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Outrider
| | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 09:33 am: | 
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Darthane...The FJR's are really sweet and you can't go wrong with it. Local or long distance, it will make you smile for a long time and it looks really nice as well.
Well, at least I overheard that at the local Sushi House last night.  |
Bluelightning
| | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 09:47 am: |
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I used to have a Pontiac Catalina 2+2 Convertible. Never understood the 2+2 designation.
2 people in the front and 2 in the back maybe???? |
Outrider
| | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 11:35 am: |
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Interesting. Could fit 3 in the back but it was reported the person in the middle was miserable.
Was just like a Buell. Not the fastest thing in town but could tear a set of tires off in a few runs. Thus, I nicknamed it "The Lead Sled." LOL |
Swampy
| | Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 10:20 pm: |
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Ok, I haven't been following this thread but......
I was up at my moms house on the lake and my youngest sister had some friends up, one of whom is some automotive engineer....You know the kind, can't stop talking about himself and all of his self important projects...anyways...when his wife with the belly button ring and tattoo on her back finally goes inside I started paying attention to this guy. He starts talking about going to some engineers banquet or something and meeting Willie G. and how he was feeling out of place with all the metrosexual engineers at this little get together and starts talking with him.....anyways this guy said that his engineer buddy who introduced him to Willie G. does carbon fiber frames for bicycles and that he had something going on with the mothership with carbon fiber frames. Sorry to spoil the suprise maybe. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 10:26 am: |
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Long term R&D doesn't amaze me and there are CF parts available from both Buell and the Aftermarket.
I guess this doesn't arouse my curiosity as much as an improvement in the powertrain. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 11:34 am: |
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Just to satisfy my personal inquisitation....
How long, from the moment a bulb goes on in Erik's head (or appears as a "great ides that Buell must do") do you think it takes to get from THAT point to Dave's showroom?
Do you think this varies twinxt manufactuers?
If so, why?
Court |
Outrider
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 12:55 pm: |
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If truly a "great idea that Buell must do," I wouldn't think it would take much time at all to implement and get to market compliments of the nature of Buell's operation and dependence on outsourcing.
Considering this, the only interference could be logistics and possible existing contracts and that could be negated by the introduction of a new model which most likely would be nothing more than a rolling change on the assembly like. Evidence, the classic line on manufacturer's brochures, price list, etc., that states the manufacturer retains the right to change or discontinue products without notice.
Still, all of the above references Buell and not Harley Davidson. The report I commented about referenced an observation made of Willie G. at an engineering function and there was no reference to either HD or BMC made.
I don't think it is safe to assume that either will be introducing a CF framed motorcycle just because Willie G. was seen in the company of a manufacturer of CF bicycle frames. Granted, it may be in R&D, but there are other current applications for CF parts that have immediate sales potential.
Now, assuming that HDI is researching the use of CF frames or frame sub-assemblies, I feel it is logical that Buell would derive the most benefit from it in the short term and that Harley would in the long term.
With either company, once they are far enough along with the hand off between R&D and Manufacturing Engineering, I feel it is safe to assume that either company could intro the product in a NY Minute.
Regardless whether it is HD or Buell, we will know when the time is right as neither is known for letting the cat out of the bag prematurely.
This is purely speculation, but perhaps the time is nearing with the recent announcement of a new Head Honcho at Buell. Still, an engineering project of this magnitude would have had to have been part of an ongoing R&D effort.
Thank you Cannondale. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 01:38 pm: |
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A couple quick comments....good discussion.
The "outsourcing" may not be the time saver you think. Remember than even when Showa makes a shock it takes, possibly, as long as 2 years of Japanese engineers coming to the USA to coordinate specs, testing and validation. It's not a simple go the the "motorcycle superpartsmarket" and pick one up. (that's another topic we can talk about sometime)
After, in fact part or, the validation is passing muster with the Feds. Uncle Sam babysits your butt and accordingly if your intend to manufacture/sell in the USA, he has to give you the blessing. "Are the filiments of those rear turn signals >14" Center to center of the filments.
Then it's off to the Buell homologation team. Remember that "global ecomony" stuff? Well, Uncle Sam is not your only Uncle these days. We've got Tuv to contend with...ust un filmentzen at leasten 39cm centerible to cetnerzible". Then the Australians.."GDay Mate..don't even think about importing that motorcycle is there is more than 12" between the filiments of those rear turn signals". You get the idea.
In 1998 you thought there were only 5 models being built....more like 27. Now you see why.
Next if's off to see Lars. We have a GREAT idea...can you even BUY this stuff to make it? Buell has previously outrun the technical supply chain.
Finally, it's (or used to be) our old pal 1313. Go put all the steps to build the new carbon fiber buell with the hydrogen fired engine in the proper order, write the assembly procedure, develope assembly training and hook up with the boys (and girls Ms. Debbie) in Engineering and make certain nothing in those procedures will compromise the integrity of the parts being installed (what you jackhammer the turn signals on???) Oh yeah, pay close attention to that serial order constraint. In Erik Buells world EVERY part buys a ticket. Each piece will likely be called on to perform several functions. It may be a footpeg, but on the way to footpegging, it's also going to be a shifter mount. Install these things in the wrong order at your own peril.
