| Author | Message | ||
     Budo |
Yeah, we have been begging for a 'real' motor since the beginning of the tube frame days. Especially since the V-rod, why not let Porsche develop a motor for the Buell? Do you think Porsche could build a LC8 or Suzuki SV type motor, you betcha they could, well why don't HD do that. Well, because they don't want to. HD has a five, or ten, or twenty year plan for Buell and it does not include a 100hp plus at the rear wheel motor. I am not talking about the claimed 101 hp at the crank motor like my 1998 S1W which dynoed at 78hp. I mean at the rear wheel, where the rubber meets the road, the only place it matters. Sure that would attract hords of new owners and sure that might woo back previous tube frame guys like me but it ain't gonna happen. Yes it would propell the Buell into the company of the Ducati Monster and Aprilla Tuono and Suzuki SV1000, and it would justify the price point of the bike, if it remained at $10,999, but it is not going to happen. Simply because HD has a plan for Buell and that ain't it. Buell builds and sells a few bikes, as many as they want to, and that is what they want to do. If the XB does not fill your requirements then you need to go elseware, I did. I waited for six years for Buell to build the bike I really wanted and it is not gonna happen in my life time if ever. I got tired of people telling me that I don't need 100 plus hp. Listen up folks, you don't get to tell me what I need. No one needs a motorcycle, it is about what I want and what I will spend my money on and the XB is not it. If the XB, in whatever flavor suits you, good for you, if not then move on, I did. Excuse me while I go get another double shot latte. | ||
| Mikej |
Budo, Do you have access to the 5/10/20 year plans? If so could you post or email a copy? It would be interesting to know the "inside" plans for Buell from a Corporate viewpoint. I don't sit on their board of directors, and I don't have an invite to their long term planning sessions, and I haven't sat in a booth at Denny's within earshot of any Corporate access people in some time now, so I have no real idea of what their actual plans are.  | ||
| Outrider |
Budo...That must be some latte. From a corporate perspective you are beginning to sound a lot like me. LOL Note: this comment has nothing to do specifically with HDI/HD/BMC. It is simply a function of strategic long range planning that is generic among corporations that want to survive. | ||
| Bomber |
Budo -- you did the right thing, man, you found what you wanted, and bought it! good decision you're correct, in that only you can decide what you want/need/can afford . . . enjoy the FZ -- it's a great bike | ||
| Budo |
None of us here, I think, actually know what HD has in mind, but consider this. The Suzuki SV650 was a runaway sucess and people asked for a SV1000. Guess what Suzuki gave them one. Never mind that they have not sold that well. Back in the day of the tube frame bikes we were all begging for more powerfull motors. Just look at the after market, Pammy and Nallen and those guys. So Buell/HD responded with the XB9, and then the XB12 which made less power than the tube frames and cost more! What kind of marketing is that? I guess my point is this. No one doubts the financial resources of the motor company. If they wanted to build a 'real' motor then they would. For whatever reason they don't and after so many years I really don't see that they would bother. The Buell line is doing whatever HD has in mind for it to. Or at least they think it is. There is nothing that we can say, HD is going to do whatever it wants too. Since I am not going to live forever (and I don't intend to die waiting for HD to build the bike I want) I got something else. | ||
| Bomber |
Budo -- you are right, of course -- every company responds to perceived customer demands the best way they know how, so that they can, to use the phrace currently in vogue, "maximize shareholder value." in other words, how can we make our profits highest with the least expenditure of funds? same thing you do when planning pruchases and investments, only on a much larger scale. so far, anyways, while Buell may not be building the bike you want, it seems to be working out pretty well for both Buell and HD what kind of marketing is that? pretty good, would be the answer according to sales numbers. a case can always be made that the Iron Tower could make even MORE money if they built the bike or your dreams (or mine, for that matter), but there is no being more conservative on earth than a business person who is hitting their targets . . . changing anyting may alter that in the negative direction -- if anything, it's a miracle that HD bought Buell in the first place | ||
| Outrider |
