of the truck for snacks. All I can figure is that they must read the BadweB and found out you were on the way to Iowa this weekend and they wanted to get out of town before you get there.  Have a good hunt. | ||
| Slaughter |
OK pardon my ignorance but back in the beginning, weren't the HD shops TOLD to sell Buells - regardless of their enthusiasm? I would hate to own a franchise in a BBQ restaurant chain and get told by the owner that I had to start selling seafood in addition to my BBQ ribs because they took over a seafood distribution operation. Maybe I'd get behind it but if my customers were only interested in BBQ, I'd not be too enthused about it and would be relieved if I was told after a couple years I no longer had to sell sushi. I also think the thinning of the herd is a good thing (maybe because we have a good Buell dealer here in Glendale CA) (Message edited by slaughter on October 13, 2004) | ||
| Daves |
Mike, that is classic! Dave | ||
| Court |
Ignorance pardoned. >>>weren't the HD shops TOLD to sell Buells - regardless of their enthusiasm? No, that never happened. | ||
| Raraf |
Well, public perception is everything. I have only heard here that Buell is thinning the herd. But every dealership says "They don't sell, so we dropped them". The average Joe is hearing the latter. I think thinning the herd is crap here in Denver cuz ALL the Buell dealers suck. I will be forced to go to 1 dealership where they can try to gouge me even more because they will be a monopoly! Our resale value will go up because we will have collector bikes. I don't care...I love my bike. I have the service manual. Engine parts will be around forever due to the Sportster just gotta mount pucks everywhere so as to not damage the irreplaceable frame! | ||
| Gowindward |
Let that six point and the spike and all the does get the heck out of town. Dave will be after that ever elusive "Thirty Point Buck" I see an opportunity in the making. Only a few good Buell dealers.....Lots of poor Buell dealers and a possible thinning of the herd. How about pooling all all of our retirement funds and Opening six or so Buell "Mecca" stores that draw people who aren't even into motorcycles into the store. It's not just about motorcycles...it's a lifestyle that draws people to a true "brand" Look at H-D. You don't go into a motorcycle shop when you walk into a H-D store. You walk into a H-D lifestyle store. They don't sell motorcycles...they are selling a lifestyle. That's why and how they made a comeback from the AMF years. Buell is a "boutique" brand. If they don't realize that they need too, to become a huge success. IMHO! | ||
| Mikej |
 | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Glass half full or half empty? | ||
| Bomber |
of course the dealers are saying they don't sell, so we're dropping them -- they are not going to say "we don't know how to sell them, we don't want to learn, we ain't interested, so we're dropping them" me, I'm thinking the glass is half full, and getting fuller (izzat the right word?) -- some will miss the days when you could get all the buellists from a state together in a phone booth, but the price of being a brand that has good availability, good aftermarket parts, decent service availability, and isn't in danger of disappearing is growth -- seems HDI has some growth plans, and I'm pleased to see that folks also complain that Buell ain't mainstream (hard to find dealers, for instance) as Honda, but also extol the virtue of riding something different and unusual . . . can't have it both ways thinning the herd is a good analogy -- Darwin is painful for individuals, but good for the speicies |
