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Rick_a
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 02:21 pm: | 
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As many times as I've been cut off and nearly run over by cars, I can't say I'm too hurt by it. That never gets on the news, does it? It's happened while riding with my wife or kid in the back seat as well. All I get for consolation is the look on someones face as I flick them off.
•••• happens. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 02:58 pm: |
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The inverse is, I am opposed to any legislation that does anything more than make the individual more responsible for their actions.
Bikes, Guns, Cars, etc. ad nauseum, are not the problem. The individual in control of them is. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 03:19 pm: |
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Responsibility for what one does is what I'm trying to teach my boys.
I don't want to have them learning the responsibility of motorcycling on a GSXR1000 though.
You point is well taken though.
How about graduated license if you are under 21? |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 03:20 pm: |
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Or is that the slippery slope? |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 03:38 pm: |
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Slippery slope, it's easier to die on a 50cc bike than on a 1000cc bike since with the 50cc bike you'll be riding closer to the limits of the bike than on the 1000cc bike, and everyone should know that the closer to the edge you ride the more likely that one day you'll find yourself over that edge.
I try to ride and teach agressive defense. Ride defensively but a clear grasp of an agressive escape response if necessary. Hard to do when you're already at WOT.
Plus with graduated licensing schemes, how do you qualify the metrics that someone is ready to upgrade to the higher level. Time or mileage is not always a good indicator or measurement of skillsets.
Personal accountability is the only answer that really works. Plea bargaining is the cancer in the system, and lawsuits, and plaid sportcoats, and other unrelated issues and aspects and trends and whatnot. 'scuse me now while I go get lost in thought on the subject.... |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 03:53 pm: |
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Glitch...By merit of not wanting them to learn on a GSXR1000, you are demonstrating "Parental Responsibility." Which is something that has gradually gone downhill in America in since WWII." Is what happens when you let someone else raise your kids due to your own career and social priorities.
As for those no longer under parental control, hopefully they will remember how they learned to crawl and walk before they were able to run. Heck, the educational system works on the same principle. Every year the same courses only in greater depth as time goes on.
(Message edited by Outrider on August 31, 2004) |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 04:13 pm: |
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Yeah ya'll are right.
I understand completely.
Don't get me started on schools.
My ex tried to let the school system raise my oldest boy.
Ended up in special ed since 3rd grade, staying at a third grade math and science level.
He's turning 15 Thursday.
After living with me for a year and a half he's now in college prep biology, 9th grade level math, and reads on a college level.
I guess I need to worry about my own and let the squids thin themselves out.
<humorous anticdote>
My youngest son went from crawling to running, still have not been able to get him to even try walking. He knows not fear, which scares the he!! out of Ann. |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 04:20 pm: |
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As long as he has a firm grasp on "consequences of his actions" then fear need not be a worry.
Buy them small bikes, 125cc dirt bikes, 250cc street bikes, and when they outgrow them park their first bikes in the back corner of the garage. Eventually they'll thank you for saving them as they one day want to return to the simpler fun of smaller bikes.
Interactive education is always better than simply handing them a map to the school and sending them on their way with a pocket full of lunch money. You're doing good Glitch, your kids will thank you many times later in life. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 05:01 pm: |
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I guess I need to worry about my own and let the squids thin themselves out.
Unfortunately, in the process they do more harm for the rest of us than good. Everything from bad Public Relations to High Enforcement Zones (double fines, etc) to killing themselves and others.
Interesting dilemma...I find myself wanting to hire more law enforcement officers. Heck, why not, America needs the jobs and we don't need the grief the irresponsible in all walks of life cause.
Ewwww...I still don't believe I said that. My luck only the responsible will be caught making minor infractions and the gross violators will still go free. Catch 22??? |
Doughnut
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 05:10 pm: |
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I find myself wanting to hire more law enforcement officers.
Preach it Brother! |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 06:16 pm: |
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Eventually they'll thank you for saving them as they one day want to return to the simpler fun of smaller bikes.
My Honda mini trail is in a corner of a garage in Alabama. But my uncle knows what it's worth.