but there is no being more conservative on earth than a business person who is hitting their targets . . . Thanks John. Now I need to clean the coffee out of my keyboard again. Ever tell you about the compensation package I had that took money away from me when I exceeded my annual goals. Sales came in based on my forecasts, not theirs, and they shipped the product without incurring any additional expenses or inconvenience. They just had a Profit Plan to work to and that meant I got stung in the process. Hurts to get penalized for doing too good a job! | ||
| Steve_a |
>>So Buell/HD responded with the XB9, and then the XB12 which made less power than the tube frames and cost more!<< Since when did a stock XB12 make less power than any stock tube frame bike? | ||
| Daves |
And both the XB9 and XB12 are less than a X1 was. Dave | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Hopefully they will never build another one like this | ||
| Outrider |
Ewwww...That sucks!!! | ||
| José_quiñones |
From a press release issued by Proton Team KR: PROTON PREPARES FOR DOUBLE TASK IN PORTUGAL Proton Team KR go to next weekend's Portuguese GP one rider short, but with something extra in the back of the team transporters. As well as their own continuous modifications, and in addition to a full complement of new Dunlop tyres, the team will also have a Proton KR MotoGP chassis fitted with the Austrian KTM V4 MotoGP engine. Certain to be the object of much intense interest, the hybrid test machine will not be seen in action until tests after the Portuguese race. The race, 11th of 16 rounds and the last in the European season, will see Nobuatsu Aoki riding alone on the regular England-designed and built KR V5. Team-mate Kurtis Roberts will not race, still recuperating from injuries suffered in a qualifying crash at the previous round at Brno Estoril, slowest track of the year, gives the team promising prospects for a repeat of Aoki's points-scoring ride at that Czech Republic GP. Even though a hoped-for engine upgrade is still under development at Banbury, tests after the Brno race yielded a significant lap-time improvement, with a new generation of tyres from the team's partners Dunlop. But GP racing insiders will be looking beyond the race itself, towards the tests of the KTM engine on the following days. The V4 engine was built for the Austrian factory's own planned MotoGP project, which they later cancelled, but engine development was continued. Until now, running has been limited to the test bench and dynamometer: this is the first time the powerful V4 has been fitted in a motorcycle chassis. In fact, the hybrid has already run - in secret tests last Saturday at Brno. Nobu Aoki ran some 20 "shake-down" laps, to identify niggles that might spoil the first full test at Estoril. "We wanted to blow out any cobwebs and see if there were any problems - to check that it shifted gear, didn't overheat and so on," explained team manager Chuck Aksland. "There were a few little problems, but first impressions were good." The main aim was to get the bike ready for the Estoril tests, he continued, which were a joint project between KTM and Proton Team KR. "The aim is to assess the potential of the engine, which is of interest to KTM and ourselves," said Aksland. "But at this stage there's no policy on any future with the engine. It could be an option ... but we just don't know yet," he said. Kurtis Roberts suffered left elbow and wrist fractures in a wet-weather qualifying crash at Brno, and though he did not require surgery, it was decided late last week that he should remain in the USA to recuperate for the next round, the Japanese GP at Motegi in two weeks time. "It was too late to consider a replacement," said Aksland. After the Portuguese GP and the following tests, Proton Team KR join their MotoGP rivals for the start of a long-haul extravaganza: Japan, Qatar, Malaysia and Australia, before returning to Valencia for the final round at the end of October. NOBU AOKI - REASONS TO BE OPTIMISTIC After Brno we stayed on to test a lot of new tyres, both front and rear. Dunlop had new combinations of construction and compound. I found at least three tyres that I liked, and we were getting lap times one second fast. It seems Dunlop may have found a direction of development, and that means I can be optimistic about this race. The first ride with the KTM engine was very interesting, and I am looking forward to testing it after the race, but first I want to finish in the points again, like Brno. | ||
| Budo |
A strong running Thunderstormed tube frame might make numbers around 84~85hp. Several of the bike mags have dynoed a XB12 and the highest number, if memory serves was 84hp. However the XB9 came first, and it makes much less power than the XB12, so..... But you guys are correct HD/Buell knows exactly what they are doing and they must be happy because they just keep on doing it, ignoring what many of us have begged for, for many years. But hey, who am I, what do I know, I am only the consumer. | ||
| Budo |
I had thought that by now, a insider would have leaked the stragety HD has for Buell. Many of us have speculated that HD is using Buell to eventually convert younger riders to a Dyna or Softtail. I don't really see that happenning. Some folks in fact have come from a big twin to a Buell, at least in the tube frame days. Blake or Court might be able to shed some light on that for us. Hint, hint. | ||
