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Archive through September 23, 2004Blake30 09-23-04  04:24 pm
         

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Rick_a
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hell, I've known a rider of almost 20 years riding cruisers who even purchased a Ninja 250 first to acclimate himself to sportbikes...flipped his new Ducati Monster.
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Mikej
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 04:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If the prices were more reasonable I'd really like to have one of those little Aprilia 50cc sportbikes or the Honda 50cc CafeRacer replica.

It's not about how fast you go, it's about the experience of getting there, the enjoyment of the ride, the application of the tools or attributes of a bike coupled with experience both learned and understood, interacted with the conditions and situation at hand at any given moment in time during the ride.
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Bomber
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

WHile I firmly agree that the difficulties lie in one's head, I also know that training an greatly assist in getting one's mind in the right place --

along with attitude and focus, muslce memory plays a part, and ain't no one gonna get much of that if, as Blake sez, they are focusing on sheer survival for a long time . . . . .

all that said, there's way to guide folks, and not scare them, but they, of course, are responsible for wanting to be guidable --

I would give a lot to be able to go back in time, and get some good training before I had alot of seat time . . . would saved some big dough, not to mention some knee parts ;-}
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Rocketman
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 08:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The brain is a clever thing. Only an idiot could possibly open the throttle of a modern 600 to an extreme that their inexperienced arse tells them they're in trouble.

All this talk of todays 600's being this fast and that powerful, and in the wrong hands.........

Listen, they're easy, comfortable and not in the least wicked in their power delivery. 'Wicked' and 'very very quick' are NOT the same thing. It's all in your head. For me confidence in one's own ability is a paramount asset to hold when riding a motorcycle. Pass that on to a novice and you're putting them on the right track.

Here's some things to consider.

Are you confident enough to ride a dirt bike over a 10 or 15 feet high cliff with a vertical drop to the bottom?

Can you confidently place both feet on the foot pegs when riding off at very slow speeds, or do you need to keep at least one foot dangling close to the ground?

Can you ride through three lanes of 'nose to tail' congested traffic, constantly having to change lanes, without fear of touching another vehicle, or worse, falling off?

Do you believe in God?

Has Ferris really been abducted by aliens?

Rocket
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Blake
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 12:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Overconfidence in my ability to handle a motorcycle has caused me to crash twice. I suspect others fall victim to their egos similarly. Many have died because of it.

A repli-racer is no beginner's bike. To argue otherwise is silly.
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Newfie_buell
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 12:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I would not want to see that kind of bike in the hands of some students that pass the MSF course.

Others no problem
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Rocketman
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 04:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Who said anything about OVERconfidence?

My friend went straight from his test pass at age 26, having never owned a motorcycle - period, hardly ever ridden one either, and bought himself a 1998 CBR600FY.

He studied his options carefully. Took his training seriously, and his riding too, and he's a more than capable and competent rider who still takes his motorcycling seriously.

I have another friend who passed his test about 6 years ago. He's more my age (over 40) and has spent his adult years in the business of vintage and veteran motorcycles. Over the years having ridden a few very old machines around the block he decided he liked the feel of riding so took his test.

This friends first purchase into the modern world of motorcycles was a 'foxeye' Fireblade. He kept it for a year or so and cut his teeth on it. His second purchase a Triumph 955i, and then to a 1999 R1. He too has enjoyed every minute of his motorcycling experience, takes it seriously, and never has he, or my other friend thus mentioned, fallen off or hit anything.

Blake, don't keep telling me or implying in every freekin thread I'm silly or an idiot. I don't just write this shite because I can. I write it because it is, in my experience, fact. I would never recommend anyone buy a 600cc sports motorcycle if I thought they were an idiot on a bike or had the wrong attitude. I would however recommend that kind of motorcycle to someone who had a total enthusiasm for what they were about to embark upon, no matter what their experience, providing they're of the right mindset to understand what they're about to do.


Rocket
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Blake
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I wouldn't argue that there are some uniquely qualified individuals capable of safely learning to ride their very first time on a repli-racer.

In general though, that is not advisable. In considering the topic issue of this thread that Rick started by asking... "There's a young girl in my place of work purchasing a first new bike. She wants a CBR600F4i, which I think would be a lot of bike for a newbie rider (zero experience). The 600 class isn't what it used to be. I tried to steer her towards an SV650 for a sporty alternative, but no luck. Opinions?", I agree with Rick. You do not. "I'm sorry but I disagree. The current crop of 600's are just so easy to ride that no one has to get into trouble on one.

Someone buying a 600 as a starter bike must have enough brain cells to understand what they're getting into."


I know that far too many young inexperienced riders end up in the hospital or worse for me to agree with you or back down on this point.

A repli-racer is a terrible first-time motorcycle for someone with "zero experience." To argue otherwise IS silly. I don't understand why you choose to argue the point.