Catch 22??? I see we're in the same boat, start bailing... |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 07:22 pm: |
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Think I will just give up, sell out, buy a nonproductive farm in some climate I can ride year round and scrape out a fun dirt course with major elevation changes and rent out the barn as a hostel for dual purpose riders.
But first, I need to find a lawyer that can draw up an iron clad hold harmless contract. LOL |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 07:28 pm: |
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I love the Suches GA area.
I've often thought of doing something similar.
Land prices and local noise laws are hard to overcome though, not to mention the tree huggers that would burn your barn down in protest only to start a forest fire, and leave you with the blame and the bill... |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 07:56 pm: |
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Just a thought, folks, but we are preaching to the choir, here. The only thing resonable is to contact the various media outlets in the St. Louis area and send them a reasoned, factual letter or E-mail stating that we are sportbikers and DO NOT condone their actions, and hoping that someone w/knowledge of the situation will come forward (including raising their right hand in court) so the person/s responsible can be held fully responsible. Perhaps a member in the area can provide addresses and names? And if the media chooses not to use/air those responses, shame on them; we tried. IMHO |
Kevyn
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 09:05 pm: |
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The Saint Louis Post Dispatch is leading the charge...
last I heard, it was the 'chase' vehicle that cut in front of the SUV that proceeded to T-bone another SUV...
please consider that the SUV driver was only 16, probably really inexperienced at driving and the occupants spilled across the shoulder were not wearing seat belts---in essence defeating the whole purpose of seat belts, air bags and SUV construction...
Instead of legislating any new motorcycle prohibitions, consider more driver training; perhaps even prohibiting drivers under 18 from operating SUV's or any vehicle with more than say 90 HP... Ya, right that will ever happen. |
Josh_
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 12:53 am: |
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Kev, The Posts followup (I linked it above) stated there was no chase vehicle and witnesses reported the bikers were well in advance of traffic.
The 16-yr old and his friends in the car were apparantly following/watching the stunters. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 08:34 am: |
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The only thing resonable is to contact the various media outlets in the St. Louis area and send them a reasoned, factual letter or E-mail stating that we are sportbikers and DO NOT condone their actions, and hoping that someone w/knowledge of the situation will come forward (including raising their right hand in court) so the person/s responsible can be held fully responsible. Perhaps a member in the area can provide addresses and names?
Now that bears repeating!
Incidentally, the AMA does this sort of thing. Sometimes reactive and sometimes proactive. How many of you belong? It doesn't cost much and it does help our cause. |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 12:45 am: |
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"The story blaming motorcyclists doing stunts on a highway for setting off an SUV-against-SUV collision is not as simple as initially portrayed by news outlets..."
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=10419 |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 08:57 am: |
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Very few news reports remain or are as they are initially reported. |
Darthane
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 09:37 am: |
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It makes no difference.
To us, perhaps the distinction is important. To the public, the motorcycles caused the problem, end of story (and in truth, they did, even if they didn't cut the guy off - think about it). I see that attitude every day on the way to work and back. People in general act like I'm some degenerate scumbag just because I'm on a sportbike, even though *I'M* signalling, obeying the speedlimit, not weaving in an out of traffic, etc., while they in their Suburbans and Excursions endanger everyone else on the road by driving inattentively or just like assholes in general.
Bottom line is, those fools should NOT be doing that kind of •••• on public roads. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. They should be tossed in jail and their bikes impounded. |
Shanetbolt
| | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 01:46 pm: |
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We live in the land of the free but ask yourself are we really free?
Look over the big pond (Europe) and you will find roads with no speed limit and no drinking age. How can they live that way you may ask?
I would guess they grow up to respect certain things. Sure no matter what rules you have in place there will always be accidents. I believe the answer is not to put more laws and rules in place, remember we supposedly live in the land of the free. Free to buy the biggest fastest bike weather one can actually handle it or not, free to buy the biggest gas guzzling SUV so one can drive to pick up groceries. We have to be better than the next guy and that is what gets us in trouble.
Just my 2 cents worth. |
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