| Daves |
Stock XB12, in various magazine write ups have been 89-93 Hp stock. In out dyno testing we get about 89-90 out of stock ones. Yep, the 9s have less Hp but also weigh less and rev up quicker and were less money than X1s, handle better and break less. Dave | ||
| M1combat |
I thought it was 93HP... 84 ft/lbs maybe? | ||
| Court |
>>>>>>So Buell/HD responded with the XB9, and then the XB12 which made less power than the tube frames and cost more!<< That is inaccurate information. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Uhm...my XB12 dynoed at 94RWHP....on 2 different Dynos. | ||
| M1combat |
SportRider has the 12 at 99.3HP ATM, but that seems a little optimistic to me... Maybe they drilled the airbox and removed the snorkel? Maybe it's a race kitted 12? | ||
| BadS1 |
They weigh less???Just 10 lbs. no twinkies ding dongs or HOHO'S for a month and ya can call it even. | ||
| Outrider |
Anybody seen the Duke 990 since Alan Cathcart's review in the December 2003 issue of Motorcyclist? Just wondering... | ||
| Daves |
10lbs between the XB9 and XB12 but I was comparing the XB to tube frame bikes. Dave | ||
| Budo |
I had to go check my reference materal which is the pile of magazines on my bathroom floor. Motorcycle Consumer News November 2003 number 11 volume 34. 2004 Buell XB12S 85.4hp and 70.5 lb.ft. October 2002 Number10 volume 33, 2003 Buell XB9R, 75.2hp, 59.9lb.ft. Cycle World December 2002, Buell XB9s 76.4 hp 58.9 lb.ft. So can anyone tell me if the XB12S and XB12R are in a different state of tune or if the power output should be the same? I demoed a XB12S and found it to be very underpowered compared to my old 1998 S1W which had Nallin Stage 1 heads and Hurricane pistons. Perhaps a unfare comparison. But all of this is off the subject. Buell has not and I am convinced will not build a bike I want so I got something else. The XB's to me are overpriced and underpowered and of course they feel like a pocket bike to me, I am 5'11". But consider this, go look up a Suzuki SV1000 nakked or a Aprilla Tuono. Slap Buell on the tank, I would have to have one! All of the problems I had with my bike, the dealership (Bumpas HD/Buell of Memphis tn who blows) all of the problems I had with Buell customer service, I would buy that bike. But, it ain't gonna happen because Buell is not going to build it. Why should they? They are doing just fine doing what they do and there is nothing wrong with that.  | ||
| M1combat |
LOL! "But consider this, go look up a Suzuki SV1000 nakked or a Aprilla Tuono. Slap Buell on the tank, I would have to have one!" Then go buy one and slap Buell on the tank... Some people  . I'll still pass you in the corners . Last weekend I saw S2s and S3s (not to mention M2's and S1's and at least two XB's) harassing Aprilias (Falco's and Tuono's I think) on the back roads of southern California. I was waived by twice by two different Aprilias. Go buy one please. LOL | ||
| Budo |
Good advice M1, but you don't get it. I want Buell to build that bike. But I already took your advice and bought a FZ1, thanks anyway. What is the difference between having Aprilla or Buell on the tank? Well Erik is a living legend and it is way cool to have his name on the tank. That is one of the differences. I am not concerned about who passes who in the corners. All of the bikes you mentoned have performance way beyond my abilities. I ride my ride at my pace and don't worry who passes me. When I owned my S1W, a club ride was led by a guy on a Goldwing with his girlfriend on the back and I had to work real hard to keep up. That really underscored the fact to me that it is the rider more than the machine. As always YMMV. Yeah, some people (Message edited by budo on September 01, 2004) | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
That really underscored the fact to me that it is the rider more than the machine. Sadly not everyone can grasp that concept. They think since they own an XB that they are Cicotto or Higbee. | ||
| Dbird29 |
"Sadly not everyone can grasp that concept. They think since they own an XB that they are Cicotto or Higbee." Dyna says it it must be true! Couldn't I be Rossi? Please? | ||
| Jmartz |
Budo: I have suffered the disappointment you describe concerning this brand. When the X1 replaced the S1 with 50 lbs. of extra weight, and when the XB came out with a repackaged Sportster motor with less displacement and power I went and bought a 2002 R1. I still have my S1. I don't ride it much and when I do I certainly feel its limitations. Yes it has stellar low end and it excels in close quarters but when the road opens up (and this a wide open country) that slow and low revving 1957 motor leaves me in the back of the pack. | ||
| Daves |
You can't be Rossi, only Yamaha riders can. Dave | ||
| Daves |
Oh and Higbee has been racing a Suzuki this year. Dave |