Uttttttttttttttttt oh......here's comes Ms. Levine!. . . everybody duck, she wants to know "can we afford to make this, given the now known materials, marginal assy labor and marginal revenue. We, after all, are in the BUSINESS of building motorcycles. It's fun, but we also depend on it to train junior about DNA and the home of the Badgers. It MUST% make commercial sense.
That, boys and girls, is just a glimpse. I've said before and am given to question if I need to revise my number, "building the motorcycle is only about 12% and it's the EASY 12%"
For the record, Buell raised lots of eyebrows with it's "time to market" on the 1996 S-1 Lightning. I *THINK* that Toyota (perhaps their competition) did something similar with a car once.
Ride safe, lean more and smile much....
Court |
Outrider
| | Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 02:32 pm: |
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Whew...I had to read that a number of times before I got the real gist of it.
Yep, you just defined a good portion of the process from initial concept through shipment of a finished product with humor. It just took me few readings to get beyond the entertainment stage. LOL
I believe outsourcing is a good thing that provides manufacturer's of finished goods greater flexibility where continual emphasis is placed on new and improved products. I don't see it as a time saver simply because of all the R&D, Compliance and Manufacturing issues.
What outsourcing does do is bring technical expertise to the project and saves the manufacturer of the finished product the investment in space, machinery, tooling and operator training. Then again, it also places a greater burden on inspection of outsourced goods to maintain quality control.
Will take your word on the 12% issue. Regardless of the actual percentage, it is truly small. In my career, the manufacturing part was the mundane daily grind, almost akin to police work. The excitement was making a dream come true from the initial concept scribbled on a cocktail napkin to selling it through the channels of distribution.
Still, it takes a well run operation from top to bottom in order to accomplish it all in a timely and profitable manner. |
Charlieboy6649
| | Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 01:39 am: |
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Couldn't the new design implement and be designed around the characteristics of outsourced items already in production. Like forks? |
Outrider
| | Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 02:35 am: |
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Could be anything or nothing.
Based on the original post, Willie G. is only guilty of being in the company of a CF bicycle frame manufacturer. Schmoozing in environments like that is where a lot of great ideas come from.
Would think the rest is pure speculation. Albeit a nice concept. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 09:14 am: |
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>>>What outsourcing does do is bring technical expertise to the project and saves the manufacturer of the finished product the investment in space, machinery, tooling and operator training.
And then there are case studies like Verlucchi that took an extraodrinary effort of the part of the team at Buell. In some (and this is not bad) cases when a firm outsources it becomes incumbent on them (Buell in the instant case) to bring the outsourcess standards of quality up to that of the product. I'll suggest that Verluccki benefitted more from Buell, than the converse and leave it at that.
>>>Couldn't the new design implement and be designed around the characteristics of outsourced items already in production. Like forks?
Charlie, good question. You noted my (that's another topic we can talk about sometime) comment above.
You make a good point and Buell engineers work hard to know where to be innovative and where to NOT reinvent a wheel that is as round as it will ever be. Case in point, take a look at the controls on your 1998 Buell and those on the Ducati models that year. There are identical, save for one detail (a Buell shirt to anyone who can name the detail) and came right out of the C.E.V. catalog. Now look at any 1999 Buell...note that NOW the controls are identical to many Japanese bikes. Italy and Japan excel in motorcycle parts.
The 12% comment is an illustration based on nothing other than the need to make a point. But, you are dead on when you talk about watching the development.
In the world of Buell it even gets better than bar napkins and involves a wildly enthusiastic person waving their hands, describing a shape, a material, a relationshio, an interface or an idea. After lunch the fellow with the surf guitar and pignose amp, puts his axe in the gigbag and sets about painting the "air picture" just described. Passion defines Buell. I've seen the bearded wonder work until the wee hours the night before leaving on vaction to ensure the idea was painted before he left.
It's also a "Buell moment" to watch Erik wave his hands, make shapes and explain to Ti the way a curve on a BLAST should be.
I could go one and on but you get the point.
It's a wonderful world.
Court |
Outrider
| | Posted on Monday, September 06, 2004 - 11:18 am: |
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To support the cost effectiveness of outsourcing and not having to reinvent the wheel, I just purchased both left and right hand switch assemblies at Hal's. It was a no-brainer as Buell's list price for the pair with the harness was $54.95.
I figured that was cheap at twice the price. Now knowing that they are "off-the-shelf" parts, I wonder what the import manufacturers list them for? A comparison would be interesting as both import and domestic manufacturers buy them from the same source, ship them to the US and warehouse them here.
From personal experience, I have always maintained the low cost of replacement parts is one of Buell's strong suits. Unfortunately, I didn't start experiencing the benefit until a little over two years ago. LOL |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 04:42 am: |
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>>>>Unfortunately, I didn't start experiencing the benefit until a little over two years ago. LOL
Hmmmm.....how to get you graduated from Buell purgatory?....Hmmmm...buy some extra parts, make up for your lost time and pledge not to let it happen again!
Court |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - 09:18 pm: |
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Court...Graduated from Buell Purgatory and am doing prep work to enter Buell High.
Hopefully, they will let me sign up for a shop class or two. If I complete those successfully, perhaps I won't need to keep buying all those extra parts. LOL
New Buell Slogan:
"Buell...Providing hope for the Mechanically Declined." |
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