I will concede that an F4i is probably the best of the repli-racers for a beginner as its ergonomics are not as pure racetrack oriented as say the gixer 600 or R6.

I also agree that the power delivery of a 600 is not a problem and is in fact quite forgiving when operated in the lower rev range of the engine.

But the rest... the frame mounted fairing, the still aggressive ergos, the touchy brakes, the significant power, all make that bike a poor choice for anyone trying to learn motorcycling for the very first time. This is nothing different that what the motorcycle safety people themselves will tell us.
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Newfie_buell
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't think Rocket is an idiot!!!

You do make a valid point - I'll give you an example.

A good friend of mine (Mark - Grumpy and da boys met him) is a very careful, capable rider and he is a young guy (22). I would trust him with any of my vehicles as I know he is very careful, I have known others who should be much more mature that I would never let go near my machines.

I also have another friend that passed the MSF Course and went out and bought a Ninja 600. She never rode anything before and is now one of the best riders I have ever seen.

The squid guys around here lay their bikes down for a past time and I am surprised there are no deaths.

The fact of the matter is that everyone is different and will treat motorcycling the way they see it. Your always going to have the thrill seekers, show-offs, etc, etc, etc and they are the ones that usually lose it. Some others are just unfortunate to be the victim of some inattentive driver.



Rocket,

Doesn't Britan have some kind of graduated licensing system that keeps new riders from the larger dispalcement bikes?
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Wyckedflesh
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Rocket we are being asked to asses a rider we do not know, with every rule there are always exceptions. I too know people who have never ridden that I feel would have no problem starting out with an R1 for the same reasons you described above. However, a very large number of new riders out there don't have even half of that confidence, what they have is ego. They have peer pressure from outside sources influencing their want to ride. From the gist of the initial post, that is the impression I get of this girl, that there is an outside influence on her desire to ride that is pressureing her to wanting the CBR.
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Jmartz
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 02:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There is something to be said for perception. My 1st serious bike was a 1969 Bonneville. Everyone told me it was too much for me. Compare the 43 HP it made to today's over 100 HP 600's. These babies are weak at the low end but beware when they scream. It is amazing how design and efficiency have come this far where an engine 1/2 the size of the one in my S1 can outperform 1/4 mile times.

Who said we only need to have one bike?
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Rocketman
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 04:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blake, gentlemen, please, I'm not arguing the issue, simply stating an opinion.

I'm sick of hearing those who know what's best for the rest of us when it comes to riding. That's a generalization by the way and not a reference to anyone in this thread. Give the young chic some sound advice. If she buys the CBR6 then help her. She's got bottle, even if she's pushed somewhat by peer pressure or she wants to show off. Hell I'm still like that now and I survived. That's what it's all about.

Rocket
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Charlieboy6649
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I say she should by it.

My wifes first bike was her 984, and while the XB is an entirely different beast than the 600's, most of you would be saying the same things you are here if you'd been told it was her first bike.

In many ways the XB V-Twin with it's clunky gearbox is harder to ride for a newbie than a smooth powered 600.

I think it all depends on personality type (is she easily flustered, confused), confidence, and good instruction.

I hope she likes her new bike and becomes another member of our two wheeled smiling community.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 05:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sean,
That's hitting below the belt, calling me a "gentleman". : [
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Johncr250
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 06:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I agree with Charlie,

The low end torque of an XB can provide a very jerkie ride to a newbie especially at low speeds. Combine that with turns, heavy clutch pull, and you could have problems.

While IF, you can treat the throttle with respect 600`s and literbikes have very smooth powerbands.
As well as being very light and easy to turn.

So buy the 600, BUT:

I would recommend before taking the 600 out, spend some time on a dirtbike learning how to work the front, rear brakes while turning and shifting as well as learning how steering and body imputs make a change directions.

Practice this in a low stress envirnment like a trail where there are no SUV`s with drivers talking on cellphone or taxi cabs.
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Rick_a
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 06:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I believe she is influenced by her peers toward the purchase, as well as being influenced by the style of the machine and the culture surrounding the repli-racer set. She has a reputation for being a bit of a "bully" driver. How that would equate to a motorcycle, I don't know...but I do know that the way I used to drive, is the way I ride.
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Dino
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 07:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Rocket,

I don't discount your contention that there may be some newbies who are cool-minded and cautious enough to be fairly safe on a 600RR. I would say two things though: (1) I believe those are the exception to the rule, (2) Your friend that bought the 600 doth not a statistical sample make.

Which side of the aisle does Rick's friend belong on? Are you qualified to say? If I'm not qualified to say, and I'm not, I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.
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Rocketman
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Then my friend, as in the time old adage 'throw caution to the wind'.

Rocket
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Dino
Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 12:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I thought the old adage was "don't pee into the wind".
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Dino
Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 12:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Unless you use an EZ-Leaker, of course. Then it's okay.
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