| Author | Message | ||
     Ingemar |
I hate this government! Damn I hate this country! We send soldiers to Iraq, they are supposed to patrol, keep the peace, and help with the rebuilding in the areas they are in etc. Oke... A few months ago a dutch marine (Erik O.) got involved in defending a certain area when it got raided by Iraqis who started plundering the houses and shops. Guns were being fired. Bullets flying around. This brave man followed his orders. He defended the area. People got hurt. One man died. The dutch government is now putting Eric O. on trial for murdering an innocent Iraqi civilian. HE IS FOUND GUILTY OF MURDER! The discussion started by our government was about if our soldiers were even allowed to carry guns or not (WTF!?!?). Maybe I'm just plain stupid but there's a bloody war going on ... soldiers.... war ... no guns ? Damn, what are they supposed to do? Throw rocks to berserk Iraqis raiding and killing them and their own people?!? GET THIS!! IT HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN THAT THE BULLET FROM ERIC O.'S GUN KILLED THE IRAQI!!! IN FACT, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN AN AUTOPSY!!! THE BULLET HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND! The description of the man that died in the hospital doesn't even fit the desciption of the Eric O. and his colleagues. Several saw a man go down, but Eric and his collueque's testimony on the case was that they were firing IN THE AIR! WARNING SHOTS!! Damn it! This man is going to jail and is treated like a criminal! I'm pissed. Thanx for bearing with me, Ingemar. | ||
| Kevyn |
Read Joseph Heller's "Catch-22". Insanity on a grand scale. Did you know that the Marines guarding the Beirut barracks were not allowed to have their ammunition clips inserted while guarding the gates and had to call for authority to use their weapons? Those two reasons alone allowed the tanker truck bomber to reach the barracks... Never again. What can we do to help Eric O.? | ||
| Bomber |
this is truly wrong -- put a man in harm's way, tell him to do a job, then jail him for doing so . . . . sheeesh , , , , , like Kev says, can we help? petitions? letters to gubmint? assault at oh-dark-thrity? | ||
| M2me |
A coalition of the bribed and coerced. He forgot about Poland. Oh, never mind! | ||
| Chainsaw |
Damn shame man! Peacekeeping can be dangerous business. I'm wondering if the people that convicted Eric O. would so much as stroll down that same street without an armed escort and body armor. Is there an appeals process? Are there different Rules of Evidence in this sort of trial than a normal criminal proceeding? Rwanda, 1990 something, 12 Belgian Peace keepers under the UN we guarding the female Prime Minister without the authority to defend themselves. Thugs came to take her, they had to surrender. Thugs killed her within minutes, the Belgians were tortured first. Prior to the incident, Kofe Anan (sp?) had received intelligence that the Thugs planned on killing the PM and sending the Belgians home in body bags to persuade the Belgian UN contingent to leave. The Canadian head of the UN mission in Rwanda had visited the leader of the Thugs and saw the Belgians in distress inside the Thugs compound. He made no attempt, diplomatically or by force, to save those 12 men.this all according to a PBS special WTF! Giving these guys guns with no bullets (or the authority to use them)? How are they supposed to stop these guys? Harsh language? | ||
| Whodom |
I recall reading that sailors on the deck of the U.S.S. Cole were in the same situation- either no bullets or not authorized to fire. Watched guys drive up in power boat loaded with explosives and they were powerless to stop them. Sorry to hear about your countryman Ingemar. | ||
| Brucelee |
Soldiers in harms way need to have all the firepower that is appropriate. Then in the event of an issue, the soldier should be presumed innocent. Any other govt policy is deadly and hypocritical. How about the Dutch govt types be sent to Iraq? | ||
| SouthernMarine |
That SUCKS. | ||
| Ethanr |
And Kerry thinks we must operate through the U.N.? Oops...wrong thread.  | ||
| Mikej |
"Harsh language?" That is exactly what they think, except when it comes to their own protection then different rules apply. Sorry to hear about the so called trial and conviction. With news like this I dare say they don't/won't get many volunteers to go into harm's way. | ||
| Ingemar |
Btw, there wasn't any shooting going on, except for a few warning shots from our men when stones were being thrown. The shots were fired in the sand aimed away from the mob. They wanted an autopsy, but according to the dutch minister of justice the man in question was already buried and 'unburying' the dead for autopsies is not allowed. | ||
| Blake |
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| Careyj |
We should pull out all troops and turn that 1,000 mile area into a sheet of glass!!!! Problem solved. | ||
| Hans |
There is more to say about the case of Eric O. First: He is not yet convicted: Only the suggested punishment from the prosecutor. And that was not jail, but 240 hours forced labor in governmental duty, apart from the 6 months military detention in case of repeated "crime". And not for murder, but for neglecting the fire instructions. Second: The small group of soldiers told exactly the same story, but it was Eric O himself who did not stick to it. Eric is an older and very well trained, and even experienced, sergeant major. And third, and most important: There are politics involved. He came not for a military tribunal but a civil one. There is friction between the department of justice and the department of defense. Fact: When a military prosecutor is processing a real crime and the Minister of Defense decides that prosecution endangers the State: There will be no process anymore and there are no dossiers anymore. You can imagine, that ugly things can be covered up "to not endanger the State". Eric will NOT be fired from the army, (unless a real crime would have been proven, and that can`t be expected.) My vision is that the situation was not very threatening: Mob came up, clearly to plunder a container from a truck which had a road accident. Instead of a few warning shots in the air, which could have been enough, at least one shot was in the sand in front of the mob: To be more impressive. Man was hit by the ricochet. Unlucky war accident. I think, that Eric O will come off with a mild punishment for neglecting the instructions that warning shots have to be fired, NOT in the direction of the subject. That he will be cleaning up kindergarten-play-grounds for a few weeks and that will be all. And possible suspicion that war crimes will be covered up will be avoided. No big thing, except for the victim ! Hans | ||
| Ingemar |
Thanks Hans! You are absolutely right about avoiding war crimes. It's really the whole deal around it (the miscommunication, documents about Eric's past leaking, the fake promises of the dutch troops safety) etc etc. There is so much more surrounding the whole deal that caused me to rant .... I'm pretty sure though that the day before I posted this I heard on the news that he could get 6 months jail AND 240 hours forced labor. I strongly disagree that it's not a big thing! It is, just as about everything that is going on lately. Our government sucks Hans. Big time. Ingemar. |
